My 383 block tested good but it needs to be decked and bored. Now what?

[bull]

I got some advice from you guys back in Sept. '05 but some things have changed. I decided to retire my original block and use the bare '69 383 block I bought a few days ago which tested good but is going to need to be decked and bored .030 over. After looking at my bleak funding situation I've decided to stick with the original heads and head bolts (provided the heads are rebuildable) as well as the stock connecting rods, crank and rocker arm assembly off my old engine.

The rebuilder said he uses Civilight (?) pistons? Anyone ever heard of those? I did a search and couldn't find anything on them but I don't know how to spell it. Other than using a Mopar Performance HP cam and having new valve springs to match it I plan on going stock with the exception of an HP intake, two HP exhaust manifolds (it came stock with one), a new 4bbl carb and a tti x-pipe exhaust setup. I know Ron and Chryco like the Holley (Ron mentioned the 770 street avenger w/vac secondary) so I'll probably go with that. I might run a stock HP 4bbl manifold too but I don't have one so I might upgrade that while I'm at it. Ron suggested I use a vintage dp4b edelbrock dual plane intake rather than a stocker.

Plan B: have the shop build me a balanced short block and rebuild my heads and then I take it from there. But then I will probably have to forfeit their 12 mo, 12k mile warranty (which may be moot since I doubt the engine will run right away).

So, what do you think?

[firefighter3931]

Sounds good Curtis.  I prefer a forged piston over the Silvolite's....speedpro makes a nice piston for the 383. 

Have the rods reconditioned and use arp rodbolts for added strength. Crankwork will depend on wear....you might get by with a simple polish job. I would have the assembly balanced...it will run/idle a lot smoother and last longer. The 70-71 cast iron intake is descent if you don't want to go with the DP4B. Stock heads are fine with a 383ci as long as they're fresh with a good valvejob.

With the factory ex. manifolds ; you want a cam with short overlap and a wide centerline. Lunati  makes an off the shelf "VooDoo" grind that would be perfect for this build. It makes lots of vacuum so tuning will be easy and if you're running power brakes there will be lots of pedal. This cam will have a slight lopey sound but nothing radical. 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60302&N=700+4294925232+4294924497+4294887637+400421+4294908078+4294887485+4294840053+115&autoview=sku


A 750 vac secondary carb is all you really need....my preference is for the holley in this type of application.



Ron

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Bull, How much is the rebuilder you talked to going to charge you, and what exactly is included in the price?

Some of the rebuilder shops do a good job for dirt cheap - stock to mild builds, - but you will need to check each out for yourself. I was in the same position as you several years ago with my truck, and I visited all the "cheap" rebuilder shops I could find.

Some were so bad from a cleanliness/equipment standpoint, that they couldn't have paid me to rebuild my engine (I was in the middle of a divorce; living in an apartment; so doing my own work was totally out of the question). Fortunately I ran across a couple of shops that were amazingly squared away as far as cleanliness, equipment, professionalism/knowledgability, so I chose my favorite (which was only $200.00 more than the cheapest), and figured I could always re-do it myself in a couple of years. But I am still running my truck on the same engine - flawlessly -, and expect to do so for many years to come, as I don't know how it could work better than it does/has.

My opinion is to find someone that seems to know what they are talking about, let them use the parts that they know work together, and I'm sure you will be more than happy. If you can afford to upgrade the rod bolts, I would, as they were the weakest link in all the stock Mopar engines (But keep in mind that you are not having a race motor built), and forgo decking, line honing/boring, And let your conversations with the builder determine if you think balancing would be beneficial.

A good rebuilder will offer a warrantee based on millage, not time (6,000 to 12,000 miles was what I found to be the norm), and you should be good to go for the least amount of money. -- Use your available money for the motor, and add whatever intake/exhaust, carb, you want at a later date.

I can't guarantee that this is the best way to go, but it was a lifesaver for me when I was in a broke and desperate position. You can always upgrade/improve/re-do everything when your finances are better, but as I said, my truck motor is still working flawlessly.

[squeakfinder]

Sounds like your going threw the same thing I'm going thew wright now.
I think boring is pretty typical because the cylinder walls get tapered when they wear out. Going  030 over means you probably have a virgin block thats never been bored. When I pulled my 440 apart I found the number 30 allready stamped on the top of the pistons  and there was a wear lip on top of the cylinder walls.
So its got bored 060 over.

[bull]

Sounds like your going threw the same thing I'm going thew wright now.
I think boring is pretty typical because the cylinder walls get tapered when they wear out. Going  030 over means you probably have a virgin block thats never been bored. When I pulled my 440 apart I found the number 30 allready stamped on the top of the pistons  and there was a wear lip on top of the cylinder walls.
So its got bored 060 over.

That's exactly right. The block has the stock bore and the taper is around .009 +/- so they recommended a .030 over bore. The head decks are apparently a bit wavy too, thus the deck job. The block is very useable but it's too worn to remain stock. So is a 383 bored .030 over considered a 400?

Bull, How much is the rebuilder you talked to going to charge you, and what exactly is included in the price?

Some of the rebuilder shops do a good job for dirt cheap - stock to mild builds, - but you will need to check each out for yourself. I was in the same position as you several years ago with my truck, and I visited all the "cheap" rebuilder shops I could find.

Some were so bad from a cleanliness/equipment standpoint, that they couldn't have paid me to rebuild my engine (I was in the middle of a divorce; living in an apartment; so doing my own work was totally out of the question). Fortunately I ran across a couple of shops that were amazingly squared away as far as cleanliness, equipment, professionalism/knowledgability, so I chose my favorite (which was only $200.00 more than the cheapest), and figured I could always re-do it myself in a couple of years. But I am still running my truck on the same engine - flawlessly -, and expect to do so for many years to come, as I don't know how it could work better than it does/has.

My opinion is to find someone that seems to know what they are talking about, let them use the parts that they know work together, and I'm sure you will be more than happy. If you can afford to upgrade the rod bolts, I would, as they were the weakest link in all the stock Mopar engines (But keep in mind that you are not having a race motor built), and forgo decking, line honing/boring, And let your conversations with the builder determine if you think balancing would be beneficial.

A good rebuilder will offer a warrantee based on millage, not time (6,000 to 12,000 miles was what I found to be the norm), and you should be good to go for the least amount of money. -- Use your available money for the motor, and add whatever intake/exhaust, carb, you want at a later date.

I can't guarantee that this is the best way to go, but it was a lifesaver for me when I was in a broke and desperate position. You can always upgrade/improve/re-do everything when your finances are better, but as I said, my truck motor is still working flawlessly.

They quoted me $1,850-$2,250 for a long block rebuild (w/o balancing) depending on what I do with the cam and heads. If I do an HP cam and HP head rebuild = $2,250; stock cam and heads = $1,850. What is included is new bore and decking, new pistons (using original/refurbished connecting rods and crank) new cam, rebuilt heads, etc. Basically everything would be replaced or refurbished and I add on all the tin (valve covers, pan, etc.) and accessories (fuel pump, water pump, distributor, etc.) Balancing would cost an additional $225, and I do want it balanced for the reasons Ron stated above.

The place is not all that clean, and that does bother me. They also use the old-school method of balancing which is ok but I like the idea of a clean shop and modern equipment, though it might be hard to prove the results are any better. This particular shop has been around a long time but I do plan on looking and asking more before I decide who does it. At most right now I might have them bore and deck the block but I might just decide to take it as-is. they tanked it for three days before fluxing it so it should be nice and clean.

Thanks Ron! You said pretty much what I thought you would say. But why Speedpro? Any other options just as good like maybe KB or TRW, or are Speedpro made by TRW?

http://www.campbellenterprises.com/parts.php?type=search&query=fml2315f-30

[bull]

I found there is not a big selection for forged 383 pistons.
Here is a kit that has those pistons bull...not a bad price either

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/383-Dodge-Mopar-Chrysler-forged-engine-kit-TRW-pistons_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33620QQhashZitem320065493829QQihZ011QQitemZ320065493829QQrdZ1

Thanks Ranger, that looks pretty good. That compression rating seems lower than a lot I have seen before. Anyone know off the top of their heads what the typical stock compression is on an HP 383?

There's a link in my last post to another place that sells bore-size piston sets but I didn't see any kits there yet. 

[jerry]

maybe your original block is in better shape. i would take it to machine shop and spend the money doing it right.

[firefighter3931]

Thanks Ron! You said pretty much what I thought you would say. But why Speedpro? Any other options just as good like maybe KB or TRW, or are Speedpro made by TRW?

http://www.campbellenterprises.com/parts.php?type=search&query=fml2315f-30

Curtis, Speedpro is basicly the same piston as a TRW....i believe they were bought out. The piston you need is #L2315 and is available in a .030 overbore. Advertised compression with an open chamber head is 9:1 but you could bump that up a bit by milling the decks and heads a little. You really don't want more than 9.5:1 anyway with iron heads. That VooDoo cam will build lots of low end cylinder pressure and is ideal for a 9-9.5:1 compression build, inmo.


This combo of parts would make a nice little torque monster....lotsa fun with a 4 speed.   



Ron

[firefighter3931]

I found there is not a big selection for forged 383 pistons.
Here is a kit that has those pistons bull...not a bad price either

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/383-Dodge-Mopar-Chrysler-forged-engine-kit-TRW-pistons_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33620QQhashZitem320065493829QQihZ011QQitemZ320065493829QQrdZ1

That looks like a good deal. It also comes with the Speedpro 2315 pistons i was referring to in the previous post. 



Ron

[bull]

Thanks, Ron.

Bite me, Jerry.

[bull]

One other thing. How do machine shops generally react to the customer asking for a specific brand or type of internal part on a rebuild? I know it's tough to generalize but I wonder if some just refuse to do the work, won't warranty the work, etc. or do they just take it in stride?

[67_Dodge_Charger]

My experience with machine shops is that they will recommend what they know what works.  They are more experienced in knowing what works for what application purpose.  However the machine shop I talked to today is more than willing to use whatever namebrand stuff I think I need or want to use.  The most important thing is to fulfill the purpose of the application.  More HP so that you can burn the rubber off your tires.

Robert

[firefighter3931]

One other thing. How do machine shops generally react to the customer asking for a specific brand or type of internal part on a rebuild? I know it's tough to generalize but I wonder if some just refuse to do the work, won't warranty the work, etc. or do they just take it in stride?

Honestly, i can't imagine any shop having difficulty with you wanting to use a forged piston. If they have a problem then find another shop. 


Ron

[Chryco Psycho]

I agree /\
          | |

[Challenger340]

Bull
This may be off topic, but I don't think a "rebuilder" type shop, will warranty engines with anything but "their" rebuilder parts.
Dumb, I know, but maybe worth checking out.

Most of the "rebuilder" type shops belong to E.R.I. in Canada, or A.E.R.A. stateside ?  My shop is still an E.R.I. member, but declined any Insurance, because I don't use ANY rebuilder type parts.

Anyways, through those associations, "warranty" insurance is provided, which they may claim in whole or part, as part of their membership, if a failure arises.

Standard rules apply though, that being, NO AFTERMARKET performance parts, even though those parts are "superior" to the rebuilder crap !

Might be something to check out Bull,  just find another shop and "skip" the warranty.

[jerry]

they[the machine shops] love people like you.can't make up your mind and they just keep taking your $$$$$$$$$.so since you will have the price of a completly rebuilt 440 in your second block i would rebuild the first 383 2-bbl engine or a nice 440 that will scare you when you first drive it.hope everything works out for you and glad you ask for help. if you need any more advice on how to spend your money just ask. i like helping my friends.