The Body Shop Search Is On

[scottmiller]

After a negative reference about a body shop I was ready to drop my car off with, I decided to check out a couple of others in the area today.  It was a fun experience but has really left me with more questions than answers.

The first place I went to was a body shop I have done collision/ insurance covered work with on a few occasions in the past.  That shop was bought out and has transformed into a custom/restoration shop.  The new owners have been at it about 6 months and have a couple of good references to show.  Being "new", their prices are still reasonable... but the work they have done so far required relatively minor metal work.  My car needs quarter skin patches, trunk extensions. outer wheel wells and one floorboard replaced, plus some typical work on the sail panel at the bottom of the rear window.  The cars these guys have done didn't require quite that amount of metal work... just some lower quarter patches at most.  They also haven't done rotisserie and I would set them up with their first job of that type if I go that route in the end.  They are booked for about 8 months out, so by then they should have more references under their belt if I choose to go there. NOTE TO SELF, PROMISING LEAD.

The second place I went was the interesting one.  When refering to previous restorations, the reference point used by the body man was the number of gallons of mud the car took (and I am not kidding).  Based upon quantity, those vehicles would have been better off left as rusted out beaters running on Flintstone foot power through the holes in the floor pans.  I walked asking myself "Can a '54 Chevy really hold 8 gallons of bondo on it?  At roughly 8 lbs a gallon, that is 64 pounds of bondo!  Okay... Maybe he was exagerating... but why?".... NOTE TO SELF, DO NOT DRIVE BEHIND ANY '54 CHEVY's IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA.

-Scott

[BB1]

Keep us posted. 

[hemi-hampton]

What exactly was your Question. When you put 8 gallons of Bondo on a car at least 4 gallons of it gets sanded off. 4 gallons to get a car straight & even not a unusual thing. Now if this guys is bondoing over big rust holes not a good thing & stay away from anybody that does that. unless you want to keep redoing it every year. LEON.

[scottmiller]

I guess I really had no question in my original post... more of an observation about my experience in searching for body shops.  As everyone knows, finding one that does good work in a reasonable amount of time isn't easy on a restoration project.

Went to a third shop today.  They just took a Superbird off the rotisserie and were re-assembling it.  Very nice work on what was a rusty specimen to start with.  They also were working on a couple of Packard's amongst other various cars.  The shop has been in business for a long time and comes with many references... including some museums.  Needless to say they are priced a tad out of my price range... unless I skimp on some of the mechanical work I plan on.

I will bring the car to the body shop torn down to a rolling shell.  Brakes, suspension and steering column the only things left on the car.  I was hoping to get the bodywork done in the general neighborhood of 15k.  I am leaning towards rotisserie to get the undercarraige done up, everything sealed/painted and never have to worry about body work again (assuming no collisions).  It sounds like my ballpark figure is falling a bit short... I know many people here take on the bodywork themselves... but any input would be helpful.

Here some pictures of my car.  I am assuming partial and/or full quarter skins, outer wheel well, trunk extensions and a front driver side floorpan for metal work.
 

-Scott

[scottmiller]

More Pics.

-Scott

[BlueSS454]

This is one of the reasons I began tackling bodywork jobs myself.  If I had to pay me to do the work that I have done to the Charger, I could never afford it.  I have well over 500 hours into , probably closer to 700 and it's still over a month until it will be ready for paint.  I tore it down, put it on a rotisserie, had it sandblasted, replaced the floors, trunk floors & drop offs, outer wheelhouses, quarters, quarter selves, fabricated other pieces you can't get, etc.  Now I'm in the process of filling and blocking filling and blocking.  I've gone through 3 gallons of Evercoat Rage Gold so far working on the 4th and over half of that has been sanded off, swept up, and thrown in a trash can.  If I used a generous rate of $35 an hour multplied by the 700 hours I have in it, that's over $24,000, not includng the money I have in sheetmetal, sandpaper, filler, primer, and paint materials.  It adds up quickly.  The other problem is finding someone reputable enough to do the work.  I've been screwed twice so far, never again.

[340_duster]

Scott if you are any where near Michigan I would be more than happy to talk about restoring your car.I recently finished Blusmbl's 68 Charger, that you can see here at his web site

http://flickr.com/photos/blusmbl/sets/72057594083101141/

I also am working with runningman's 68 Charger.

[scottmiller]

340_Duster,

Wish I was near Michigan.  Your work looks really nice.  I am here in Northern Virginia, just outside of Washington DC.

-Scott

[TylerCharger69]

Bondo???   I'd move on to the next shop.   I, personally don't see anything wrong with fiberglassing some areas in order to cut down costs,  but if they were talking "Gallons" of bondo.....run away!!! For really small areas like dings or whatever,  Polyester filler works well....but I've used a product called "all-metal"  It's liquid like a filler, you add hardener to it,  but it takes more elbow grease to sand...but at least it's metal. When they referred to the process as "gallons of filler"   that tells me that instead of replacing pieces with patch panels,  they fill the whole thing in.  The difference between a quick, temporary fix,   and a restoration.    Keep looking.

[AutoRust]

Send it up here
www.autorust.com

I have a guy ( DMT transportation ) that will pick it up in the $5-600 range
All we do is rust repair. We hate using bondo, the most we do is some dura-glass at the seams.
We are not a traditional "body-shop". We do not do any collision repair, nor do we paint. Although we can and have subcontracted out paint work for some customers.
Look at some of our photos gallery's. We can fix all the structural stuff, hang rear quarters,trunk pans,floors,rear window areas,frames , whatever it needs.
We charge $69/hr. Send me an e-mail, maybe a few detail pictures, I can try to put some ballpark numbers together.

Dave

sales@autorust.com

PS  I am going to be away from 1-5-07 thru 1-15-07, so dont get nervous if I dont reply asap.

[mikepmcs]

Scott
Where abouts in NOVA.  My parents have lived in Centreville for 20+ years.  There has got to be some good ole boys down Manassas way that should do a good job.  I haven't been there for quite a few years but I always remember the Hot Rods hanging out there.

Actually all over Virginia but Manassas was my stomping grounds.

I have an idea for you to try.  Call some local car clubs in the area and see what they suggest.  It might sound like a long road to hoe but if a ton of them all say the same resto place then you might want to check them out.  Here's a link.  Just scroll down until you get to Virginia Car Clubs.

http://www.southernknightscruisers.com/links.html

Good luck
v/r
Mike

[bill440rt]

EIGHT G...G...G...G...GALLONS???  Even FOUR gallons is a lot!

My Project '69 is ready for paint. I've replaced a trunk floor, RT 1/4, wheelhouse, rear valence, corners, Lt fender & door, deck lid, hood, lower tie bar, trans tunnel, & numerous patches around the rear window & LT 1/4, rockers & other dents that were fixed. In other words, a TON of metal work.
I went thru about 3/4 of a gallon of fiberglass, 1-1/2 gallons of filler, & a can of polyester putty (comes in 1/2 gallons). Both sides were skimmed. The hood & deck lid needed almost nothing. The car is getting a top, but there were still dents on the roof that needed attention. I also used about 3 quarts of a special sprayable filler from Standox.
Like previous posts, most of this stuff ends up on the floor, but I still used no way near FOUR GALLONS of filler.

Keep looking, & stay away from that shop!!

[scottmiller]

Mike,

Great suggestion on the car clubs (thanks for the link).  I haven't gone that route yet but need to.

I grew up here in Fairfax and knew all the Manassas shops well (the mid-late 80's muscle car haydays and weekend drag racing at the Pepsi plant)... most have dried up.  There is one good one left and they are booked for the next 2 years.  A bunch of others have gone belly up, turned into "west coast style chopper builders" or do only collision work because that is where the $$$ is here with all the traffic and fender benders.  Places listed as "custom" shops are all about the "fast and furious" market and do ground effect kits and such on the imports.  There are a number of "high end" restoration shops who do good work, but if it wasn't built in Europe, they aren't too interested.

The places I have mentioned are in Warrenton... couple of possibilities there.  Front Royal is where the shop was with the Superbird and Packards are.  Their work is incredible, their labor rate is reasonable ($60), but when ballparking total cost/hrs... the numbers seemed high to me (20-25k).  Maybe I am not being realistic, don't really know.  A couple hours south (Richmond, Norfolk, Virginia Beach) there are some more places to check out too.

Autorust... I will message you with some more photos in the next couple days.

Thanks for all the responses.

-Scott

[hemi-hampton]

 If you got a ripply wavy car that needs the entire car skim coated to get straight you cannot do this with just 2-3 gallons of bondo( especially a big B-body) unless you want to use a lot of Primer Surfacer to do your filling for you? LEON. 

[hemi-hampton]

Bill, you got 1 1/2 gallons filler, 1/2 gallon polyester putty & 3/4 gallon Fiberglass filler. That totals 2 3/4 gallon. A hair short of 3 gallons, Lets round it off to 3 gallons. 3 gallons & you only did the sides, Never did the trunk or roof or hood. Doing the entire top would probably take another 3 gallons possibly depending on how beat up/wavy/dented it is. 3+3 gallons=6 gallons that could have possibly been on your car but guess your saying top of your car was mint & straight. I dont get straight cars to work on. I get delapitated wasted basket cases that should have been junked 20 years earlier. LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

Heres the kinda Garbage I have to work on. Look at that beat up 1/4. Ever see how wavy a Sherman or aftermarket 1/4 is. Look at the holes on that darts roof plus big holes hiding under Bondo, Entire middle of roof pretty much collapsed under a rust hole 3 feet long. Yeah, I skim coated this entire car with less then a gallon of bondo, only lightly blocked once & straight as a arrow, & all in one day, LOL. LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

Heres another Gem we have to work on, New floors, firewall,cowl, wheelwells,extensions, 1/4's, doors, fenders, hood, trunk, ect, ect. Everything new but roof. Since all new metal will need no bodo, no primer, no sealer, heck just scuff & paint. I'm being sarcastic.

[hemi-hampton]

Yeah, this solid rustfree straight gem will require very little bondo also

[hemi-hampton]

Yes, Even Bondo on this car. 70 440 6 pak Cuda. LEON.

[bull]

Scott,

I doubt that $15k is going to get you a rotisserie job done on your car. I spent about that much having my '68 repaired and that was just the outside; no engine compartment repairs, no trunk repairs, no undercarriage and no paint. The car is ready to be block-sanded on the outside but I still need to take care of trunk and engine compartment pits (and a few pinholes) before that happens. If I take it back to the body shop I used it will take another $6,500 to finish it. The shop I used is not the highest priced shop but the owner does many muscle car restorations and has several Chargers himself so he knows what he's doing. Still, it's anything but cheap.

I know some guys here have the guts to take on body work themselves but I decided to not learn on my Charger. I had a '70 when I was a kid and I botched it by doing the body work myself. I just don't have the feel for it. I will be doing a lot of my own work in many other areas but the body work is just too important for me to mess with.

[440mag]

Scott,

I doubt that $15k is going to get you a rotisserie job done on your car.

I agree.  My car is in the shop now.  Just visited the body shop today to see if we could get a accurate guess of the total when its done.  All the body work is done and its ready to finish the final sand before they shoot the door jams tomorrow.  I'm looking at $19,000 out the door.  That is just paint , supplies and labor.  I supplied all the new parts, seals and brite work.

[71charger_fan]

Take a drive and visit RF Autobody in Frederick, MD. They do a lot of Mopars and did a very good rust repair job on my Charger.

[daytonalo]

I hate he word BONDO, its so amateurish ! Plastic please or filler please

[71charger_fan]

Bondo is simply a brand name that has become synonymous with the product. Same as Ping Pong and Kleenex. I'm sure it's a mixed blessing for the company that makes Bondo brand auto body filler.

[dkn1997]

I hate he word BONDO, its so amateurish ! Plastic please or filler please

yep, I took an autobody class about 6 years ago and the instructor was a 40-50 year old body buy.  He never used the word bondo.  always used plastic or in some cases, putty, which he pronounced put-y

[scottmiller]

Thought I would give an update on the body shop search.

The car is about 2 weeks into a complete body restoration now.  I settled on a restoration shop just west of Hagerstown Maryland.  So far I can't say enough good things about them.  Their attention to detail and metal fabrication skills are second to none of the other places I looked at.

As is always the case, there were a number of surprises lying underneath 38 years of paint, bondo and rust.  The car is however getting done right and in the end will be a rust free specimen.

I am headed out on Saturday to have a look and takes some pictures of the progress.

Thank you everyone for your input.

Scott

[SeattleCharger]

Heres the kinda Garbage I have to work on. Look at that beat up 1/4. Ever see how wavy a Sherman or aftermarket 1/4 is. Look at the holes on that darts roof plus big holes hiding under Bondo, Entire middle of roof pretty much collapsed under a rust hole 3 feet long. Yeah, I skim coated this entire car with less then a gallon of bondo, only lightly blocked once & straight as a arrow, & all in one day, LOL. LEON.

   Hello, if you can say briefly, how did you fill the hole in lower quarter behind rear wheel and near valiance?    are you kidding about this?  I have no experience doing filler, have done some sanding, primer filling, painting, but want to do some  body work myself  , thanks,

[mikepmcs]

speaking from having little expereince as well but i hang out at a body shop all the time. That's strictly metal replacement. You want as little filler as possible.

v/r
Mike

[moparguy01]

Everyone is so afraid of plastic fillers I cant help but chuckle. There is nothing wrong with using it, its just when you MISUSE it that it becomes an issue. Real bodymen will use a SKIM coat of filler. we dont fill it big dents and we dont fill in rust holes using filler.

BONDO brand filler is complete crap. i dont use the word bondo because i dont want people to think I use crap products on vehicles I do.

the only car i've worked on that had 4 gallons of body filler was a 1980 Corvette. i dont think its too bad there since the whole car is body filler. 

[SeattleCharger]

Everyone is so afraid of plastic fillers I cant help but chuckle. There is nothing wrong with using it, its just when you MISUSE it that it becomes an issue. Real bodymen will use a SKIM coat of filler. we dont fill it big dents and we dont fill in rust holes using filler.

BONDO brand filler is complete crap. i dont use the word bondo because i dont want people to think I use crap products on vehicles I do.

the only car i've worked on that had 4 gallons of body filler was a 1980 Corvette. i dont think its too bad there since the whole car is body filler. 

  Can anyone direct a thread at me about filling rust holes, don't have big dents, but some sad areas for sure.   I am spending time and money on engine build and getting it on road, want to quick fix the body for now, and the black primer thing, to drive it for a while, then hopefully can do quality body repairs later on down the road,  I know you guys are professionals, but something about patch and bondo,     See the corners in lower back?  Any suggestions or links for a quick patch job?  (that's my brother's truck and trailer, I don't have that kind of dough)    thanks, Nate

[mikepmcs]

Nate,

http://www.autobody101.com/


Maybe this could help.  Glad to see you are going to get it on the road

v/r
Mike

[SeattleCharger]

Nate,

http://www.autobody101.com/


Maybe this could help.  Glad to see you are going to get it on the road

v/r
Mike

Thanks Mike, looked that over, sort of covers some things I know, not much on filler there, more priming/sanding threads, heck, I'll just keep reading here.

[hemi-hampton]

That Dart in Question got a whole new 1/4 panel (sherman) & a whole used rustfree roof (desert valley in arizona) Best to cut all rust out & replace it. LEON.

[mikepmcs]

Just so you know I haven't forgotten the past.  I'm really glad you are keeping it!

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,12751.msg147774.html#msg147774

v/r
Mike

[SeattleCharger]

Just so you know I haven't forgotten the past.  I'm really glad you are keeping it!

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,12751.msg147774.html#msg147774

v/r
Mike

I just re read what you wrote there Mike, thanks for writing that back then, and dang man, that is something you remembered that thread and found it, right on.