How much would it cost for a 318 to 426 Hemi Crate Conversion in a 69

[69 OUR/TEA]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

             
           I beleive that was when they  altered the class for a one time race with slicks,and changed out their torque converters,etc.When in regular rules I beleive the vette still has it.And on another note,BBC's and Hemis are race proven,so alot of props to the Stage One Buicks for even being there.Did'nt Gessler with his buick win the overall for points 3 years in a row?

I think he was only comparing the Hemis vs Wedges. I don't think he was comparing everything.....

PS..... How ya doin' 69 OUR/TEA?  Been a while! I'm thinkin' of taking another ride up your way in 07. Had a great time last time. Finally found that vacuum leak...brake booster was guilty! Running MUCH better now!

Doin good,thanks,been real busy with the house,yes come up again to that same cruise at BK,was real suprised last year when I pulled in with the coronet and parked next to you,you being so far away.Congrats on the fix!!!

[firefighter3931]

Sure, just make sure you are running stock heads, stock cam, stock exhaust, stock pistons, in fact stock everything....I wouldn't want to compare apples and oranges now... slicks allowed! Just give me a buzz when you get to Jersey, we have a nice track down here....

Well, the crank, rods and pistons are stock. The heads don't even flow as well as a "stock" hemi head. Hey i've only got one carburater to your two.  I guess the mighty hemi isn't up to a little heads up with a pump gas wedge.  Bring that badboy to Norwalk and ya....slicks are fine. 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

I think it would be a very interesting race between you and Hemidoug. Would be very interested in seeing that!

Me too ! 


Ron



Ps. Lookin forward to those pics ! 

[chargerrt]

Thats not out of line, That thought has crossed my mind several times but I would want a 69 440 to complete the R/T clone. Everything is up in the air. Its even up for sale in the classifieds section.

Ya now that you mention that....I had heavy considerations for that ride over the summer....If my car would have sold it might would have been in my garage right now

[firefighter3931]

Well I didn't mean to start a fight. I wouldn't be doing it to make a race car. Just a street driver. I also think it wouldn't hurt the value of the car too much. How much do you think it would be worth with the 25k put into it.

Sorry for the Hijack DCN....no fight started, just a little good natured ribbing going on 

To answer your question ; With the popularity of Hemi's you really can't go wrong throwing one in the car, inmo. You will easily recover your costs when it comes time to sell. 

One word of caution : Should you decide to purchase an MP crate engine...pay a competent machine shop to tear it down and inspect it closely then have it reasssembled and tuned. 



Ron

[69Chrgr]

Agreed! I never entertained the idea of an MP crate motor, however I've have heard that they are much better regarding quality now. I thought I'd build my own or have it built by FHO or BEST, Barton, etc. But I still think that the Hemi is the  gift to Mopars. .

Yes, the Buick gave a great run in that race. But if you read the article, it seems that Hemi RR was unstoppable. My dad has an 87 Buick GN (with 29,000 miles) so Thanksgiving and Christmas conversations get pretty interesting. He is a Buick guy, but knows Mopars rule. lol.

[69fuchs]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

Who's talking FAST racing ? Those are blueprinted stroker race builds. The wedge engines are handicapped with a factory head, restrictive intake and exhaust manifolds. 

I'd put my 446 against any "crate" 426 or 472 hemi any day of the week.  Oh ya, and it cost about half to build what most people pay for the MP crate junk. 


Ron

How about a "crate" from tim at FHO?  I think you are walking  on thin ice with that statement.....

I got my stock street hemi (no blueprint or other monkey business) to run 12.82@106 in september. 

I like this combo on the strip against your edelbrock 446

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/155_0310_hemi_426_crate_engine_dyno_test/

[Hemidoug]

Well, the crank, rods and pistons are stock. The heads don't even flow as well as a "stock" hemi head. Hey i've only got one carburater to your two.  I guess the mighty hemi isn't up to a little heads up with a pump gas wedge.  Bring that badboy to Norwalk and ya....slicks are fine. 


Ron

If I ever make it over to Nowalk you have a race. Maybe we can settle this at Carlisle. There is a track near by.

If I understand your side of the discussion, it shouldn't matter what the heads flow. You are saying basically that "street Hemis are slugs" and a 440 6 pack would take one.  I'm saying, everything equal (stock vs stock) that the Hemi would win.  My car is basically stock. Stock bore and crank, stock intake and exhaust. I am running out of the box Mopar performance aluminum heads but they are un-ported. The only advantage is less weight. I am also running an Isky cam .510 lift 300 duration. I am running stock exhaust manifolds, intake and carbs.

I would like more detail on your setup. What are you running on the top end of the motor? 4spd or auto? Headers?

[69fuchs]

If I understand your side of the discussion, it shouldn't matter what the heads flow. You are saying basically that "street Hemis are slugs" and a 440 6 pack would take one.  I'm saying, everything equal (stock vs stock) that the Hemi would win.


                                     AMEN TO THAT

[firefighter3931]

Well, the crank, rods and pistons are stock. The heads don't even flow as well as a "stock" hemi head. Hey i've only got one carburater to your two.  I guess the mighty hemi isn't up to a little heads up with a pump gas wedge.  Bring that badboy to Norwalk and ya....slicks are fine. 


Ron

If I ever make it over to Nowalk you have a race. Maybe we can settle this at Carlisle. There is a track near by.

  My car is basically stock. Stock bore and crank, stock intake and exhaust. I am running out of the box Mopar performance aluminum heads but they are un-ported. The only advantage is less weight. I am also running an Isky cam .510 lift 300 duration. I am running stock exhaust manifolds, intake and carbs.

I would like more detail on your setup. What are you running on the top end of the motor? 4spd or auto? Headers?

Doug, i saw that track at Carlisle.  I guess a track is a track if ya want to call it that.  You ever go to the show at LVD ? That track is about 6hrs from here.  Maybe at the show in the fall (mopars at the valley)....if not Norwalk ?

So yours is an aluminum headed hemi.....that makes us even. 

Basic rundown on the 446 :

Stock crank, stock rods, Speedpro (stock replacement) pistons,10.5:1 static compression, pump gas, balanced rotating assembly....nuthing exotic.
Edelbrock heads, Street Dominator Intake, Holley double pumper
Comp Cams, single pattern 295* duration stick
Headers & full exhaust
Torqueflight
Dana 60

The car is all steel (no fiberglass), full interior, frame connecters, 8pt bar, ss springs, power steering, manual disc brakes. I'm pretty sure it'll be heavier than your hemi car with the added rollbar/frame connecters etc. 


So, whatchya think ? 



Ron

[Hemidoug]

Sounds like it could be a good run. Where is Norwalk? Where and what is LVD? There are a couple of tracks around Carlisle, which one are you talking about? I'm guessing you are in the Ohio area?

[69Chrgr]

Firefighter, how bout I bring my small block cuda up there for a little added fun. I'll give you a head start to make up for the weight and comp. difference. Or, why don't we all go on Pinks?

[firefighter3931]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

Who's talking FAST racing ? Those are blueprinted stroker race builds. The wedge engines are handicapped with a factory head, restrictive intake and exhaust manifolds. 

I'd put my 446 against any "crate" 426 or 472 hemi any day of the week.  Oh ya, and it cost about half to build what most people pay for the MP crate junk. 


Ron

How about a "crate" from tim at FHO?  I think you are walking  on thin ice with that statement.....

I got my stock street hemi (no blueprint or other monkey business) to run 12.82@106 in september. 

I like this combo on the strip against your edelbrock 446

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/155_0310_hemi_426_crate_engine_dyno_test/

FHO puts out some nice stuff....no arguement there. 

Your car is running excellent !  But even you would have to agree that those ET's are not typical of most street hemis. 


The MM 426 buildup is interesting but they added a lot of goodies to make it run the number on the pump ; big azz solid roller cam, electric water pump, Barton race single plane and a dominator. That's pretty far removed from a street hemi and a whole lot more than i've got.  The 446 runs a flat tappet, mechanical water pump, street intake and a 4150 carb. 

That is an impressive piece none the less...even i'll concede that ! 


Ron

[Hemidoug]

Firefighter, how bout I bring my small block cuda up there for a little added fun. I'll give you a head start to make up for the weight and comp. difference. Or, why don't we all go on Pinks?

Now THAT would be something wouldn't it? Except the giving up your car part of course.........

Firefighter...The edelbrock heads do more for the wedge then MP heads do for the Hemi, so it's not exactly even but closer then if I was running stock iron heads. Why don't you put stock exhaust manifolds on her to even it up a little more.

[firefighter3931]

Sounds like it could be a good run. Where is Norwalk? Where and what is LVD? There are a couple of tracks around Carlisle, which one are you talking about? I'm guessing you are in the Ohio area?

Doug, i'm up north....over the border, lol ! Approx 3hrs north east of Syracuse.

Norwalk is in Ohio, the event is in September....big show and race weekend. It's one of the Chrysler Classic events. That one is a 12hr tow for me. I try to go every year. Norwalk Ohio....1 hr from Cleveland.

LVD is Lebanon Valley Dragway....near Albany new your, i believe. They have an event in the fall but i've never been to it. That one would be halfway between us...i think ? You're in Jersey, right ?


Ya, that track in Carlisle was pretty sad....i don't know the name of it but it's an 1/8th mile with a big curve at the end ! 


Ron


Ps. Here's a few pics of the 68....guess i better get wrenchin !!! 

[Hemidoug]

LVD sounds like it would work. I've been there for the FAST races. They should have one in June, but we could meet anytime. I thought York was 1/4 mile....I've never been there, but it's an NHRA track that has a lot of history. Is that the one you are talking about? LVD sounds like a plan......


PS...The car is lookin' GREAT. What color are you going to paint it?

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter, how bout I bring my small block cuda up there for a little added fun. I'll give you a head start to make up for the weight and comp. difference. Or, why don't we all go on Pinks?

Pinks !!! Holy Crap....i'll race for BEER ! 

Honestly, there's no way i would ever take anyones car if i won....just too much heart and soul goes into these old beasts....but i have no problem with a case of suds ! 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

LVD sounds like it would work. I've been there for the FAST races. They should have one in June, but we could meet anytime. I thought York was 1/4 mile....I've never been there, but it's an NHRA track that has a lot of history. Is that the one you are talking about? LVD sounds like a plan......


PS...The car is lookin' GREAT. What color are you going to paint it?

Doug, the track i was referring to is an 1/8 mile run of (ripped up) asphalt in the woods  ....i think it's called Iron Mountain, or something like that. I haven't been to York...is that a nice facility ? I imagine it is....

LVD in the fall would be nice...cool weather and the cars run stronger. I think the LVD show is in early October...

The 68 is going triple black with a red tail stripe. Thanks for the compliment. With any luck, i'll have it at Carlisle. I just bought an enclosed trailer and picked up a tow vehicle in Sept....now i just gotta finish the freakin car ! 


Ron

[Charger-Bodie]

  take money out of the equation and it would be hemi all the way, atleast for me anyway, dont get me wrong wedge motors also demand respect,in one of my previous chargers i had a hughes stage II crate gine rated a 555 hp and 560 torque and it was an animal but a HEMI is the pinnicle of the muscle car era and i think we should not fight about that and just be thankful that HEMI is ours not gm HEMIs rule and someday my car will have one and thats that!

[69fuchs]

Firefighter,  your car is looking very good.  I think you have a well planned out project.  Your car is going to fly, no doubt about it.  I remember you talking about making a 472 crate hemi look sick against your engine which is very impressive.  What if YOU went through that crate hemi, with maybe a cam change,valve job, and some attention to detail.  It would cost much more than a wedge, but the results would be pretty spectacular.

The hemi in the mm article shows huge potential, and is still a 9 to 1, stock bore, stock stroke motor.  As far as the dominator/race intake/roller cam:  Ever checked out Jay Brown's 69 mustang with a FE engine?  Here is a pic.  He won hot rod drag week last year with it, drove track to track pulling a trailer, with his dominator/race intake/roller cam.  I don't think this stuff is anymore exotic than aftermarket cylinder heads, do you?

Making a hemi run takes some knowledge and time to sort things out.  It is not hard to keep a hemi in tune-I finally replaced my spark plugs in sept. after 8 full years of service.  Not much else has been done except driving and racing.