How much would it cost for a 318 to 426 Hemi Crate Conversion in a 69

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Just wondering how much this would could total. Start with a 318 charger and put a 426 Crate Hemi in it. Of course purchase a good 727 with converter to go behind it along with a Dana 60 rearend. Headers, Exhaust, New Carb, New Disc Brakes and New front suspension and what ever else I may be forgetting. Has anyone done this or priced out just the parts. Let me know

[Ghoste]

I'd budget for 30,000 not including the Charger.

[Charger-Bodie]

 

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Wow I was thinking 25k max, I must have forgotten or overlooked some important stuff

[Shakey]

I was thinking more like $33,500.00 but hey, what the hell do I know.   

[Ghoste]

There is ALWAYS some forgotten or overlooked items in a project like this and the 5000 can get eaten up fast.  Budget higher than you think whenever you're dealing with old cars.

[69charger2002]

i think $25000 would easily cover it. a crate motor can be had for $12,800, a complete strange dana 60 is $2000, a fully built 727 can be had for $2000, if you are just talking parts, not labor, i think $25k covers it for sure
just my $.02

[Hemidoug]

I thik it could be done for less then 25K assuming you start with a good base.
Crate motor (base 426) carb to oilpan for 12K
Good 727 trans rebuilt for 1-1.5k
Moser 60 rear complete 2500
SS springs for <400
Hemi torsion bars <400
4 wheel disc brake setup 900
All new frontend parts <500
Hemi motor mounts 250
Hemi motor mount brackets 250
Misc pullies and brackets 300-500
new aluminum radiator 400

I think I covered most of the high $$$ items.

total of everything at the high price estimate is 19.6K....Not too shabby and all quality equipment!

ps..add in another 1K for headers/exhaust system.....

[lilwendal]

Just finished.  30 is a little high for just parts but if you're paying anyone to do part of the job than 30 might not be enough. Quick run down to make a 426 crate "appear" original.
a. 426 crate 13,500.00 add 500 to ship.
b. Schumaker mounts to mate to your K member 350.00
c. repo exhaust manifolds  750.00
d. original intake 850.00
e. original cleaner  1000.00
f. misc linkage, fuel lines,springs,hoses and clips 750.00
g. correct pulleys and fan 500.00
h. correct wrinkle valve covers 350.00
i. HD 727 rebuilt or 18 spline  without rebuild 850.00
J. if going 4 speed add another 1500.00 for bell housing, fly wheel & clutch package
k.Dana 60 used 1500.00 plus another 500.00 for parts to rebuild
l.  If your making the body correct too then you have torque boxes at 300.00 plus K member skid plate at 100.00. The snubber plate can be fabbed from scrap
m.   add a couple hundred for the rest of the exhaust
n. If your thinking of original carbs then plan on about 2 grand for a usable set but other carbs will fit and remain unnoticed under the cleaner.
If your going to run power brakesthan add another 500.00 for aftermarket booster relocation kit.
This is just for the hemi conversion and does not address any of the suspension or braking you mentioned. Doesnt take long to add uo fast. and this is just the engine swap. Again this is parts only.

[rich4406bbl]

Why start with a 318 car? Look around for a 383 4v with AC car instead. Already has the big block 727, complete brackets and pulleys (you'll need the crank pulley for a hemi however due to balancer thicknes) and a HD radiator. Scrap the idea of a Dana 60 since it's not needed with the auto trans. I'd re-think the 4 wheel disc setup. Maybe just a conversion from drum to disc/drum with modern upgraded parts.

One thing to realize however is that Hemi and "cheap" are 2 words that just don't seem to go together.

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Well it just so happens I have a 318 charger and nothing else

[Charger-Bodie]

nice looking car

[Khyron]

I know I may be out of line, but for less money, just build up a 440?

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Thats not out of line, That thought has crossed my mind several times but I would want a 69 440 to complete the R/T clone. Everything is up in the air. Its even up for sale in the classifieds section.

[Khyron]

Just my opinion. My plan for my Charger is just going a baby step at a time. Start with a 440 and a running big block chassis for my charger and year by year move up from there, new set of heads, cam, ect ect.

Good luck on whatever you choice is

[hotrod98]

Just converted my challenger convertible to a 426 crate hemi setup with a new TCI tranny and convertor, TTI headers, all mounts, pulleys, kickdown linkage, black wrinkle covers, cooling system, torsion bars and all of the little stuff. You can do it for 20K. If you go the 440 way with a decent crate setup you'll spend about 12k.
That extra 8 grand buys a lot of respect. 

[tecmopar]

$22,367.74, or there abouts, it really depends on how good of a shopper and swapper you are, good luck.

[Troy]

It also depends on how "correct" you want it. As lilwendal noted, Hemi cars had torque boxes and frame modifications which will impact your budget even more if you've already painted the car. The Hemi 727 is different than a "normal" 727 and so is the brake booster (if power). Hemi cranks are also eight bolt so remember that when buying flywheels and torque converters. The correct air cleaner, valve covers, intake manifold, carbs, air filter, exhaust manifolds, and breather don't come with a crate Hemi so tack those on if you want it to look right. A correct set of carbs and an intake can easily set you back $4000+ and repro exhaust manifolds are around $650 I think. Remember the throttle linkage and fuel lines to go with the dual carbs. The big chrome air cleaner ranges from $500 to $1000 with the filters in the $120-150 range (if you can find one). The engine wiring harness and radiator are also specific to the Hemi. The k-frame skid plate only works if you're using aftermarket motor mounts on a regular k-frame - add a bunch more if you want a real Hemi k-frame and mounts ($1500-2000?). The accessory brackets on the front of the motor are also Hemi specific due to the larger balancer. Don't forget the bigger torsion bars (a bigger sway bar wouldn't hurt). Last time I checked, you couldn't get a 426 crate Hemi from Mopar which makes your options the 472 or 528 - with the higher price tags. Arruzza, Barton, Indy, and For Hemis Only would also be good choices but the prices vary depending on what you want. If you buy it all instead of building from scratch I'd start with a budget of $25000+.

If you don't care if it's correct you can almost cut that price in half with some frugal parts shopping. The crate Hemi comes with a single 4bbl intake which most people toss immediately. If you're building an engine from scratch you can pick these intakes up cheap. Throw on a no-frills air cleaner over a basic 4bbl and you've saved about $4000 right there but it is immediately obvious when you open the hood. Crate Hemis also come with the chrome valve covers which most everyone tosses for the black ones. You can find these "take-offs" for $325 or so versus $800+ for the black ones. One trick when building the engine is to use a 440 crank which allows you to use the 440 balancer, pulleys, and accessory brackets as well as the flywheel/torque converter. This can save $1500-2500 easily (depending on whether you're trying to find a good Hemi crank too). This is mostly internal so it isn't overly obvious to most casual spectators. Schumacher and Arruzza make mounts that allow you to install a Hemi on a normal k-frame. You can barely see them once the engine is installed and it's way cheaper than finding a real k-frame and mounts. Engine harnesses can be modified to work on the Hemi. The valve train components are probably the most expensive thing to worry about with the possible exception of the intake system. The Mopar parts are ridiculously expensive (rocker stands around $800 alone) so finding a good used set is a much more friendly option. Many times you can find the rocker assemblies for under $1500. You can find some aftermarket stands for as low as $350. You just need the time and patience to shop around.

Remember, hotrod98's Challenger would have had an "oval" air cleaner which is reproduced and much cheaper/easier to find than the round chrome ones for 69. It probably breathes better though if you don't care about originality.

If you're worried about speed just build a 440. If you want the maximum visual impact then don't even think of anything other than a Hemi. It all depends on what you want and what you are comfortable with (and what you can spend!). I think you could build a very respectable 440 for $4000 or so and be very happy driving it around. Of course, my 318 got 22 mpg over the summer and hotrod98's EFI Magnum powered car gets about 26 with the overdrive and cruise control.

Troy

[chargerboy69]

My buddy just finished his 318 to a Hemi crate motor swap. He had just under $20,000.00 in it. Now the engine was a little cheaper. We have a guy in our Mopar Club that owns a Dodge Dealer, so he was able to purchase the engine for cost, and shipping was free. But that included disc brakes, TTI headers, TTI 3" exhaust, built 727, built Dana, new wheels and tires and new front and rear suspension. And he did all the work himself. So there was not any labor involved other than rebuilding the transmission and the rearend. By the way, nice looking car.

[69Chrgr]

Well, I just completed the rotissierie(and paint) piece and had torque boxes and subframe connectors installed. Called Barton and others, and was told that even 528 blocks were hard to come by. However, with the new World Products blocks becoming available, I think the Hemi's price tag will eventually come down as World Products should be able to feed the demand much more efficiently than Mopar. Nothing against 440's, but don't settle if you plan to do a Hemi. Just take the time to save a few extra bucks. Just my .02 anyway.

[hotrod98]

Troy's right on the money. There may have been items purchased during my swap that I've forgotten about so plan to spend a little more than 20k.
The 426 hemi is the pinnacle of mopardom.  So if you want a hemi, don't settle for second best. You'll regret it later. The only guys that dispute that are the guys that either don't have a hemi or can't afford to buy one.

[69Chrgr]

Troy's right on the money. There may have been items purchased during my swap that I've forgotten about so plan to spend a little more than 20k.
The 426 hemi is the pinnacle of mopardom.  So if you want a hemi, don't settle for second best. You'll regret it later. The only guys that dispute that are the guys that either don't have a hemi or can't afford to buy one.

That is absolutely correct. I could have gone the 440 route, (probably will when I get a RR), but I'm just waitin' and savin'. Couldn't have said it better myself.  

[Brock Samson]

Six-packs are faster and cheaper where i am...    
$ 15-30 depending on your level of analness... 
but for a HEMI?..  $ 30K unless you do the work your self. 
back when i did mine i added it up and the hemi was 15 to start,.. the six-pack was $8,000 and more suited to my idea of a street fighter.

love that clone!   
great thread, good responses to anyone thinking of the idea. 

[69Chrgr]

Agreed. Great topic!! Guess where I live Hemi's are top dog. However they are also more expensive, just like anywhere else.Damn my bad luck.lol

[Troy]

Another thing, timing needs to come into the equation. The World Products blocks are sorely needed BUT they aren't in production and the first ones (the race blocks) aren't due out until mid to late summer with the street blocks following some time after (6 months? A year? They don't say). Crate Hemi blocks are scarce again but I know of at least two for a small premium. You really have to watch the production dates for core shift and all that. Original blocks could be hiding a multitude of problems and, if they are 69 date coded, can be much more expensive than crates. I'd trust a builder like FHO or Arruzza to source the block or entire engine to make sure the parts are sound (or possibly Chenoweth or Mopar Engines West depending on your location). If you want something NOW then the price will be higher but if you have time to shop you can find deals.

Troy

[472 R/T SE]

I have all my receipts but I'm 2000 miles away so I'm going on memory.

a. 472 crate 14,300.00, picked up at dealership.
b. Schumaker mounts to mate to your K member 350.00
c. tti exhaust manifolds  650.00
d. Stage 5 intake with 2 carter 650's, baseplate and fuel lines from FHO 2250.00
e. exhaust tips for the 3" 200.00
f. new engine wiring harness 200.00
g. new plug wires 200.00
h. correct wrinkle valve covers 350.00
i. my tranny was recently rebuilt.
j. msd 6al black box 200.00
l. valve cover gaskets 50.00
m.  3 " tti exhaust, can't remember for sure 600-700
n. I need power brakes, so the booster with the Hemi offset bracket 495.00
o.  vaccuum pump for the brakes. 400.00

That's $20,290 give or take.  A lot of the stuff isn't needed for some.  I NEED the reliability of the MSD box and power brakes and wanted a correct appearing motor.  In case the motor dies, I need the vaccuum pump to keep the brakes up plus I only had 6lbs. of vaccuum.

One thing I noticed right away is anything that says Hemi in it, you just as well plan on it being twice the amount $$.  Could I have sold my car and got into an original DRIVER Hemi car for the money I've sunk into this car...quite possibly.    

[GeneralLeeTESH]

Forget the Dana 60. Get real. Drop in a 500.00 1977-80 Lincoln Versailles DB rearend (comes stock with a posi)...and it'll easily handle 600 H.P. without blinking. A versailles or Granada rearend from 77-80 has a spring perch to perch measurement of 44" and will put each tire 1.0" closer to the rear leaf springs..allowing MORE tire in the rear wheel-well.
I did this with mine and am Happy now !!!

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

If I were to do it I would definately go with a Dana 60, I'm not gonna spend all that money and put a ford rearend in a mopar. Never happen

[Hemidog]

Forget the Dana 60. Get real. Drop in a 500.00 1977-80 Lincoln Versailles DB rearend (comes stock with a posi)...and it'll easily handle 600 H.P. without blinking. A versailles or Granada rearend from 77-80 has a spring perch to perch measurement of 44" and will put each tire 1.0" closer to the rear leaf springs..allowing MORE tire in the rear wheel-well.
I did this with mine and am Happy now !!!

pictures?

[firefighter3931]

That extra 8 grand buys a lot of respect. 

Not at the drag strip 


Ron

[69Chrgr]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

[firefighter3931]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

Who's talking FAST racing ? Those are blueprinted stroker race builds. The wedge engines are handicapped with a factory head, restrictive intake and exhaust manifolds. 

I'd put my 446 against any "crate" 426 or 472 hemi any day of the week.  Oh ya, and it cost about half to build what most people pay for the MP crate junk. 


Ron

[6pkrunner]

Ron, you're going down the road we've already been down. The timeslips know the difference.

[69Chrgr]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

Who's talking FAST racing ? Those are blueprinted stroker race builds. The wedge engines are handicapped with a factory head, restrictive intake and exhaust manifolds. 

I'd put my 446 against any "crate" 426 or 472 hemi any day of the week.  Oh ya, and it cost about half to build what most people pay for the MP crate junk. 


Ron

Easy, easy now. I'm not anit-wedge, however your 446 isn't a crate. A well built 426, not to mention a well built 472 would probably hand you your ass. No offence.

[Hemidoug]

Being that this is a very subjective argument I'll just add one thought. I own both and I can tell you that both are strong running engines. My 71 6 pack car was running 12s on street tires, I don't know what my Hemi is running yet. Both engines are about equal when both are well tuned. A strong running 6 pack will trounce a badly tuned Hemi, no doubt about it. The Hemi comes on real strong on the top end of the track and this is where a Hemi will walk away from a 6 pack, everything else being equal. Yes, it is less expensive to build a stout 440, but you can get more out of modifying a Hemi. 440s are a better street engine, easier to tune and keep it that way, Hemis are better race engines. 

One thing about Hemis that hasn't been mentioned yet....Be prepared to spent a lot of time under the hood tinkering. Learn Carter carbs like the back of your hand, learn to read spark plugs, and learn to tune. I am speaking from experience here. I have learned more about the finer points of tuning in the past 5 years then I did in the prior 25. If you want a good running engine, you are going to have to know it like you were BORN with it. THAT is the real price of owning a Hemi.

[69Chrgr]

There. We can all be friends again.

[Daytona R/T SE]

I'm seriously considering a Hemi for my Daytona clone that I'm putting together.  From what I've heard MP has resolved most of the quality issues of the crate motors, now the problem they're having is availability.  When I asked the guys from Mancini racing about a crate Hemi at the nationals, their answer was "Well... we can put your name on the waiting list, but we don't know how long it will be" 

The well-groomed teenage pretty boy at the Mopar tent was totally clueless when I enquired about the availability of the Hemi engine he was leaning on   

I saw an ad in the latest MCG for this place   http://www.realhemi.com/    Anybody ever heard of them?

[firefighter3931]

Easy, easy now. I'm not anit-wedge, however your 446 isn't a crate. A well built 426, not to mention a well built 472 would probably hand you your ass. No offence.

No offence taken...as for handing me my ass, sure there are lots that could do it. But, i've seen a lot of street hemi's that i could smoke with 2 gears. 

The point being is that Hemi doesn't necessarily mean fast.    The reality is that in street trim, they are Slugs. 

Don't get me started on the QC issues of the MP crates. One guy i spoke with dynoed his mighty 528 and it made a whopping 430hp.  Not too impressive for an engine that's advertised to make 600+ 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Ron, you're going down the road we've already been down. The timeslips know the difference.

Sorry Mike, I'll shuddup now ! 


Ron

[Hemidoug]

The point being is that Hemi doesn't necessarily mean fast.    The reality is that in street trim, they are Slugs. 

I agree with the first part. I DON'T agree with the second one. A PROPERLY TUNED street Hemi is NO slug. If you really think that, you will have some surprises when you take one on. I'd like to get a little of that action when that happens, I know where I'll be putting my money.......

[69Chrgr]

Easy, easy now. I'm not anit-wedge, however your 446 isn't a crate. A well built 426, not to mention a well built 472 would probably hand you your ass. No offence.

No offence taken...as for handing me my ass, sure there are lots that could do it. But, i've seen a lot of street hemi's that i could smoke with 2 gears. 

The point being is that Hemi doesn't necessarily mean fast.    The reality is that in street trim, they are Slugs. 

Don't get me started on the QC issues of the MP crates. One guy i spoke with dynoed his mighty 528 and it made a whopping 430hp.  Not too impressive for an engine that's advertised to make 600+ 


Ron

Yes, and there are also plenty of small blocks that would also hand you your ass on a platter,(mine being one ) so I hate to tell you this but 440 also doesn't mean fast. We could go on and on here, but it seems that there is a little jealousy from the 440 owners regarding Hemis. Please don't let your lack of funds blur your perspective on engines. Now, we can be friends again.

[firefighter3931]

Yes, and there are also plenty of small blocks that would also hand you your ass on a platter,(mine being one ) so I hate to tell you this but 440 also doesn't mean fast. We could go on and on here, but it seems that there is a little jealousy from the 440 owners regarding Hemis. Please don't let your lack of funds blur your perspective on engines. Now, we can be friends again.

Ahh a smallblock guru.  How fast is the car ? What's it weigh ?

So let's here it....breakdown on the build. Pump gas ? Inquiring minds want to know ?   

You're gonna have to do better than say "my smallblock can hand ya your ass".   



Ron

[firefighter3931]

If you really think that, you will have some surprises when you take one on. I'd like to get a little of that action when that happens, I know where I'll be putting my money.......

Douggie, so how about it : your street hemi against my street wedge. I will have the car back together before the summer. 

I've got a case of Canada's finest waitin for ya ! 


Ron


Dang, i said i would shuddup....now look what's happening ! 

[69Chrgr]

Yes, and there are also plenty of small blocks that would also hand you your ass on a platter,(mine being one ) so I hate to tell you this but 440 also doesn't mean fast. We could go on and on here, but it seems that there is a little jealousy from the 440 owners regarding Hemis. Please don't let your lack of funds blur your perspective on engines. Now, we can be friends again.

Ahh a smallblock guru.  How fast is the car ? What's it weigh ?

So let's here it....breakdown on the build. Pump gas ? Inquiring minds want to know ?   

You're gonna have to do better than say "my smallblock can hand ya your ass".   
68 Cuda
408"
Eagle Crank
12 to 1 Comp.
Custom Grind Bumpstick
Indy Heads and Intake
Demon Carb
3.90 Gears
A990 Trans
3200 Stall

Best Time @ Texas Motorplex 11.20 @ 116 on an 87 degree day

Now you buddy boy.


Now you?



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Nice combo !  It runs hard too, but it ain't a pump gas build and the car is an a-body....not exactly an apples to apples comparison is it ?  Pull 2 points of compression out of it and throw 800 lbs in the trunk and see what you run. 

No times yet on mine, car is still in the build stage but the engine is complete, broken in and dyno tuned.  The car is a full bodied, all steel 68 Charger, 8pt bar, frames tied etc... It's an easy 11 sec combo....how deep into the 11's it goes will depend on the knucklehead that's tuning it. 

Nice ride....luv them 68 Cudas  Fastback or Notch ? Post a pic if you can....


Ron

[69Chrgr]

Mine is a notchback. I'll post pic's. I think it would be a very interesting race between you and Hemidoug. Would be very interested in seeing that!

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Well I didn't mean to start a fight. I wouldn't be doing it to make a race car. Just a street driver. I also think it wouldn't hurt the value of the car too much. How much do you think it would be worth with the 25k put into it.

[Hemidoug]

If you really think that, you will have some surprises when you take one on. I'd like to get a little of that action when that happens, I know where I'll be putting my money.......

Douggie, so how about it : your street hemi against my street wedge. I will have the car back together before the summer. 

I've got a case of Canada's finest waitin for ya ! 


Ron


Dang, i said i would shuddup....now look what's happening ! 

Sure, just make sure you are running stock heads, stock cam, stock exhaust, stock pistons, in fact stock everything....I wouldn't want to compare apples and oranges now... slicks allowed! Just give me a buzz when you get to Jersey, we have a nice track down here....

[69 OUR/TEA]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

           I beleive that was when they  altered the class for a one time race with slicks,and changed out their torque converters,etc.When in regular rules I beleive the vette still has it.And on another note,BBC's and Hemis are race proven,so alot of props to the Stage One Buicks for even being there.Did'nt Gessler with his buick win the overall for points 3 years in a row?

[Hemidoug]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

             
           I beleive that was when they  altered the class for a one time race with slicks,and changed out their torque converters,etc.When in regular rules I beleive the vette still has it.And on another note,BBC's and Hemis are race proven,so alot of props to the Stage One Buicks for even being there.Did'nt Gessler with his buick win the overall for points 3 years in a row?

I think he was only comparing the Hemis vs Wedges. I don't think he was comparing everything.....

PS..... How ya doin' 69 OUR/TEA?  Been a while! I'm thinkin' of taking another ride up your way in 07. Had a great time last time. Finally found that vacuum leak...brake booster was guilty! Running MUCH better now!

[69 OUR/TEA]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

             
           I beleive that was when they  altered the class for a one time race with slicks,and changed out their torque converters,etc.When in regular rules I beleive the vette still has it.And on another note,BBC's and Hemis are race proven,so alot of props to the Stage One Buicks for even being there.Did'nt Gessler with his buick win the overall for points 3 years in a row?

I think he was only comparing the Hemis vs Wedges. I don't think he was comparing everything.....

PS..... How ya doin' 69 OUR/TEA?  Been a while! I'm thinkin' of taking another ride up your way in 07. Had a great time last time. Finally found that vacuum leak...brake booster was guilty! Running MUCH better now!

Doin good,thanks,been real busy with the house,yes come up again to that same cruise at BK,was real suprised last year when I pulled in with the coronet and parked next to you,you being so far away.Congrats on the fix!!!

[firefighter3931]

Sure, just make sure you are running stock heads, stock cam, stock exhaust, stock pistons, in fact stock everything....I wouldn't want to compare apples and oranges now... slicks allowed! Just give me a buzz when you get to Jersey, we have a nice track down here....

Well, the crank, rods and pistons are stock. The heads don't even flow as well as a "stock" hemi head. Hey i've only got one carburater to your two.  I guess the mighty hemi isn't up to a little heads up with a pump gas wedge.  Bring that badboy to Norwalk and ya....slicks are fine. 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

I think it would be a very interesting race between you and Hemidoug. Would be very interested in seeing that!

Me too ! 


Ron



Ps. Lookin forward to those pics ! 

[chargerrt]

Thats not out of line, That thought has crossed my mind several times but I would want a 69 440 to complete the R/T clone. Everything is up in the air. Its even up for sale in the classifieds section.

Ya now that you mention that....I had heavy considerations for that ride over the summer....If my car would have sold it might would have been in my garage right now

[firefighter3931]

Well I didn't mean to start a fight. I wouldn't be doing it to make a race car. Just a street driver. I also think it wouldn't hurt the value of the car too much. How much do you think it would be worth with the 25k put into it.

Sorry for the Hijack DCN....no fight started, just a little good natured ribbing going on 

To answer your question ; With the popularity of Hemi's you really can't go wrong throwing one in the car, inmo. You will easily recover your costs when it comes time to sell. 

One word of caution : Should you decide to purchase an MP crate engine...pay a competent machine shop to tear it down and inspect it closely then have it reasssembled and tuned. 



Ron

[69Chrgr]

Agreed! I never entertained the idea of an MP crate motor, however I've have heard that they are much better regarding quality now. I thought I'd build my own or have it built by FHO or BEST, Barton, etc. But I still think that the Hemi is the  gift to Mopars. .

Yes, the Buick gave a great run in that race. But if you read the article, it seems that Hemi RR was unstoppable. My dad has an 87 Buick GN (with 29,000 miles) so Thanksgiving and Christmas conversations get pretty interesting. He is a Buick guy, but knows Mopars rule. lol.

[69fuchs]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

Who's talking FAST racing ? Those are blueprinted stroker race builds. The wedge engines are handicapped with a factory head, restrictive intake and exhaust manifolds. 

I'd put my 446 against any "crate" 426 or 472 hemi any day of the week.  Oh ya, and it cost about half to build what most people pay for the MP crate junk. 


Ron

How about a "crate" from tim at FHO?  I think you are walking  on thin ice with that statement.....

I got my stock street hemi (no blueprint or other monkey business) to run 12.82@106 in september. 

I like this combo on the strip against your edelbrock 446

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/155_0310_hemi_426_crate_engine_dyno_test/

[Hemidoug]

Well, the crank, rods and pistons are stock. The heads don't even flow as well as a "stock" hemi head. Hey i've only got one carburater to your two.  I guess the mighty hemi isn't up to a little heads up with a pump gas wedge.  Bring that badboy to Norwalk and ya....slicks are fine. 


Ron

If I ever make it over to Nowalk you have a race. Maybe we can settle this at Carlisle. There is a track near by.

If I understand your side of the discussion, it shouldn't matter what the heads flow. You are saying basically that "street Hemis are slugs" and a 440 6 pack would take one.  I'm saying, everything equal (stock vs stock) that the Hemi would win.  My car is basically stock. Stock bore and crank, stock intake and exhaust. I am running out of the box Mopar performance aluminum heads but they are un-ported. The only advantage is less weight. I am also running an Isky cam .510 lift 300 duration. I am running stock exhaust manifolds, intake and carbs.

I would like more detail on your setup. What are you running on the top end of the motor? 4spd or auto? Headers?

[69fuchs]

If I understand your side of the discussion, it shouldn't matter what the heads flow. You are saying basically that "street Hemis are slugs" and a 440 6 pack would take one.  I'm saying, everything equal (stock vs stock) that the Hemi would win.


                                     AMEN TO THAT

[firefighter3931]

Well, the crank, rods and pistons are stock. The heads don't even flow as well as a "stock" hemi head. Hey i've only got one carburater to your two.  I guess the mighty hemi isn't up to a little heads up with a pump gas wedge.  Bring that badboy to Norwalk and ya....slicks are fine. 


Ron

If I ever make it over to Nowalk you have a race. Maybe we can settle this at Carlisle. There is a track near by.

  My car is basically stock. Stock bore and crank, stock intake and exhaust. I am running out of the box Mopar performance aluminum heads but they are un-ported. The only advantage is less weight. I am also running an Isky cam .510 lift 300 duration. I am running stock exhaust manifolds, intake and carbs.

I would like more detail on your setup. What are you running on the top end of the motor? 4spd or auto? Headers?

Doug, i saw that track at Carlisle.  I guess a track is a track if ya want to call it that.  You ever go to the show at LVD ? That track is about 6hrs from here.  Maybe at the show in the fall (mopars at the valley)....if not Norwalk ?

So yours is an aluminum headed hemi.....that makes us even. 

Basic rundown on the 446 :

Stock crank, stock rods, Speedpro (stock replacement) pistons,10.5:1 static compression, pump gas, balanced rotating assembly....nuthing exotic.
Edelbrock heads, Street Dominator Intake, Holley double pumper
Comp Cams, single pattern 295* duration stick
Headers & full exhaust
Torqueflight
Dana 60

The car is all steel (no fiberglass), full interior, frame connecters, 8pt bar, ss springs, power steering, manual disc brakes. I'm pretty sure it'll be heavier than your hemi car with the added rollbar/frame connecters etc. 


So, whatchya think ? 



Ron

[Hemidoug]

Sounds like it could be a good run. Where is Norwalk? Where and what is LVD? There are a couple of tracks around Carlisle, which one are you talking about? I'm guessing you are in the Ohio area?

[69Chrgr]

Firefighter, how bout I bring my small block cuda up there for a little added fun. I'll give you a head start to make up for the weight and comp. difference. Or, why don't we all go on Pinks?

[firefighter3931]

Last I read the quickest F.A.S.T. class car was a Hemi.  :yesnod:I don't think the Wedge even cracked the top 5.

Who's talking FAST racing ? Those are blueprinted stroker race builds. The wedge engines are handicapped with a factory head, restrictive intake and exhaust manifolds. 

I'd put my 446 against any "crate" 426 or 472 hemi any day of the week.  Oh ya, and it cost about half to build what most people pay for the MP crate junk. 


Ron

How about a "crate" from tim at FHO?  I think you are walking  on thin ice with that statement.....

I got my stock street hemi (no blueprint or other monkey business) to run 12.82@106 in september. 

I like this combo on the strip against your edelbrock 446

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/155_0310_hemi_426_crate_engine_dyno_test/

FHO puts out some nice stuff....no arguement there. 

Your car is running excellent !  But even you would have to agree that those ET's are not typical of most street hemis. 


The MM 426 buildup is interesting but they added a lot of goodies to make it run the number on the pump ; big azz solid roller cam, electric water pump, Barton race single plane and a dominator. That's pretty far removed from a street hemi and a whole lot more than i've got.  The 446 runs a flat tappet, mechanical water pump, street intake and a 4150 carb. 

That is an impressive piece none the less...even i'll concede that ! 


Ron

[Hemidoug]

Firefighter, how bout I bring my small block cuda up there for a little added fun. I'll give you a head start to make up for the weight and comp. difference. Or, why don't we all go on Pinks?

Now THAT would be something wouldn't it? Except the giving up your car part of course.........

Firefighter...The edelbrock heads do more for the wedge then MP heads do for the Hemi, so it's not exactly even but closer then if I was running stock iron heads. Why don't you put stock exhaust manifolds on her to even it up a little more.

[firefighter3931]

Sounds like it could be a good run. Where is Norwalk? Where and what is LVD? There are a couple of tracks around Carlisle, which one are you talking about? I'm guessing you are in the Ohio area?

Doug, i'm up north....over the border, lol ! Approx 3hrs north east of Syracuse.

Norwalk is in Ohio, the event is in September....big show and race weekend. It's one of the Chrysler Classic events. That one is a 12hr tow for me. I try to go every year. Norwalk Ohio....1 hr from Cleveland.

LVD is Lebanon Valley Dragway....near Albany new your, i believe. They have an event in the fall but i've never been to it. That one would be halfway between us...i think ? You're in Jersey, right ?


Ya, that track in Carlisle was pretty sad....i don't know the name of it but it's an 1/8th mile with a big curve at the end ! 


Ron


Ps. Here's a few pics of the 68....guess i better get wrenchin !!! 

[Hemidoug]

LVD sounds like it would work. I've been there for the FAST races. They should have one in June, but we could meet anytime. I thought York was 1/4 mile....I've never been there, but it's an NHRA track that has a lot of history. Is that the one you are talking about? LVD sounds like a plan......


PS...The car is lookin' GREAT. What color are you going to paint it?

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter, how bout I bring my small block cuda up there for a little added fun. I'll give you a head start to make up for the weight and comp. difference. Or, why don't we all go on Pinks?

Pinks !!! Holy Crap....i'll race for BEER ! 

Honestly, there's no way i would ever take anyones car if i won....just too much heart and soul goes into these old beasts....but i have no problem with a case of suds ! 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

LVD sounds like it would work. I've been there for the FAST races. They should have one in June, but we could meet anytime. I thought York was 1/4 mile....I've never been there, but it's an NHRA track that has a lot of history. Is that the one you are talking about? LVD sounds like a plan......


PS...The car is lookin' GREAT. What color are you going to paint it?

Doug, the track i was referring to is an 1/8 mile run of (ripped up) asphalt in the woods  ....i think it's called Iron Mountain, or something like that. I haven't been to York...is that a nice facility ? I imagine it is....

LVD in the fall would be nice...cool weather and the cars run stronger. I think the LVD show is in early October...

The 68 is going triple black with a red tail stripe. Thanks for the compliment. With any luck, i'll have it at Carlisle. I just bought an enclosed trailer and picked up a tow vehicle in Sept....now i just gotta finish the freakin car ! 


Ron

[Charger-Bodie]

  take money out of the equation and it would be hemi all the way, atleast for me anyway, dont get me wrong wedge motors also demand respect,in one of my previous chargers i had a hughes stage II crate gine rated a 555 hp and 560 torque and it was an animal but a HEMI is the pinnicle of the muscle car era and i think we should not fight about that and just be thankful that HEMI is ours not gm HEMIs rule and someday my car will have one and thats that!

[69fuchs]

Firefighter,  your car is looking very good.  I think you have a well planned out project.  Your car is going to fly, no doubt about it.  I remember you talking about making a 472 crate hemi look sick against your engine which is very impressive.  What if YOU went through that crate hemi, with maybe a cam change,valve job, and some attention to detail.  It would cost much more than a wedge, but the results would be pretty spectacular.

The hemi in the mm article shows huge potential, and is still a 9 to 1, stock bore, stock stroke motor.  As far as the dominator/race intake/roller cam:  Ever checked out Jay Brown's 69 mustang with a FE engine?  Here is a pic.  He won hot rod drag week last year with it, drove track to track pulling a trailer, with his dominator/race intake/roller cam.  I don't think this stuff is anymore exotic than aftermarket cylinder heads, do you?

Making a hemi run takes some knowledge and time to sort things out.  It is not hard to keep a hemi in tune-I finally replaced my spark plugs in sept. after 8 full years of service.  Not much else has been done except driving and racing.