New Orleans Flooding

[SirNik73]

I was doing some research on the flooding that has happend in the aftermath of Katrina. I was looking for a aerial photo to show the damage. I'm in California and don't know much about New Orleans. We've had some leavees break and flooding up here in Northern CA I've seen my grandmas house in 12ft of standing water, so i was wondering how the whole city of New Orleans was able to flood. i found this news paper image on the internet from 2002 and it tells how the city "could" flood.... seems like they were predicting the future.

http://www.geog.umd.edu/homepage/courses/372/spr02/neworleans1.jpg

[Telvis]

They are below sea level and pretty much surrounded by water. They rely on an elaborate pump system to keep the city above water even during dry times. It's recipe for disaster.

[70charginglizard]

I feel really bad for those people but they really bring things like this upon themselves for living in a place like that.
Living on a flood plain area anywhere is idiotic to me.
This is the reason why homeowner insurance rates are so high. The intelegent people (who live where people should live) are paying for these people who live where they obviously shouldn't.
Close the whole area for good and let the aligators reinhabit the marsh.

[Stormhammer]

living there isnt that bad of an idea

what was a bad idea was those morons who thought it was bright enough to ride out a catagory 5 hurricane when the govt had a mandated evacuation... 

[Shakey]

I feel really bad for those people but they really bring things like this upon themselves for living in a place like that.
Living on a flood plain area anywhere is idiotic to me.
This is the reason why homeowner insurance rates are so high. The intelegent people (who live where people should live) are paying for these people who live where they obviously shouldn't.
Close the whole area for good and let the aligators reinhabit the marsh.

I feel really bad for those people but they really bring things like this upon themselves for living in a place like that.

So you don't feel that bad about what is happening to them!

Living on a flood plain area anywhere is idiotic to me.

You think they're stupid!

This is the reason why homeowner insurance rates are so high. The intelegent people (who live where people should live) are paying for these people who live where they obviously shouldn't.

Again, you think they are stupid and you and everyone else in the country is smart.   Oh yeah, except for the people in the mid-west where tornadoes touch down, and the folks in CA where wild fires ravage the land every summer, in the north east where ice storms can cripple a town in a matter of hours......

Close the whole area for good and let the aligators reinhabit the marsh.

Ya, good thinking.   Sure the price of gas will quadruple while the aligators are being trained to run the fuel refineries, but home insurance rates will drop.   Sounds like a pretty good idea!

c'mon charginlizard, take the chip off of your shoulder about the new charger and lighten up a bit.   If you can't be sympathetic, try being happy that you don't live there!

[SirNik73]

in 1900 then a Hurricane took Galveston Texas off the map... just like New Orleans now, the city of Galveston raised the city 17ft and build a Sea Wall to keep the ocean out. here is the story http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi865.htm
its going to take some a huge engineering undertaking to get the city of New Orleans back. the news reported that it is going to take 30 days once the leavees are patched to get all the water pumped out. my stepdad is in the business of water damage repair... he drys out drywall and it takes a few days sometimes.. and we are talking about small in the house leaks... by the time that people can get into the buildings in New Orleans there will be no way to dry out the buildings.... the whole city is gonna be like a soggy bowl of corn flakes. they are literally going to rebuild the whole city.... pretty much New Orleans is gone for at least 2 months... and then it will be like a year before the city is any where near being back on its feet. they might as well berry the city and raise the city, build a sea wall and keep the city out of the ocean. this is one of those events that will force America to be the creative industrial giant that we are... its time for us as Americans to rebuild that city so it can't fall into the sea again.  

[Telvis]

Tornado's are isolated, unpredictable and cause damage in a limited area. Ice storms don't destroy complete cities. When you build a city that is 12 feet below the surrounding bodies of water and rely upon pumps and levies to keep it dry it's a recipe for disaster. This was inevitable. This has been predicted for a very long time. Now that it's happened someone has to pay for the cleanup and repair. Guess who gets that bill?? You and me. If they rebuild the city this will happen again. It's inevitable. I pray for the people who have to suffer over this. It's a great tragedy. It should not be allowed to happen again The city was nearly destroyed in 1969 by a hurricane. It's   again been nearly destroyed in 2005. The loss of life should be enough to convince people not to rebuild there. Common sense should dictate.

[SirNik73]

The US needs a major port at the mouth of the Mississippi River... its the gateway to the whole center of the counrty... but there has to be a way to have the port and keep it above the water line. maybe it is time to build a port in land and away from the water... or raise the city as i was saying... those are he only options

[Telvis]

I'm watching Fox news right now. They have been interviewing people who are trekking through the flooded streets to leave the city. Many are pushing shopping carts full of what I would assume to be their belongings. I'm sure none is looted merchandise. Many are angry because help isn't reaching them. Several indicated they live in housing projects. Now I realize there were people who had no way out of the city. These people are able to get around in three feet of water. Why couldn't they go when the mayor ordered the city evacuated? There were shelters open at least a full day before this thing hit. Why didn't these people get to shelter? What part of "get out of the city" did they not understand? Everyone was predicting the worse case scenario. Now they want to gripe because no one can get to them. Who's fault is it?

[Steve P.]

One reason people don't leave is due to the WOLF syndrome.. Every time the weathermen say (THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BIG ONE), and it isn't, people get less afraid.. Many times these storms hit and very little damage is done.. People get used to it and even hardened by it..

Hell, I want to bug out every time we get heavy rain storms!!

[BigBlackDodge]

Poor planning
Poor preperation
Poor response




BBD

[Stormhammer]

but when its a GOVERNMENT MANDATED EVACUATION ... I mean COME ON - how often do you have those? honestly... this is the first time I heard of one of those ( but I dont listen to the news THAT much, so I know I'm probably going to be corrected with something about Florida )

[AKcharger]

I want to be a Looter just like the people in New Orleans!!!

[PocketThunder]

I'm watching Fox news right now. They have been interviewing people who are trekking through the flooded streets to leave the city. Many are pushing shopping carts full of what I would assume to be their belongings. I'm sure none is looted merchandise. Many are angry because help isn't reaching them. Several indicated they live in housing projects. Now I realize there were people who had no way out of the city. These people are able to get around in three feet of water. Why couldn't they go when the mayor ordered the city evacuated? There were shelters open at least a full day before this thing hit. Why didn't these people get to shelter? What part of "get out of the city" did they not understand? Everyone was predicting the worse case scenario. Now they want to gripe because no one can get to them. Who's fault is it?

[CFMopar]

I have to agree with most here. Not that I dont feel for the people suffering from this but why would u live below sea level when so close to water. It was bound to happen and it did.

[SirNik73]

I just found out that Sacramento has was raised to keep it from flooding.... and Seattle... seems like its not uncommon to raise cities

[Jon Smith]

The city wasn't below sea level when it was built, how many people would move away from somewhere they've lived all their lives because of a disaster that "might happen" there still loads of people living on fault lines on the west coast, there a huge volcano in yellowstone park, you dont see a mass exodus from those places
on the other hand they shouldn't rebulid "as is" below sea level

[Charger_Fan]

I want to be a Looter just like the people in New Orleans!!!

YOU CAN!! Today is your lucky day!!
For your complete "How-to guide for getting the most loot for the least work", just send $39.95 to Charger Fan, C/O Looters Anymous 318 North Center Street....

[Steve P.]

but when its a GOVERNMENT MANDATED EVACUATION ... I mean COME ON - how often do you have those? honestly... this is the first time I heard of one of those ( but I dont listen to the news THAT much, so I know I'm probably going to be corrected with something about Florida )

Yes you will!!!

[Lowprofile]

in 1900 then a Hurricane took Galveston Texas off the map... just like New Orleans now, the city of Galveston raised the city 17ft and build a Sea Wall to keep the ocean out. here is the story http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi865.htm
its going to take some a huge engineering undertaking to get the city of New Orleans back. the news reported that it is going to take 30 days once the leavees are patched to get all the water pumped out. my stepdad is in the business of water damage repair... he drys out drywall and it takes a few days sometimes.. and we are talking about small in the house leaks... by the time that people can get into the buildings in New Orleans there will be no way to dry out the buildings.... the whole city is gonna be like a soggy bowl of corn flakes. they are literally going to rebuild the whole city.... pretty much New Orleans is gone for at least 2 months... and then it will be like a year before the city is any where near being back on its feet. they might as well berry the city and raise the city, build a sea wall and keep the city out of the ocean. this is one of those events that will force America to be the creative industrial giant that we are... its time for us as Americans to rebuild that city so it can't fall into the sea again.  

You are absoultly Correct. We, as Americans, owe it to the people of New Orleans, and to ourselves to rebuild that city, and for that matter the whole gulf coast, better, safer, and DO IT CORRECTLY, no matter the costs. I, as a US taxpayer, would much rather see my tax dollar go to rebuilding the affected area, rather than paying for some congressman's pork barrell project, or some unappreciative country, who gets aid for their people from us, only to buy arms, or trinkets, or whatever, While their people suffer.

For a change, Let's show the world who we really are, and show each other that we care.

[Silver R/T]

hmm... remind me again why I dont wanna move to south

[Badbob]

They will upgrade the dikes and rebuild the city. America is not a land of quitters. There will be lots of jobs in the south. It may be the biggest comeback since the SF earthquake of 1906. Are Caifornians stupid for living along fault lines? Are Washingtonians stupid for living between volcanoes? How does a poor black man with no legs evacuate? This thread is becoming a joke, be an American and be part of the solution and stop pointing fingers and laying blame. I donated cash to the Red Cross, today, yesterday and the day before.

To see satellite images out the damage follow this link and click on the boxes, you will need to open the photos in a program with the ability to zoom:

http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM

Bob

[derailed]

heres a link with some photos of the damage

http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=14433

[Brock Samson]

 there was a paramedics convention in the Big Easy during Katrina,.. Just wait till ya see what happened to them!!!

[MoparYoungGun]

They are below sea level and pretty much surrounded by water. They rely on an elaborate pump system to keep the city above water even during dry times. It's recipe for disaster.

[TeeWJay426]

A couple of good photo sets of the damage attached.

http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/breakingnews/slideshow/083005_dmnkatrina/1.html

http://www.weather.com/newscenter/slideshow/katrina2.html

I've heard bits and pieces of some other interesting reports on the radio & TV, but didn't find any links to them. One dealt with a mid-2001 report that there were 3 major disaster scenarios that could be devastating to the US. One was a terrorist attack in NYC (this was pre-9/11), the second was a major hurricane hitting the Gulf of Mexico in the NO area, and the third was a major earthquake along the San Andreas fault in CA.
Another dealt with an LSU (? I think) computer study that simulated a cat 5 hurricane last year... a computer simulated an actual hurricane named Pamela to demonstrate to FEMA the effects on NO, which they were 'going to take under advisement to improve disaster preparations'.... and another showed a study over several years that showed the actual coastline in the NO area shrinking, due to the area literally sinking into the sea. Anybody else have any additional info on any of these? If nothing else, these show that Katrina and the devastation that followed shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.

[Brock Samson]

finally online...
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/09/BAGL1EL1KH1.DTL&hw=chip+johnson&sn=001&sc=1000

[bull]

Posted by: Jon Smith 
Insert Quote
The city wasn't below sea level when it was built, how many people would move away from somewhere they've lived all their lives because of a disaster that "might happen" there still loads of people living on fault lines on the west coast, there a huge volcano in yellowstone park, you dont see a mass exodus from those places
on the other hand they shouldn't rebulid "as is" below sea level

Actually I was reading a story about that in the Oregonian newspaper that said the man who founded New Orleans ignored warnings about potential flooding. Yes the city has dropped in elevation by as much as 20' but the founder knew the dangers of sinking and flooding from the get-go.

[bull]

For a change, Let's show the world who we really are, and show each other that we care.

I really doubt we're going to be able to save face after all that went on in New Orleans after the hurricane went through. The mayor of the city is a major embarrassment by himself with all his whining and cussing on TV rather than taking a leadership role and helping his citizens. He certainly makes Rudy Juliani look like more of a hero. And what's with the governess of Louisiana? Don't governors have the power to activate the Nation Guard in their own state? Still, I would imagine $51+ billion worth of tax dollars is a pretty good start, plus all the donations to the Red Cross and the fundraisers. John Grisham alone donated $5 million for relief in Mississippi.

It's not very politically correct of me to say this but I have to wonder how many tax dollars have already been spent through welfare on "arms, or trinkets, or whatever," by able-bodied citizens of New Orleans while other truly needy people suffer.

[jmanscharger]

The damage is massive. I'm beginning to wonder though if the city has been actually spared the deaths expected. Numbers were thrown around of 10,000. The 118 currently known is too high but things are causing me to wonder about the whole mess.
The school bus fleet not used to evacuate.
The red cross aid kept out of the superdome because local officials didn't want more people rushing there.
The governor refusing the national guard.
The $2000 debit card debacle, currently can't be handed out fast enough.
We have 500,000 people needing help, many of whom needed help before the hurricane, reality is that it was a mess before and it's going to get messier. Guys I'm not into conspiracy theories and don't doubt the damage and despair but managing this number of people in a disaster has not gone well. I talked with a law enforcement friend who railed about the corruption of law enforcement and government in New Orleans being one of the worst in the nation. Personally I'm giving to the Salvation Army because I know it goes for direct aid and not through as many levels of administration. I think we need to think critically not only about the poor first response but also how things are rebuilt because we're talking about a place that had massive problems already (corruption, 27% poverty, 25% literacy rate among high school graduates.

My church supports a inner city ministry in New Orleans and this is an article from before the hurricane.
http://sites.silaspartners.com/cc_article_email/1,,UFRJRDMyMzQyMnxDSElENjY0MDE0fENJSUQxNzcyNDE0,00.html

[andy74]

i gave blood and so sis my wife over the weekend,not having a lot of extra cash to donate-i guess it could be summed up in the immortal words of sam kinison"we have deserts in america,we just dont live in em,assholes!"why would you place your self in that type of an enviroment?i feel for all the people that were injured or killed,but what the hell,if your poor,move,youll be poor somewhere else,and still be alive-and i have also heard of the corruption in the new orleans police dept,been that way for years,but that doesnt have much to do with it,this has been prdeicted for years,and the GOVERNMENT should have heeded the warnings, sorry about the rant,but its on my mind

[SirNik73]

i've heard that all the professionals, the engineers and the poeple dealing with the levees said they wouldn't with stand a Catagory 3 storm. and then the weather service talked to the Govener and the mayor and nether one of them wanted to force the evacuation of  the city.  then when the federal goverment wanted to come in the Governer was tellign the troops where the could and couldn't go, keeping them from places like the super dome and other places that were filled with people to encurage the people to leave. yet the mayor had not called on the evacuation plan so those people were stuck there. it just seems stupid that the reason the poeple who got into trouble in New Orleans is because of the state and local goverment... the people who should know best how to deal with a local disaster.... why should the people have to wait til the federal goverment to come in to get any support. what the heck is the local goverment good for if they can't get people on a bus and get them out... isn't it the local goverments job to run the busses??

[jmanscharger]

We're hearing stories in the news now about 9-11 money that went as loans to folks that it shouldn't have... As I give money to help the victims directly , I really don't trust the local officials to use our national tax dollars efficiently to fix problems. The New orleans school system literally lost 25 million way before the hurricane , they still don't know where it went. We don't know the depth of New Orleans problems, we will have a chance to fix something that was very messed up OR a lot of money will be wasted. I am hoping for some accountability when we spend 50 billion, these people need help, and MUCH CHANGE.