HOLY CRAP!!!!!

[TruckDriver]

Yesterday when I woke up, gas prices were $2.69 for regular in Milwaukee and the area. This morning, I just saw over night, they jumped again to $3.25 a gallon for regular!!!!! I'm just waiting for people to start killing for gas. Rioting is already starting here. The Milwaukee sheriff had to take control of one gas station yesterday and actually pump the gas to keep control. One news camera man was attacked by a station owner when he was filming the owner putting up the new gas prices. And to think it is only going to get worse And just think............... Winter is coming. I can see about $400. a month or more to heat your house

[4402tuff4u]

Yes, absolutely!! I would like to see someone step up to the plate and do something about it!!!

[41husk]

I think if we can do two more easy take overs in the middle east.  It will be cheap gas for all the infadels

[Troy]

Gas prices drop in the winter due to lower demand. This current spike is because all of the refineries in the Gulf are offline due to some little hurricane or some other nonsense. Don't you guys read the news - they've been predicting this for days...

Troy

[derailed]

2 more easy takeovers??

[BigBlackDodge]

The reserves (oil) have been tapped and oil prices have dropped a bit. Lets see how long it takes for the consumer to see the benefits from it..............hahahaha! The only poeple it will help is the oil companys, they can still screw us over while being supplied by the government!

BBD

[Goldfinger71]

 The  presidient doesn't pump his own gas much less drives around in his own car.He does not REALLY understand how bad of a problem the gas situation is!

[andy74]

the only thing i find hard to believe is that the refineries shutting down on monday causes the gas to go up on wednesday?its a bunch of bullshit,they still have the same gas in there tanks!i filled the charger with premium yesterday morning at 2.69 a gallon,and this morning its 3.09!what the hell,ill have to start driving my neon more i guess,greedy bastards

[Telvis]

The   presidient doesn't pump his own gas much less drives around in his own car.He does not REALLY understand how bad of a problem the gas situation is!

What can the president do about the gas problem? The problem is lack of refinery capacity. No one has built a refinery in this country for more than 25 years. The environmentalist organizations have fought ferociously to block them being built. The president could release strategic oil reserves but they are useless unless the oil can be refined. If you want to gripe at someone go find a group of environmental extremists. They want the gas prices to be high. If the prices go up you will buy less gas and drive little econo box hybrid cars. That's their goal.

[Troy]

Edit: Telvis beat me to it.

Uh, do some research. There are 9 refineries in the area hit by the hurricane (I believe). Three will be out of commission for a while since they are flooded. The super tankers from the middle east offload there and the main gasoline pipeline to the entire middle of the country comes out of there as well. When the refineries shut down it causes the supply to drop drastically which automatically increases prices. When the gas in the storage tanks runs dry where will they get more? It's now a limited commidity which makes it more valuable. It doesn't matter how much oil is released from the Strategic Oil Reserves if the remaining refineries are runmning at capacity. This means we will have to purchase gasoline and refined oil from outside sources at a higher rate than we can make it ourselves. As for the President not knowing what we're going through... that's an ignorant statement (and I mean that in the nicest way). What would you like him to do to lower prices? Last time I checked he didn't have a magic wand. Please pick an idea that won't harm the country for the next 30 years if you don't mind.

Troy

[RD]

the funny thing is that the oil companies have been preaching about the price of gas going up due to the hurricane season, but they could not raise it up that much because there were no hurricanes.   Well now they have one and they are like "damn, finally" and boom they raise their gas prices accordingly.   The stock market was playing the hearsay game on the prices of oil in reference to hurricane season all this last month.   "It's hurricane season, the sky is falling, let's raise prices!"   So they did, but in small increments. (mind you, it is not like hurricanes just pop up out of nowhere like tornados do, you can actually see hurricane's coming for weeks in advance).

Well now the gas companies have had their big hurricane, and it could not come at a better time!   Labor Day weekend is this weekend! So now they can raise gas prices another 15 cents without any worry! Afterall, we citizens are conditioned to have higher gas prices each Labor Day weekend.   You can count on that as much as you can count on the sun rising each morning in the east.

The whole sad part about this, is that the individuals in Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, and Texas, who have had their lives destroyed now have to pay $3.00/gal in gas.   What a slap in the face by the oil companies.   

"hey there feller, yeah you. I understand your home is destroyed and all your valuables missing and maybe a couple family members are dead and all, but I just wanted to let you know that we appreciate our quarterly profits so much that with all your anguish, pain and suffering going on right now, let alone the fact that you are destitute and have to go to the salvation army to get food, we just wanted to say we hope you like paying $3.00 for a gallon gas.   We sure like it."

*edit*  I do believe that it was just last year that some refineries were busted out by employees stating that they were told not to have the refinery work at max capacity in order to keep prices at a set level in order to attain profits.  No offense Troy and Telvis, your ideas are sound, but I just do not have as much trust in the oil companies to believe anything that comes out of their mouths in regards to what levels their refineries are operating at.  Until someone can provide me with quantitative non-corrupted, right truthful facts and evidence, I will not change my mind.

[Telvis]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/11799595.htm

[1970440RT]

       Yes all!   We must let the government set the prices of gasoline.   While they are at it, the government can set the prices of all goods and services.   That is the only way to be fair, right?   We can't let the greedy corporations rake in profits.   How dare them.   OH WAIT A MINUTE...    That is communism.   We all know how that turned out.   If you need a refresher course, please visit Cuba.   Please research into the profit margins of a "greedy" oil company.   Not much.   Now research into the mark up that computer hardware and software companies put on there products.   I don't see anyone complaining about paying thousands for a computer, accessories and programs that will probably be obsolete in 5 years ( more like 2 ).   Their margin is obscene.   In the computer guys defense though, they go out on a limb and risk millions in R&D.   It is all relative.   The lack of refineries and ridiculous TAXES play the largest roll in the price of gasoline.   Please don't get whipped up into a frenzy by the mainstream media and their "investigative journalism"   We all know how trustworthy they can be ( 60 minutes )

My favorite line ever: "Sarcasm detector, yeah that's a real good invention. "   

[Telvis]

      Yes all!   We must let the government set the prices of gasoline.   While they are at it, the government can set the prices of all goods and services.   That is the only way to be fair, right?   We can't let the greedy corporations rake in profits.   How dare them.   OH WAIT A MINUTE...    That is communism.   We all know how that turned out.   If you need a refresher course, please visit Cuba.   Please research into the profit margins of a "greedy" oil company.   Not much.   Now research into the mark up that computer hardware and software companies put on there products.   I don't see anyone complaining about paying thousands for a computer, accessories and programs that will probably be obsolete in 5 years ( more like 2 ).   Their margin is obscene.   In the computer guys defense though, they go out on a limb and risk millions in R&D.   It is all relative.   The lack of refineries and ridiculous TAXES play the largest roll in the price of gasoline.   Please don't get whipped up into a frenzy by the mainstream media and their "investigative journalism"   We all know how trustworthy they can be ( 60 minutes )

My favorite line ever: "Sarcasm detector, yeah that's a real good invention. "   

Yep, what he said.

[1970440RT]

Telvis, you beat me to it.   The situation is way more complex than the oil company conspiracy controlling the price of gasoline.   

[RD]

no offense telvis, but this part of that article, makes me believe its BS:

High investment costs and low profits have discouraged the building of any new U.S. refineries since 1976. Absent new refineries, rising demand for gas will outpace American refiners' ability to make it.

Low profits? my azz.

What about this one:

And a new, modern refinery costs more than $2.5 billion. That seems like Mount Everest to an industry that's coming out of two decades of weak profits.

  wutever!!!

I wonder why everyone else in the U.S. considers growth over time based upon the increase in population when it comes to their businesses, except the oil industry?
In 1981, there were 324 refineries, but many closed between 1981 and 1996, when refining capacity exceeded the demand for gasoline.   

Thanks for the article Telvis, but one article will not convince me.   Matter of fact, I believe I am pretty well set in my ways on this one. I do not trust the oil companies. And from this mistrust I can never believe a word they say.   When was the last time you remember gas prices going up when a hurricane has hit that region of the gulf?

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/1988gilbert.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Ivan

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/HAW2/english/history.shtml#andrew

did the gas prices spike then like they have now when these hurricanes happened? afterall, it is the same region.

[RD]

      Yes all!   We must let the government set the prices of gasoline.   While they are at it, the government can set the prices of all goods and services.   That is the only way to be fair, right?   We can't let the greedy corporations rake in profits.   How dare them.   OH WAIT A MINUTE...    That is communism.   We all know how that turned out.   If you need a refresher course, please visit Cuba.   Please research into the profit margins of a "greedy" oil company.   Not much.   Now research into the mark up that computer hardware and software companies put on there products.   I don't see anyone complaining about paying thousands for a computer, accessories and programs that will probably be obsolete in 5 years ( more like 2 ).   Their margin is obscene.   In the computer guys defense though, they go out on a limb and risk millions in R&D.   It is all relative.   The lack of refineries and ridiculous TAXES play the largest roll in the price of gasoline.   Please don't get whipped up into a frenzy by the mainstream media and their "investigative journalism"   We all know how trustworthy they can be ( 60 minutes )

My favorite line ever: "Sarcasm detector, yeah that's a real good invention. "   

you got a point there.  but there are some things that can be discussed:

1) government regulation doesnt bother you when it comes to cheap telephone bills does it?
2) its socialism, not communism
3) You dont buy computer equipment, programs and software every 4-5 days as you would when you fill up your car now do you? apples to oranges
4) I base my opinions on what I research and understand, not from the media
5) A sarcasm detector, is a good invention.  You got one? How much you want for it?

[Shakey]

I think if we can do two more easy take overs in the middle east.   It will be cheap gas for all the infadels

Good idea!  

It's going so well isn't it?

[PocketThunder]

i'm selling my house right now and one reason is because i cant afford to heat it anymore.  Its a 1906 with bad windows and no insulation. 

[*]

The sky is falling.......

[1970440RT]

 ^{from RD:}      
you got a point there.   but there are some things that can be discussed:

1) government regulation doesnt bother you when it comes to cheap telephone bills does it?
2) its socialism, not communism
3) You dont buy computer equipment, programs and software every 4-5 days as you would when you fill up your car now do you? apples to oranges
4) I base my opinions on what I research and understand, not from the media
5) A sarcasm detector, is a good invention.   You got one? How much you want for it?




      RD, My comments weren't directed specifically at you but what seems to be the general public opinion that the oil companies are giant evil entities bent on making 100% profit.   They are much like any other industry where the avg profit margin is 2 to 10 percent.   I only spoke of the computer industry because I have firsthand info on it and my contacts ( one a CFO the other an asst. CFO ) agree with me 100% about the disparity between profits in the technology sector vs other industries.   Much akin to the .com bubble.   I also conceded that much of this money goes back into technology as R&D ( not kansas mafia RD but Research and Development ).

1. A little government regulation is not a bad thing ( ie: antitrust laws ).   Many other things are too much ( ie. current social security structure ).

2. Communism is basically governed socialism. My misguided freinds Marx and Lenin can attest to that.

3. Trying to compare large industries showing the difference in profit margin.

4. Good that you do.   Most people don't.

5. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who has a Sarcasm detector.   I bought mine from Troy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm upset that gas prices have gone up as you are but I believe your anger is wrongly directed.  Also, the gas prices will go up even higher before they come down.  Supply and demand is not always good news.  The market will adjust the prices itself, where they will land is anyones guess.

[Telvis]

Government regulations do bother me including my phone bill. Regulations lead to taxes and more bureaucracy. These huge profits that we are talking about add up on average to about a 7.2% annual proffit margin for oil companies for the last 15 years. Sure it's easy to show huge dollar amounts and say it's a big profit. When you look at it as a percentage of what is invested it doesn't look so big. Industry exists to make money for their stockholders. If the business you work for doesn't make a profit they close down and you are out of a job. The oil companies must make a profit. They are not welfare agencies. I don't hear anyone complaining about the 24% average tax rate on gas. That's more than three times the profit margin the oil companies are making. I want to know why I pay high taxes on almost everything I buy and use. My phone bill, cable, gas, electric, water,internet,cell phone,gasoline,retail purchases and my paycheck are all taxed. I could save a ton of money if those were reduced. Forget the oil companies. It's the government that's bleeding us dry.
I don't hear anyone griping about how the environmentalists have forced the oil companies to make dozens of different formulations of gas. That drives the price up. The environmentalists block every attempt to drill for domestic sources of oil or build newer more efficient refineries. Then when the price goes up the same people want to complain that the prices are too high and blame the greedy oil companies.

Yes RD, the storms did cause prices to spike. Ivan in particular caused a 20% spike in prices.

[NHCharger]

How does $4.00/gallon sound?
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes

[RD]

but I believe your anger is wrongly directed.  

no worries man, not angry at all, hard to tell emotions with forums.  I am just participating in a great discussion that you guys are in also.  I am learning from you all, just as I hope you are learning from me.  I love it!

kansas mafia R&D, hmmmmm I like the ring to that! where are my block grants from the state!

[RD]

How does $4.00/gallon sound?
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes

i am moving to live with Nacho down in Venezuela.

[Charger_Fan]

i'm selling my house right now and one reason is because i cant afford to heat it anymore.   Its a 1906 with bad windows and no insulation.  

My lips are sealed, I won't tell that to anyone interested in your house.


I think I'll tune up my daily driver now...maybe I can squeak another MPG out of it.

[The Mad Scientist]

I heard from someone in the oil and gas industry that $3.11 was a magic number.  It's based on calculations of

S.U.V.'s

Loans on S.U.V.'s

Cost of maint.

Cost of gasoline

And other various factors I have forgotten 

The formula is designed to find the price at which the average person can no longer afford to buy gasoline. 

I wonder if that has something to do with the riots that are starting to pop up?  ( warning warning sarcasm detected sarcasm detected )

[TruckDriver]

I was listening to a talk radio show this morning and they actually got one of the state regulaters that regulate the states gas prices to ADMIT that part of the reason they raise the gas prices higher then they need to be is to discurage people from driving so much. But he also said that it is NOT working. Well DAAA!

[twilt]

Here in the Atlanta area  this evening there is chaos. people lining up at gas stations to fill up. many stations have run out. The corner store near my house
raised their prices to $4.89 a gallon. I believe it was $2.59 this morning. There were people inside the store cussing out the emplyees (indian owned and operated) and employess cussing back at the irate customers.  I really thought it might become violent. i understand that someone called the newspaper and tv satations to report the gouging. under pressure, they did drop it to $3.89 At my job, there was rumor being spread that the governor had ordered all pumps to be shut off at 6pm.   Grocery stores are also mobbed. My wife went to Autozone this evening to return a incorrect radiator that i had bought for my truck. Sales of locking gas caps was extremely high. apparently there has been a lot of gas siphoning going on today. One customer stated that his had been siphoned empty in broad daylight. Tonight,  i am going to park our vehicles side by side as to make the gas caps inaccessible. I sure  hope tommorow is a better day. 

[ChargerBill]

Hey guys, stop making sense and just let the conspiracy theorists pontificate...or was that "deficate"...I always get those two mixed up.

Hey, no one LIKES paying this much for gas...maybe it's time to get over it.

BTW: with all these chicken littles running around (Jim...you're right on target) here I'm feeling like we should start a big DodgeCharger Chicken BBQ...I want a breast - white or dark meat anyone?

[NHCharger]

How does $4.00/gallon sound?
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes

i am moving to live with Nacho down in Venezuela.

Read an interesting article yesterday. Even with all the oil money now pouring into Venezuela the inflation rate this year is at 18%. Next year they are predicting 25%.

Over on moparts there was a thread (now locked of course) about gas prices. I replied that after seeing the pics of New Orleans and the surrounding areas I felt guilty about complaining about gas prices. A mod deleted my post, apparently it was  to offensive.

[BigBlackDodge]

Here in the Atlanta area   this evening there is chaos. people lining up at gas stations to fill up. many stations have run out. The corner store near my house
raised their prices to $4.89 a gallon. I believe it was $2.59 this morning. There were people inside the store cussing out the emplyees (indian owned and operated) and employess cussing back at the irate customers.   I really thought it might become violent. i understand that someone called the newspaper and tv satations to report the gouging. under pressure, they did drop it to $3.89 At my job, there was rumor being spread that the governor had ordered all pumps to be shut off at 6pm.     Grocery stores are also mobbed. My wife went to Autozone this evening to return a incorrect radiator that i had bought for my truck. Sales of locking gas caps was extremely high. apparently there has been a lot of gas siphoning going on today. One customer stated that his had been siphoned empty in broad daylight. Tonight,   i am going to park our vehicles side by side as to make the gas caps inaccessible. I sure   hope tommorow is a better day.  

I think gouging is illegal in Ga only when a 'state of emgergency' has been issued.....................this should has been done if only to prevent the 4.89 a gallon idiots. I would never do buisness with that store again............for anything, ever! Last year Ga did issue a state of emergency when all the storms hit Florida, this in my opinion keep all the hotel/gas station owners from reaming everyone coming for refuge.

BBD

[volk68]

I don't expect the government to control gas prices or get into heavy regulation, but there are some things they really could stand to do in this situation.  Chief among those things is to REDUCE TAXES on gasoline    The tax rate per gallon of gasoline hasn't dropped one bit, despite the open public outcry.  I don't know about you, but I would be more than happy to let 1 or 2 road projects languish for another year if it would reduce gas prices to a more reasonable rate.  My understanding is that some 36% of the final price per gallon of fuel is tax.  That is a substantial amount of money per gallon and a significant reduction in it would be a huge savings to anyone with any real length of commute.

Furthermore, the government can dramatically reduce the cost of gas in the long term by taking a much more economically rational approach to gasoline refinement and environmentalism.    Environmentalists should not be allowed to override refinery expansion if it is shown to be in the best interest of the vast majority of citizens.  They can also reach better compromises on fuel additives and other cost raising factors. 

In short, the government could help with this problem.  They can't completely fix it, but they could sure lessen the burden a bit.

[volk68]

Over on moparts there was a thread (now locked of course) about gas prices. I replied that after seeing the pics of New Orleans and the surrounding areas I felt guilty about complaining about gas prices. A mod deleted my post, apparently it was  to offensive.

I don't think it is offensive, and I can understand what you are thinking here.  That said, while I feel horrible about the hurricane and the damage it did down south, I don't feel any less concerned about the growing number of rural Americans that are being put in really serious bind over fuel costs.  There are a lot of different businesses that will really struggle to survive this gas crisis, and lots of families that could suffer some serious ramifications as well.  One tragedy doesn't overshadow another.

[Troy]

I need to find a source for where to send complaints about gouging. Around here, most stations are $3.05-3.09 for regular but one station down the road was $3.69. During 9/11 I think they said to notify the District Attorney but I'll have to verify that. From what I understand the owners can still be prosecuted even without a state of emergency declared.

Troy

[Troy]

I don't expect the government to control gas prices or get into heavy regulation, but there are some things they really could stand to do in this situation.  Chief among those things is to REDUCE TAXES on gasoline    The tax rate per gallon of gasoline hasn't dropped one bit, despite the open public outcry.  I don't know about you, but I would be more than happy to let 1 or 2 road projects languish for another year if it would reduce gas prices to a more reasonable rate.  My understanding is that some 36% of the final price per gallon of fuel is tax.  That is a substantial amount of money per gallon and a significant reduction in it would be a huge savings to anyone with any real length of commute.

I posted the data on RD's thread about lowering the speed limits. The Federal Gas Tax is 18.4 cents per gallon and the average state tax is 22 cents per gallon. It isn't a percentage of the cost so as the price goes up the percentage taken in is less (and demand drops so the revenue generated goes down as well). The government wants us to buy more gas in this case so it is in their best interest to have lower prices.

Troy

[volk68]

If the tax is hard set the government only loses money as demand for the product is reduced.  While this may happen, it's not as if the government had suddenly removed their +\-.36 cents per gallon, therefore, they make the same money per gallon as they always did.  Until there is clear evidence that demand and purchasing of fuel has declined, the government is still getting all of their cut.  My proposal is that they at least lessen their cut during a fuel crunch like this.

[TheGhost]

You know they are never gonna do that.  The Goverment does not like to lessen the ammount of $$ they take in.  Would be nice, though.

[Troy]

I was just stating the actual numbers - what they will do with it is a different matter. Most all of the revenue goes to the highway department so hopefully it isn't squandered on a bunch of useless stuff (other than those walking/biking trails added to this year's budget - they aren't highways).

Troy

[Bluebeast]

It's gonna be like the Road Warrior pretty soon...looking for the juice.

[Charger_Fan]

It's gonna be like the Road Warrior pretty soon...looking for the juice.

Hah! That's what I keep thinking of too! 

I guess in New Orleans right now, it would be more like Waterworld.

[Steve P.]

Hey guys, stop making sense and just let the conspiracy theorists pontificate...or was that "deficate"...I always get those two mixed up.

     I needed a good laugh!!