Am I getting raped?

[suburbanfireman]

Hi guys.  I just recieved a quote for $9,000-10,000 for the paint job on my 68 Charger.  The car is completely gutted.  The only rust repair needed on the car is two holes about the size of my little finger in the bottom rear window corners.  The entire bottom of the car has been stripped / por-15 / and painted already.  (That is when I discovered that I really do not want to paint this car in my attached 2-car garage - what a mess  .)  The car will need to be block sanded and a few dings / scratches may need to be filled, but all in all it is a seal and squirt job.  I haven't had a vehicle painted in about 15 years, and it cost me $2500.00 back then.  I don't want to sound like a cheap-skate, but I was figuring $5,000-$6,000 for the job.  Am I way off?  Thanks for any input or opinions and have a Merry Christmas. 

[41husk]

I think most people will tell you a good paint job will run more than 10k,  I was quoted 20K to paint my 70 Challenger Convertible,  They don't even have to sand shoot or wet sand the roof ,  I can't afford that and there are places that will paint for under 5k.  Just remember you get what you pay for.  Several people have gone for the bargain been out part of their money and never get the car done.  Who ever shoots it make sure you talk to some other people who have had work done by that person.  If he can't give you contact info on any one who ownes a car he has done, do you really want him to touch your car?

[suburbanfireman]

I will say that the guy has a pretty good reputation for his work.  It is a legit shop (not a back yard thing), and he did some collision work on my Dad's truck.  My Dad told me about this guy, but my Dad's truck was an insurance job - kind of hard to figure a true price from his experience.  Here are the reasons I am leaning toward using this guy.  He is a Mopar guy - he has his personal 1967 barracuda in the shop being painted now.  He showed me pics of the 1970 Super Bee that he owned and raced for 5 years.  I hear horror stories about guys taking too long - this guy was honest enough to tell me that it will take 9-12 months because he will work on it between collision projects (gives me more time to save money).  I guess I am just stuck in the early 90's on the money thing.  I wish my salary would increase as much as body shop rates have increased in the last 15 years!!  Thanks for the input.

[72chargerSE]

I really don't think so...

My rust free ( I mean Rust Free!) New Mexican Charger set me back $7,200 in April 2001. The car had about 100 door dings, as it spent most of it's life in a parking lot.

It's the materials that have gone through the roof!

[Charger-Bodie]

  I wish my salary would increase as much as body shop rates have increased in the last 15 years!! it probley has . you probley had something a lot less done for 2500. in the 90s it takes alot of work and talent to make a car as nice as we all want them to be {especialy 2nd gen chargers} and just like you a body man has a family dreams and other expenses to try to reach ,200 hours @ 50.00 per hour is not that bad if you think about it

[suburbanfireman]

I guess you are right.  Thank god Troy stopped me from buying one of those heaps of steaming sh%* that are sold in Lake Villa, Ill.  It would probably cost me $30,000 to fix one of those!!!  I will probably drop the car off Saturday morning after I get off shift.  By the way - I was not trying to piss off all the body men in the world, I just did not have a baseline to figure if I was getting a good / bad deal.  You guys make me feel better about my guy.  Now on to the side jobs to earn extra $$$.  Thanks again, and Merry Christmas guys.

[Blown70]

I do not think that price is too far off.  However it depends on the type of final outcome you want.  You want some orange peel look and a true scuff and shoot.  Or a car you are going to show and enjoy?

Tom

[suburbanfireman]

Is there such a thing as a good looking race car??  That is the look I am going for.  My car has a 10-pt roll bar, subframe connectors, set up to put 4-link in it when I have the money - BUT it is also an A/C car that will have newer model power seats + the back seat for my kiddo's.  (I know - I'm a wierdo.  )

P.S. - Hey Blown70 -> The picture below your screen name kinda gave me a "chubby". 

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Yo,
  My pal is doing the paint and body on my 73' Rally and I was wondering the same thing myself. The guy is an experienced body/paint man and I have seen his work on other Mopars.
   Anyway, I am being charged $3000 for body and paint. Paint extra. Mt dude blasted the entire car, patched with metal and welds where needed. Paint the trunk,jams,engine compartment, took all the trim and locks etc..., all off. He has spent about 50 HRS on the car so far. His price started at $2500 and went up to $3000. I guess I can't complain.
BMOTOXSTAR#079

[suburbanfireman]

I have always liked the 73 Chargers (year I was born / dropped on my head).  I always wanted to find one and make it look like Buddy Baker's Nascar for that year.  (Red with white numbers and black wheels).  It sounds like you will be getting a better deal than me.  I need to find buddies that do bodywork - all my buddies are stupid fireman!  Your 73 will probably be done before mine too!

[BMOTOXSTAR]

I think I have a die cast car of Buddy Baker.
I just hope that the body work holds up for a few years. My last Charger was a original survivor car and it kills me to have to put patches on a Charger. even though metal is being used and it is prepped nice, I still feel leary.
At first I was pissed cause he jacked the price up $500, but for $3000 I guess I should not complain.

BMOTOXSTAR#079
 

[dkn1997]

It can be said that once you commit to spending that kind of dough on paint, you pretty much cannot drive the car anymore.  I would be fuming if my 10k paint job got banged into by some kid at a cruise night or if I use it to go get icecream with the family and some douche in a corolla door dings me...

about 7 years ago, when I was having my short block done at a local shop, I was talking to the owner.  I was telling him how now that the motor work was coming to a close, I was getting quotes for paint.  My car was pretty clean, but needed to be taken down to metal due to 2 previous repaints.  I was getting quotes of 6-7k.  I had the money, but the owner of the engine shop asked me how I'd feel getting the first road rash after spending that kind of money.  He was right, in the last 7 years, I put a scratch in it reinstalling some trim, (dumb ass)  my new be cool radiator fell on the front pas fender, rear valance got a slight "kiss" at the local cruise night.  plus numerous other little mishaps that come when using a car.  I ended spending 2000 for paint/stripping to metal,  and another 500 to have it wetsanded and the stripe put on.  for 2500.00, I have paint, that while not perfect, shines like a mirror and I don't feel that bad when something happens to it. 

just another point of view.  also, my paint took a bit of a beating because I cannot leave well enough alone and I am always working on it.  I try to be careful, but in a crowded garage, like most of us, things happen. plus add a couple of rugrats who play in the driveway on scooters/bikes while you are washing and you can get some incidental damage.  Of course, I have never been one to be a Nazi and ream people for getting within 10 feet of the car. 

It all depends on how you will use the car I suppose.

[bill440rt]

Yo,
  My pal is doing the paint and body on my 73' Rally and I was wondering the same thing myself. The guy is an experienced body/paint man and I have seen his work on other Mopars.
   Anyway, I am being charged $3000 for body and paint. Paint extra. Mt dude blasted the entire car, patched with metal and welds where needed. Paint the trunk,jams,engine compartment, took all the trim and locks etc..., all off. He has spent about 50 HRS on the car so far. His price started at $2500 and went up to $3000. I guess I can't complain.
BMOTOXSTAR#079

Just a little curious, but are "experienced bodymen" still using "red lead" these days??
Not trying to downplay his work, but that stuff is severely outdated. That's a great price, dirt cheap.

Suburban, $9-10K should get you a nice show car paint job, if your car is point & shoot ready as you state. For that price, they should be sanding & buffing the entire car. Do they need to shoot the roof, or is it a vinyl top car? Even if it's getting a top, they should still address the roof.
If it still has a few dings, scratches, etc, it's not exactly point & shoot. There'll be much prep work to do by the shop. In order to guarantee their work, most higher end shops will strip & start all over again. They won't like to spray over someone else's body work, & it keeps complaints from coming back later down the road.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

I am glad I posted that pic. Is red lead bad? That is why I was leary on him. Like I said i have seen his work on a Mopar, a Cuda to be exact and it has not bubbled up in 10 years. But I guess for the price I should not complain. What is up with red lead? Used to fill the dings? I know a little about body work and paint but not much.
Thank you, BMOTOXSTAR#079

[bill440rt]

If used sparingly (VERY sparingly), it's not bad, just outdated. The main problem is that it shrinks. It cures by evaporation (like lacquer), rather than catalyzation (modern 2-part systems). The 2-part systems have less shrinkage, & hold up better. Red lead is also inexpensive, which may explain the low price he quoted you. The reason? He's skimping on materials. Is that gray primer lacquer primer?? That may, or may not, crack over time. Anything lacquer based is actually very fragile. It's very sensitive to temperature changes, humidity, etc. It cracks over time.
Do you have any pics of this car blasted? I'm curious as to why the bodywork on the front half looks completed, but yet the back half has yet to be blasted, there's still paint & rust visible.

Again, I'm only looking at 2 pictures. Not trying to downplay anyone's work at all, but sometimes there's a correlation between the price that is quoted & the work that's being done. Basically, you get what you pay for.

[suburbanfireman]

Bill440Rt - You have sharp eyes!!!  I guess it helps when you know what to look for.  My 68 was coded for a vinyl top, but it was removed by the previous owner.  The shop will weld in the holes for the check-mark trim, and they are removing the crummy paint that was put on by the previous owner.  I started to sand it down to the original color before I dropped it off.  The shop owner feels comfortable sealing and shooting over the original paint because it has not bubbled for the last 37 years.  You guys make me feel a lot better about the price I was given - I guess I need to get with the times.  There are a few small dings here and there, but the car already has new quarters and floor pans.  I am having the shop paint the car with acrylic enamel (with hardener in it), that way I can buff-out or repaint damaged sections if needed.  Some people might think I am an idiot, but I plan on abusing (a little bit) my car at the drag strip.  I have a .30 over 440 sitting on an engine stand, 4.56 rear gear, manual shift auto tranny with 2800 rpm converter, and a ten point roll bar in it now.  I feel that these cars were made to be driven hard, and even after my modifications I have less money into the car than new mustang gt.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Suburbanfireman... Why didn't you put all this information in your first post? I thought that you were paying top dollar (but fair) for a show quality paint job with a base/clear, panel/door/gap alignment, pro job.

It sounds like you are getting an Earl Shieb or Macco, $99.00 paint job for $10,000 dollars!

Do I understand you right that they are not even going to take it down to bare metal, and instead are shooting a single stage enamel over the original paint for $10,000?

If this is the case, the answer to your original question is YES YOU ARE GETTING RIPPED OFF!

I'm sorry to make you feel bad about your decision, but based on the new information, I doubt that anyone who posted about the fairness or reasonableness of the price (based upon your other posts), will disagree with me!

Unless there is even more to the story, your chosen painter is a genuine thief, even if what he is doing is not considered "Grand Theft" in the legal world. In my opinion (based on the story as it now stands), he is even worse than a thief in as much as he is raping a civil servant (I'm assuming, based on your screen name), who may be called upon to save him or his own at some time FOR FREE! --- What a low life he is!

My suggestion is to go get your car back and take it to a real painter who will do ALL the work in a reasonable period of time, or if you are really satisfied with what HE was planning on doing, do it yourself and take your family on the vacation of a lifetime with the $9,000+ you save.

I apologize for this rant, but it enrages me to see people getting ripped off. Is it any wonder why "Buy American" is becoming a laughable mantra anymore?

[Charger-Bodie]

in light of this new information i also agree that you are indeed getting torn off....and ta boot you couldnt beg me to leave the 38 year old paint under something i was doing and acrilyc enamal is a tough product but not costly by and means so unless youre car needs tons of body labor....or hes putting ALL of it together or something we have not been told DONT DO IT

[dkn1997]

 

I would not dump 10k into paint for a  car that is admittedly going to be "driven hard" and has most of the body work done already.  about 1/2 of what you were quoted sounds fair. 

[suburbanfireman]

I will try to be as complete as possible on the work being done, then you guys can make a better decision.  From my understanding he will finish sanding the car down to original paint.  Then fix/repair my two rust holes, door dings, weld holes for check-mark trim closed, etc.  I handed him the car completely gutted and disassembled.  I will bring him the fenders, hood, trunk as he needs them.  My rear valence is smashed, so I bought a repop rather than repair the original (bodyman will weld it in), and I have a new front valence.  The car already has new quarters, trunk pans, and full floor pans installed.  He will primer / seal the original paint and new bodywork, and he will paint my interior and roll cage.  I had already stripped off all the undercoating, por-15 the whole bottom, and then painted the bottom myself - but didn't like the color, so the bodyman will reshoot the color on the bottom.  There should not be any other "hidden sins" because I would think that I would have found them when I gutted the car.  Am I still getting hosed?  Thanks for your time / opinions guys!

[Charger-Bodie]

8500.00  and INSIST all of the paint come off the car one other thing that will make some dif is how well the 1/4 panels were installed .........................................and remember this is all based only on the info provided

[BigBlockSam]

  think most people will tell you a good paint job will run more than 10k,  I was quoted 20K   

you guys are nuts . thats alot of wood for a paint job . clearcoat base coat , $2000 to $2500 . thats with a little  bodywork then block sanding and prep .  Rene

[Drop Top]

As many on this board already know. I have been restoreing these type of cars for well over 10 years and before that I did it as a hobbie. I started painting at 13 and I'm 48 now. Even with the lesser quaility paint. Its not a bad price as long as the work is done right! It still takes time to do all of the work you mentioned. It still takes tallent to SHOOT the paint (anybody can squirt paint). Regardless, if your going to cut and buff all takes time. Its nothing to spend $10,000 alone just for body work in my shop. I happen to be one of those guys that work out of my back yard. This keeps my over head way down and this I pass on to my customers. Of corse my shop is an old farm shop and is bigger then most houses. I live on 150 acers so I have plenty of room. I don't worry too much about being bussy. I have 4 cars in the shop right now and have some waiting outside the shop waiting to get inside. I have a waiting list. Anyway getting back to the question at hand. If the work is done right and your happy in the end thats what counts. Without seeing the car first hand and stripped its really hard to give a good price. As long as the base paint is in good shape and the right sealer is sprayed over that you wont have any problems. You cant put any better sealer then what the factory did already. But if you need take all of the non original paint off and the original paint must be in good shape to do it this way. It takes alot of time to strip a car by hand and time is money. Then you have the little problems that crop up after the stripping is done. 99% of the cars I do. The paint comes off by plastic media blasting. This leaves nothing hidden. The car goes on a rotissory and work is carried on from there. Remember I do rstorations. the last car I finnished. (69 GTO) He drove it in and drove it out. Every nut and bolt was taken off and restored or replaced. The frame powder coated the drive train was rebilt everything on the body was painted Base/clear and the cut and buffed. The compleat car from buying it to the finnished product out the door. He had right at $40,000 in it. Of corse thats not what was spent in my shop. I sent out the frame, motor work chromeing and headliner. So when you look at it from a differant angle $10,000 to paint your car isent bad. By the way I DON"T give estimates I charge strickly time and materials. Materails keep going up every year. 20 years ago I could paint a car for under $100. I cant even buy the sand paper I use for that now. Its nothing to spend $1500 on materials. I'm painting a Camaro for a 16 year old right now. The paint is over $200 a qt! thats right a qt. takes 1.5 gallons to paint thei car. Thats not bad. I just painted a merc for another shop. The paint was a Prowler color the burnt orange color. He bought 2 gallons color and 2 Gallons of clear. The paint was PPG and the cost was $300 a qt. the clear was $200 a gallon. The owner of the car came buy and looked at it in the sun loght. Loved the out come but hatted the color. The car is going black tomarow. If you have seen his work and like it. If he will stand behind his work and wont dissapear 6 months latter. Then pay the man the $10,000. I just wish you would up grade to at least a better paint then equipment enamel. A good single stage uerithane would be a better choice.

[NYCMille]

It all depends on what you want from your car... the body on my car was done when I purchased it, but done to the tune of 18k for paint and body. Now, yes that is a lot of money, but to be honest it is one of the best paint jobs I have EVER seen, so as the old saying goes I guess you get what you pay for... (I'm just glad the previous owner paid for it) and not me.

[440mag]

My car is in the shop right now.  It is going to be close to $11,000 when it rolls out complete.  That does not count the money spent on door and hood hinges, bumpers, bright work, door, window and trunk seals and other small things that all add up. $$$
I have seen my painters work on several cars and had been waiting my turn to get in his shop.  Triple black will be worth the wait & $ to be done right.