Porting heads

[Silver R/T]

Anyone here attempt to port heads?

[moparguy01]

yes. my advice to you is dont. not worth it unless you know what your doing.

[Ghoste]

With the recent advances and availability of aftermarket aluminum heads, the days of the home porter are not so common.   Moparguy is right Silver, unless you know what you are doing and what results you are looking for, your best bet is to buy something ready made.

[firefighter3931]

The MP porting templates work pretty good for a street type build. The key is to concentrate in the bowl area and leave the rest alone. The big mistake most guys make is hogging out the ports and that will kill off the low and midrange flow.  The later 452's respond quite well to a bowl port and it can result in 25-30cfm flow increases which will typically yield 50hp with the right matching parts. 


While i agree the E-Heads are fantastic.....they're not in everyone's budget. If you're running a .500 lift hydraulic cam, a set of bowl ported iron heads will work quite nicely. 


Ron

[Ghoste]

Guessing from the other car parts Silver asks about though, I'm guessing his budget is fairly large?

[moparguy01]

Guessing from the other car parts Silver asks about though, I'm guessing his budget is fairly large?

or champagne dreams on a beer budget?

[Silver R/T]

Guessing from the other car parts Silver asks about though, I'm guessing his budget is fairly large?

what other car parts in particular?

[Silver R/T]

Guessing from the other car parts Silver asks about though, I'm guessing his budget is fairly large?

or champagne dreams on a beer budget?

like I said before, iif you've got problem with me pm me. Do not make stupid disrespectful replies on board

[Silver R/T]

With the recent advances and availability of aftermarket aluminum heads, the days of the home porter are not so common.   Moparguy is right Silver, unless you know what you are doing and what results you are looking for, your best bet is to buy something ready made.

Doesnt mean I cant practice. Lots of old heads are available from local junk yard for practice.

[Silver R/T]

The MP porting templates work pretty good for a street type build. The key is to concentrate in the bowl area and leave the rest alone. The big mistake most guys make is hogging out the ports and that will kill off the low and midrange flow.  The later 452's respond quite well to a bowl port and it can result in 25-30cfm flow increases which will typically yield 50hp with the right matching parts. 


While i agree the E-Heads are fantastic.....they're not in everyone's budget. If you're running a .500 lift hydraulic cam, a set of bowl ported iron heads will work quite nicely. 


Ron

Eddie heads are portable too. Chryco Psycho is willing to port them for XXX amount

[moparguy01]

Guessing from the other car parts Silver asks about though, I'm guessing his budget is fairly large?

or champagne dreams on a beer budget?

like I said before, iif you've got problem with me pm me. Do not make stupid disrespectful replies on board

Actually you never once said that before. Maybe you could try saying that first before making out and out lies. And besides I was being truthful, Its really not worth doing it because you can hurt the flow more than help it if you dont know what your doing. and I merely offered a suggestion as to why you talk about high dollar parts when asked. Get over yourself, ya aint that great kid.

[Silver R/T]

Guessing from the other car parts Silver asks about though, I'm guessing his budget is fairly large?

or champagne dreams on a beer budget?

like I said before, iif you've got problem with me pm me. Do not make stupid disrespectful replies on board

Actually you never once said that before. Maybe you could try saying that first before making out and out lies. And besides I was being truthful, Its really not worth doing it because you can hurt the flow more than help it if you dont know what your doing. and I merely offered a suggestion as to why you talk about high dollar parts when asked. Get over yourself, ya aint that great kid.

Ive asked if someone here did it before. I did not state that I would do it ok? Why can't you read sentence and understand it?! I know some spanish but not that good at it.

[i c e b l u e]

I diagree as long as you do your hw and error on the conservative side, great gains can be had by self porting. Like firefighter said mp makes templates for the bowl work. Also if you check out moparmusclemagazine.com and search in their tech archives for "porting" you will find several helpfull articles. Two of them are extremely helpful, they list the diferences between the head types as well as good photos and insights on where and where not to port. The article also tells the critical points of where you may hit water(like on the shortside turn, or the back of the bowl) I did minor bowl work on my 906 heads which I later had flowed. they flowed 245 cfm which wasn't bad for only slight work. I have recently been working with a porter who has been doing it for litterlally 30 years. I ported a set of indy amc 401 heads with his advice and I followed the numbers off the same kind of heads he had ported for another job within 5cfm. So as long as you are willing to learn and spend the time it is worth it and it is something you won't forget.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have ported a LOT of Mopar heads with great results but I agree with the rest that you need to know what you are doing or you can make the heads flow worse then stock

[firefighter3931]

I did minor bowl work on my 906 heads which I later had flowed. they flowed 245 cfm which wasn't bad for only slight work.

Iceblue....nice work !  A 245cfm head will support 500hp with the right parts. 



Ron

[Challenger340]

I've been racing & porting Mopar heads for 25 yrs now, and have been a WD dealer with the likes of INDY, BRODIX, etc., for most of that time.
And YES, I use a flow bench.

Street type iron head port jobs, as Firefighter3931 points out, using the mopar templates, are well within the scope of anybody's realm, who pays attention, and doesn't get carried away. It's simple to do yourself, and it WORKS !

That said, IMHO, to pay anyone else, to port iron heads more than the BASIC job, as mentioned above, is a waste of money, and NOT cost effective, as the point has been made, for comparison to the EDDY heads, pricewise.

Just my 2 cents.

[Challenger340]

Pictures are worth a million words,  So here goes, hope this works.

Old Race Ported 915 Iron head, flowed 295 cfm @ .650" lift[/img]Comparison of "race ported" 915 Iron Head to a "street Ported" EDDY head. I should say "roughed out" EDDY head, but you get the idea. I can post the finished EDDY and flow numbers if anyone wants, but you get the picture here. [/img]

[firefighter3931]

Very nice work on the 915's.....there's a lot of hours in those heads ! 

I'd be interested in some stats on the E-heads :

flow #'s
port volume
cross sec area
pushrod pinch dimensions


Thanks, Ron

[Challenger340]

Ron, I pretty much finished those EDDY's today, with what I feel is a "complimentary" type port job for them.  3 hrs a few days back, another 4 1/2 today, some light rubbing left to do.
What I mean "complimentary", is based upon 8 hrs labor, or porting time.

Just my own criterion, and opinion, but given that they are a relatively inexpensive Cyl. head, I can't justify spending more than the 8 hrs as a baseline. Hence the reference to what I call a "street port", for a "street" head.

By no means did I make the EDDY's thin, or max them out, nothing radical, just basic port job.
My intention is strictly a "feasible" type job moneywise, that  someone could justify on a mass produced head. Example; $600 on a $1500 ? set of EDDY's.
I'm in CANADA, Canadian Money. I don't even know what EDDY's cost, I don't sell 'em, these are a Customer's for his engine.

The days are long gone, when we got paid R & D time porting heads, to get as much flow as possible. Today, you are far better served to just go buy the next "better" product.
Rationale; Why spend $1200 porting a set of $1500 EDDY heads ? better off to just go buy some $2500 better Heads. See my point ?

And FORGET paying anyone to port IRON heads, buy the Mopar templates and do your IRON stuff yourself, or go buy a "REAL" head like the EDDY's.

I'll finish them up, flow them "as is", as I'll show a pic "finished", with the dimensions/flows you requested.

Ps; maybe I should flow them against the original/virgin '66 HEMI castings in the background ? Might be interesting comparison. I'll ask the HEMI owner if he minds.

[firefighter3931]

I'll finish them up, flow them "as is", as I'll show a pic "finished", with the dimensions/flows you requested.

Ps; maybe I should flow them against the original/virgin '66 HEMI castings in the background ? Might be interesting comparison. I'll ask the HEMI owner if he minds.

Thanks 340 ! 

The stock hemi vs ported e-head comparison would be interesting as well. 



Ron

[Challenger340]

Finished EDDY's , won't get to flow until after X-mas, too damn busy. Like I said, a "street Port", nothing radical, cost effective for these heads without killing the bankbook[/img]
Some Intake shots. Port windows @ 2 7/16 X 1 5/16, Slightly raised Divergence angle, .125", reblended to bowls[/img]

Intake Bowl detail[/img]

Intake runners[/img]
Simple Exhaust cleanup[/img]

There you have it, don't wanna screw up anymore bandwidth on here. I'll update with the flow numbers as soon as possible. I won't cheat either ! They'll be flowed with std 30/45/60 angles as supplied by EDDY, no trick jobs, although I've got no reason to believe they wouldn't respond similar to the INDY stuff, if it were applied for a more serious effort.

[Challenger340]

Forgot one[/img]

[firefighter3931]

Nice work....they look beautiful !  I'm sure your customer is gonna be ecstatic when he sees them, i know i would be ! 

Any plans to back cut the valves ? That is worth 10cfm across the board. 


Here's the numbers from mine : basic cleanup and mild port/competition VJ and backcut to the valves. I didn't do them....i'm not that talented....just hack on the iron stuff. 

lift> In/Ex
.100>71/59
.200>148/111
.300>212/149
.400>258/187
.450>274/200
.500>283/207
.550>292/212
.600>296/217
.650>298/219
.700>301/222

Resulting intake port volume = 228cc.


Here are some numbers for a set of EZ's off the same bench. These are ottb with no mods. These are the std port window.....non max wedge.


lift>In/Ex
.100>71/54
.200>129/97
.300>190/137
.400>240/170
.450>263/183
.500>280/194
.550>296/203
.600>306/209
.650>308/217
.700>310/222

IIRC, the intake port vol is ~260cc



Ron

[Challenger340]

Interesting "known" comparison(the EZ heads) Ron.

Thats kinda why I was thinking of doing the virgin old HEMI castings as well. There's enough data out there on those, for "bench" comparison. This is a really critical bench !
Maybe I can dig up some EZ's ?

This flowbench Shrinks pee-pees real fast ! Stay tuned.

Ps; anybody wanna see the cheapy way to do 451's without grinding the counter weights down on a lathe, good for homies who only wanna gring the mains to 400 size ?

Must easier/cheaper to balance this way too. We were doing them this way 25 yrs ago for stock 440 rods.

[firefighter3931]

The ez's are an excellent casting once they're opened up to a max wedge window.  They flow 330ish on the same bench with that bigger opening, ottb. 

That does limit intake manifold selection, especially if you're going for the stealth look w/o a hood scoop. Those ICH single plane's are tall.


Ron