Fair price @ bodyshop?

[defiance]

I'm having some body work done at a local body shop, and just wanted to run some numbers by the guys here to see if they're in line with what people see elsewhere...  To be honest, this shop is reputed to be the best in the area, so even if it is inflated I believe I'll be having it done here, but I just want to know if this is normal.

Anyway, basically the car is a '72 with a truly 'straight' body (no dents anywhere, but the paint is raggedy and there are rust issues.  *most* of the rust issues are minor (1/4" bubbles around the bottom rear fenders, that sort of thing), but the top is pretty nasty (I've got pics of it on my sounddesign page in my sig) where it had a vynil top.  I'm having them patch the bad spots (I'm guessing probably 2-3 patches less than a foot by a foot) there, and fill in the seams so that the top can be painted.  Then, the piece that runs between the rear window and the trunk has been BADLY patched before, they'll be redoing that.  Next, the engine bay is pretty raggedy; the engine is currently out of it, so they'll be disassembling what remains and painting it along with the rest of the car.  Prior to paint it will be "soda blasted" and cleared to bare metal, then it'll be painted straight black with three burgandy trim items - a stripe along the rear (modeled after R/T stripes), highlights on the bulge hood (same pattern as the normal 3rd gen hood blackouts), and standard 3rd gen door louvres.  I know I can get some of that stuff as vynil, but from what he said, that's not a big factor in the price anyway.  Oh, for the engine compartment, reassembly will be minimal; the battery tray is being removed, steering will be replaced with an alterktion kit, and I'm probably going to have to get a hydraboost for brakes (or at least a different master cylinder) since the engine will produce little vacuum and the rear brakes will be changed to discs.  So, I told him to just leave any of those things that had to be removed off.  I know, probably no real difference in work, but worth mentioning anyway.

So...

Before I say what the price is going to be, what would you guys expect to pay for that sort of work from a shop that focuses on show vehicles?

I'm hoping to hear some numbers even higher than it will actually be so I can feel better about what I'm spending

[red72chrgr]

$10,000? 

[Silver R/T]

that sounds like at least $4K just for labor, then you'll have to add materials

[defiance]

Cool - At this point the guy is telling me he "can keep it around $7500"..  So it sounds like I'm probably getting a pretty fair deal.  The body's staying on, and I've told him it won't see any shows; I'm looking for solid daily driver quality - so from what you guys are saying I'm getting a good deal... I've just never priced body work on old cars; I had some major repair and custom paint on my previous (newer) car for under $2k, so it seemed a big difference to me...  I knew we were talking about a whole different ball game though, so that's why I asked here

[ACUDANUT]

 I am having the same problem trying to paint my 72 Charger.  Here in small town Kansas they are wanting 10,000 to fix and paint my car...I am stuck now.  I keep hearing folks say "it's cheaper just to buy one already done".  I think they were right.

[Lord Warlock]

It is kind of amazing to hear what shops charge for working on older cars.  I had similar work done on my camaro z28 (rusted thru needed a new top welded on, but had it patched instead) and it cost me 1500 to do in the early 90s, but today, for some reason the work is costing 10 times as much.  And paint work, what it would cost a pro shop to do a custom job (kandy/stripes/flames) on a newer car at roughly 3000 to 4500, would cost twice that for a single color (non color change) on the charger.  And the charger only has very minor body work to be done.  (dings and one small dent in rear valence)

To me its just hard to believe a paint job costs that much unless it is for a real "show car" or full restoration.   Lucky for me, i can do almost all the body work, prep work and most of the painting myself, otherwise this hobby would bankrupt me.   

[red72chrgr]

It is kind of amazing to hear what shops charge for working on older cars. I had similar work done on my camaro z28 (rusted thru needed a new top welded on, but had it patched instead) and it cost me 1500 to do in the early 90s, but today, for some reason the work is costing 10 times as much. And paint work, what it would cost a pro shop to do a custom job (kandy/stripes/flames) on a newer car at roughly 3000 to 4500, would cost twice that for a single color (non color change) on the charger. And the charger only has very minor body work to be done. (dings and one small dent in rear valence)

To me its just hard to believe a paint job costs that much unless it is for a real "show car" or full restoration. Lucky for me, i can do almost all the body work, prep work and most of the painting myself, otherwise this hobby would bankrupt me.

Not to start anything or make anyone mad but, some of the reason I believe in what Warlock says is the "muscle car craze". By this I mean look at BJ and the rest of the resurgence in muscle cars. Most shops now think "if I'm gonna paint that car it's gotta be show quality because it's gonna end up on BJ". Im NOT saying all shops think this way but some do and also others don't wanna spend the time therefore they quote big estimates. Also I know it takes time and money to do a car properly and it's not financially feasible for most shops. Unless the car is special or rare, I can't see spending a lot of $$$. My body and paint was estimated at 3k. Yes I know it's nothiing $$$ wise but it's a plain 318 3rd gen and is gonna be just a cruiser. No need for high dollar resto. Just my 2 cents.

[Charger-Bodie]

i own a body shop and we only do one kind of work and thats top notch what alot of people dont realize is that youre reputation is more important than a quick buck so we usually tell people that if you dont want it right then you will have to take it elsewere ...........and also there are plenty of people who are willing to spend the money to do it right ,if there wernt we wouldnt be back logged 2 years out on MOPAR only restos

[bull]

i own a body shop and we only do one kind of work and thats top notch what alot of people dont realize is that youre reputation is more important than a quick buck so we usually tell people that if you dont want it right then you will have to take it elsewere ...........and also there are plenty of people who are willing to spend the money to do it right ,if there wernt we wouldnt be back logged 2 years out on MOPAR only restos

It's worth it to find a shop that won't do a hack job for half the money. The way I figure it, part of the bill you pay is insurance that the work done will not have to be redone and/or look like crap once the sunshine hits it at the first show. Lots of shops will charge you $7k to do a $4k body and paint job. Me, I'd rather pay $15k for a $20k job.

[Bandit72]

I am having the same problem trying to paint my 72 Charger.  Here in small town Kansas they are wanting 10,000 to fix and paint my car...I am stuck now.  I keep hearing folks say "it's cheaper just to buy one already done".  I think they were right.

just outta curiousity...where are you at in kansas? I'm in Humboldt, (about 45 miles west of Fort Scott)

[Lord Warlock]

I don't mind paying someone whose willing to put forth serious effort and time to do the job right, but it shouldn't cost 15k to do a repaint, unless they spend at least a few months disassembling every part, and removing the motor to do the firewall.  Shooting paint just doesn't take that long.  Yes all the prep work before and after can justify that type of cost if charged hourly.  And on a frame off resto or rotisserie restoration, I can see how the cost of painting runs into the higher levels.  But for the normal street driven car repaint it isn't that hard to remove a few panels (if you got the tools) and paint the car for a reasonable cost.  And 7k to 15k I don't really consider reasonable, considering a new car only costs 12k to 15k.  It will take me a long long time to set aside that much to just paint a car.  

Removing the motor, interior, and suspension pieces prior to paint should reduce the costs somewhat, as well as the windows and rubber trim.  Anything that reduces the effort required to prep the car should make the cost more reasonable.  After painting a few cars myself, i really can appreciate all the work involved in doing a good job on the car, it isn't as simple as just covering the glass and spraying paint.  And even after the spraying is done getting rid of the imperfections can easily take more time than it took to do the paint job itself.  

[hemi-hampton]

Red72charger sez Shop sez it's might be going to BJ so it's got to be a showcar & Shop sez not Finacially feasible for shop. Other way around, Customer wants the BJ Showcar but Customer is not Finacially feasible. What I mean is this. Lets say a guy comes to you with a Rare hemi car. Solid rustfree unrestored original nice car. Comes to you with $50,000 in NOS Parts he's collected over past 10 years. Wants perfection. After spending $200,000 on car he gets first place at Mopar Nationals. Another guy see's this car & likes it. Decides to bring you his rustbucket basket case '74 318 scamp & sez he wants the same Quality as you did on that rare Hemi car. Problem is this guy only wants to spend $10,000 & figures if he had to spend $20,000 he should definately get that show car he wanted. NOT.   LEON.

[red72chrgr]

Actually hemi-hampton, the shops in the area I live in (Chattanooga,Tn.) DO think that way. The guy I found to do my littleman's dream is the only decent individual that wanted to even talk to me. Most wanted to do the "Georgia thing" ,orange,01,etc. even though it's a 72. As far as what you said in your post about the rare vs. 318 Scamp, I agree. I KNOW I won't get a very good job on my car but, I gotta deal with what I have available. I could take it out of the area but, what's the use. Guess what I mean, is I've obviously have been thinking wrong again and picked the wrong hobby. Maybe I'll sell mine.

[440mag]

If you are going to a good shop its is going to cost you.  My car is in the shop now.  I estimate it will cost $10,000 + to get it done.  My care has less rust than yours but it has past sins that have to be fixed from poor body work in the 80's.  By the time you replace the glass, chrome the bumpers, polish the stainless, replace all the rubber seals it cost allot of money.

[BigBlockSam]

i have never been happy with a bodyshop . they've all messed up in one way or another . i have all the tools and a yard to do it in . i hire a body guy to do the work here . and work with them , to make sure it's done to my expectations . we even paint the car in the yard i did my 68 charger r/t this yr and will do my rr clone there in 2007. total cost was about $7500 for the full restoration, except interior that included top end rebuild on motor.
the car was a rust pit now it is rust free . new , bumpers, elmblems and rechroming alot of parts .  check out the link

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=15689.msg175740#msg175740

[hemi-hampton]

Red72charger, Dont sell it, I like it, looks like one of my Chargers. The thing I dont like about doing a cheap resto is this. Lets say you got 2 identical cars in same shape. One guy wants to spend $100k for perfection & the other $1k for quicky overnight Earl Scheib job. Now everybody that see's that Quicky overnight Earl Scheib sez who did that crappy work, Hemi-Hampton did, Then they say I'll be sure to stay away from him if he does that garbage. They forgot to tell the guy they only paid $1K on the rustbucket baskett case heap which would explain the crappy job, get what you pay for but this gets lost in translation & you end up looking like a hack/clown/joker/idiot. LEON.

[Lord Warlock]

The problem is that most of us enthusiasts can't afford a full bore restoration, or even anything close to one.  Even if we got our cars cheap.  Sometimes you have to do it on the cheap, just so you can enjoy the car while you have it.  Don't wait till you can afford to do a BJ resto, start working on it now, do the best job you can, and enjoy the car.  Otherwise, you'll end up like me, holding on to a car for 28 years and never finishing it.  I figure it will take me about 2 years to do the car well enough to enjoy and show off to all but the high point judges, at a total cost of less than 15k, mainly because i'm willing to do most of the required work myself and only farm out parts to the pros such as building a motor, suspension work, and maybe wiring.  I learned with my last project car that you can throw money at it till the cows come home and it still will let you down, its better to learn how to do it yourself and learn something in the process. 

As far as worrying about who cares who did a better job, unless you are a resto shop or even a body shop it doesn't matter.  Especially if the "other" guys don't have a charger or muscle car to brag about.  I'd rather have a muscle car in primer than be driving a shiny new honda.  The muscle car will get alot more looks anyway. 

Defiance: 7500 isn't that bad a price.  Make sure you find out how long it'll take to do the job, or it may be in his shop for two years or longer as he works it around his own schedule.   Don't commit till you know all the dates, and then keep up with him as they work on it.  Don't give him too much lax time between visits or it will stretch out for alot longer than you planned.  Good luck with it. 

[Charger-Bodie]

Red72charger, Dont sell it, I like it, looks like one of my Chargers. The thing I dont like about doing a cheap resto is this. Lets say you got 2 identical cars in same shape. One guy wants to spend $100k for perfection & the other $1k for quicky overnight Earl Scheib job. Now everybody that see's that Quicky overnight Earl Scheib sez who did that crappy work, Hemi-Hampton did, Then they say I'll be sure to stay away from him if he does that garbage. They forgot to tell the guy they only paid $1K on the rustbucket baskett case heap which would explain the crappy job, get what you pay for but this gets lost in translation & you end up looking like a hack/clown/joker/idiot. LEON.

:iagree:they never say it looks like crap because they are  didnt want to spend any money they just blirt out oh so and so did it .....pretty soon the only cars anyone will let you touch are 1000.00 scab jobs ..... isay that if you want a cheap job take it to macco or someplace like that who doesnt care about a high quality reputation

[defiance]

No, I don't want it cheap, I just don't want to be giving out money that I shouldn't be

It's supposed to be done by the end of January, maybe mid-February at the latest.  He's supposed to really get going on it the 15th.  I'll try to catch him a bit before Christmas to make sure he's making some progress

[hemi-hampton]

Defiance or Red72, I can do a $200 maaco job with no problem. I worked at maaco in the 1991 15 years ago painting 8 cars aday & 1 every hour. Problem is after they (customers of mine here at home) pay $200 they then complain oh look, I have orange peel. How come my buddy's car has no orange peel, I dont want orange peel. OK, $200 for the paint & for another $1,000 I'll get rid of the orange peel by spending a few days wet sanding & rubbing. Oh look, Paint on my Moldings, Did'nt you remove all my Chrome & door handles & Bumpers & all that? Yeah, right for $200 lousy dollars. This is what you can expect for comments from Half the People that pay $200 for a Paint job. Been there Done that, Best to just stay away from this type of Job. A wast of Time. I used to do Used car lot Garbage jobs cheap that looked like crap & never once got any complaints but Compliments. Now I dont mind doing what they pay for as long as they understand what they are paying for is crap. Pay for crap get crap, understand & be happy. Most people think that if Maaco will do a car for $200 then if they had to pay $400 then that must Qualify for a showcar then. I'll paint anybody's car for $200 (minus material) if all ready to pull the trigger. I just dont want to hear any complaints when done. LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

Heres the Differance between me & most bodyshops. Lets say the Body shop sez We'll do it in 4 weeks for $4,000. Thats a Thousand a week,Just a example. What happens is car sits for 3 weeks, nothing done, then in last week hurry up & crank out a peice of Garbage times running out. You go to pick up & see a Garbage job & think you got ripped, did not get what you payed for & your right since it sat for 3 weeks but they tell you they been working on it for past 4 weeks. Instead of160 hours of work performed you got 40 hours. I charge hourly so for 4 weeks I''m on it for 4 weeks & 160 hours. If it sits for 3 weeks I charge nothing for those 3 weeks. Not the same as when someone Quotes a Price like I'll do it for $10,000 With that what happens is after 3/4 of the time is gone car is only 1/2 done which then means the other half gets done in the last 1/4 & quality suffers. Then Complaints again. A viscious cycle. LEON.

[andy74]

i paid 4000 for the body and paint on my car,but that included me taking the bumpers and trim off,and being the shop bitch while they were working on it,and i also helped sand,strip etc-the fact that i worked in the sales side of the shop and they took the car on the slow time of the year also helped quite a bit,but that was a deal we worked out ahead of time,and i probably got a 8000 job for the price