Rebuild numbers engine or stow it and do a transplant?

[bull]

I was having a PM discussion with a member here about whether I should rebuild and reinstall the original 383 for my '68 or if I should play it safe and buy a rebuilt 383 or 440 to make sure I don't bust the original, numbers matching engine block. Things to consider: 1. I don't have a lot of room to store an extra engine. 2. My Jan. 8, '68 has only a casting date of Aug. xx, 1967 and a distributor pad stamping of D383 so it's most likely the correct engine but there's no way to prove it 100%, although there's no way to disprove it either. 3. The car is a rare 383/2bbl/4spd car and I finally did locate an original numbers carb for it but I don't yet know if the engine has been modified. 4. I have everything I need to return the car to factory specs but do I store that stuff or use it?? 5. I'm not looking to race so I have no qualms about running a 383 rather than a 440. I think the 383 is one of the best engines ever built.

Anyway, please don't give me a bunch of gobblygook about a crate 426 or 472 or 6.1 or whatever. I honestly don't give a rip about that crap because I'm not made of money and wouldn't spend $13k-$20k on an engine even if I was. I am a big KISS fan, Keep It Simple Stupid.

So, what do you think?

[deputycrawford]

Use another 383 block and use an in exspensive 472 kit in the block. They are around $1300 for the entire rotational kit. You will have a very mild acting 472 that looks like your stock 383 and you will save your exsisting block. Don't knock the 472 kit. Most rebuilds need crank, rods and pistons anyway. I believe the kit comes with rings and bearings too. You are only looking to save the original block. It doesn't matter if its been bored or repaired once already. At least its still with the car. If cost is everything then just use mostly stock parts; but use another block. Just my 4 cents.

[Chryco Psycho]

3 million 383 were built & numerous 400s I would grab one & build it instead of the #S engine

[gtx6970]

Unless you plan to  beat on it, use it. If built right it should have no qualms with an occasional spinup

[69_500]

I agree, go with another 383, or a 400. They aren't that expensive, to pick up another block. You can use the same heads, and such. The block is the only real important part if you wanting to keep something for future resale value. No way to prove that the other parts came on your specific car.

[70charger_boy]

I was so worried about keeping the motor on my trans am, so when I was ready to rebuildthe motor I bought a crate and stored the original in my garage, well anyway 6 months later the motor fell off the stand and the block was cracked.  If I didn't have bad luck I would have no luck at all

[8WHEELER]

Its really your call, you can listen to many of our opinions and make your own decision.

I have a 70 440 in my red charger now, I had it bored 30 over 26yrs ago, I can't tell
you how many times I have gone down the 1/4 mile with it running mid 12's with stock
tires on 5.5in wide magnums, and 12.5 to 1 comp. The car still has that engine in it today
after driving it to college every day, and driving it when ever and on long trips, I never
did worry about it. I put this engine together, yes I have seen pro build engines last
only a year, but if done right, you should be able to build an engine for your car, and
never have to worry about it again, I know your not going to drive the piss out of
it like I have, or drive it every day.

OK, I had my say    make up your own mind. Having said that, I am thinking about
selling my 68 383 4 barrel engine ''D383''  but its in great shape, standard bore, intake
to pan, and I will not sell it cheap that's for sure, good standard bore complete 68
383 engines are getting hard to find, maybe I should not have even said anything   

Dan

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have a smoothed 383 block sitting under my pile of shit at work....      only problem is someone chipped the oil pickup tube thread area...   will need to be welded or use external oil lines...        and when i say smoothed i mean smoothed...    no casting numbers, dates, anything...    all sharp edges have been rounded off to a small degree and all extra flashing taken on...     really a cool thing to look at....     

Bull - where are you located ?  I know of two complete 383 long blocks that ran when pulled from their cars.....     they are sitting on the shelves at the shop.

[Chryco Psycho]

I agree a properly built big block is not likely to blow up even if you beat it mercilessly But for $100 or less I bet you can get another block

[firefighter3931]

My  Build the backup engine and save the numbers block....they can only be numbers matching once and if you window the block, you'll be kicking yourself in the A$$ ! I'd get a late model cast crank 440 (Cheap), throw some 6-pack pistons in it and use the 452 heads that allready have the hard ex. seats for unleaded fuel. 


Ron

[bull]

I have a smoothed 383 block sitting under my pile of shit at work....      only problem is someone chipped the oil pickup tube thread area...   will need to be welded or use external oil lines...        and when i say smoothed i mean smoothed...    no casting numbers, dates, anything...    all sharp edges have been rounded off to a small degree and all extra flashing taken on...     really a cool thing to look at....     

Bull - where are you located ?  I know of two complete 383 long blocks that ran when pulled from their cars.....     they are sitting on the shelves at the shop.

I'm in Oregon near Portland.

Thanks for the opinions, guys. I'm going to make a call to an engine builder here in town and get some prices on 440s and 383s.

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

i say go with the stock #'s match 383 as what the point in restoring the car if it has its #'s match tranny and not engine? a blown up #'s match 383 is as good 2 u as if it were sitting at home-MATT

[Lord Warlock]

Add another vote for rebuilding the stock numbers matching block.  If you have the correct block, why not rebuild it and install it where it belongs?  I'd understand if you planned on racing the car fairly often and didn't want to take the chance on ruining the block, but if you are planning on driving to shows and street driving it, put the stock one back in, it will increase the value overall, and should you ever part with it, you'll be glad you put the stock motor in it.  Storing an extra block in the garage (especially a 383/440) can be a pain unless you have a huge garage.  I kept a spare in mine for 2 years and finally donated it to a friend just to stop tripping over it or bashing my ankles on it when trying to walk by. 

[jerry]

since you don't even know if its the original block and there is nothing rare about it to begin with and you can't make up your mind what you are doing without asking a bunch of strangers then i would  put it in the car and forget about it. just my opinion

[bull]

since you don't even know if its the original block and there is nothing rare about it to begin with and you can't make up your mind what you are doing without asking a bunch of strangers then i would  put it in the car and forget about it. just my opinion

Nothing rare except it's one of 74. That's not rare enough for you?

And so far you're about the only one who's chimed in I would consider a stranger. I've known many of these other guys for about four years or so.

[jerry]

since you don't even know if its the original block and there is nothing rare about it to begin with and you can't make up your mind what you are doing without asking a bunch of strangers then i would  put it in the car and forget about it. just my opinion

Nothing rare except it's one of 74. That's not rare enough for you?

And so far you're about the only one who's chimed in I would consider a stranger. I've known many of these other guys for about four years or so. then why did you say you do not know for sure its the original engine?if you didn't buy the car new then you don't. are you saying a 2-bbl 4-speed car is rare? just because its one of 74 as you say could mean nobody wanted one this way and i doubt anyone would care if it had a numbers matching 383 2-bbl engine. now a slant six would be rare.

[bull]

since you don't even know if its the original block and there is nothing rare about it to begin with and you can't make up your mind what you are doing without asking a bunch of strangers then i would  put it in the car and forget about it. just my opinion

Nothing rare except it's one of 74. That's not rare enough for you?

And so far you're about the only one who's chimed in I would consider a stranger. I've known many of these other guys for about four years or so. then why did you say you do not know for sure its the original engine?if you didn't buy the car new then you don't. are you saying a 2-bbl 4-speed car is rare? just because its one of 74 as you say could mean nobody wanted one this way and i doubt anyone would care if it had a numbers matching 383 2-bbl engine. now a slant six would be rare.

I'll attempt to educate you one this topic, even though it appears comprehensive reading is not your strong point. Most early 1968 Chargers did not have partial VIN stampings, and none of the '68s had them on the lower side of the block like the '69s and '70s had so an exact match on an early '68 is not possible. The later '68s had partial VINs on the upper bellhousing where the trans. bolts on. However, what we do have to go on with the early ones is a casting date coupled with a manufacture stamp near the base of the distributor on the early '68s. My car left the assembly plant on Jan. 8, 1968 and the engine has an Aug. '67 casting date and a D383 stamping at the distributor base (they were stamped during installation) which means it is a 1967 383 for use in a 1968 Dodge. The chances of this engine not being the numbers matching engine are slim to none, that's why I said it would be easier to prove it is the original engine than to prove it is not. The criteria used to prove this is as accurate as it gets for that era.

As far as rarity vs. desirability, I'd say a factory four speed, big block '68 Charger is about as desirable as it gets. Would you like to tell us about your Charger?

[70charger_boy]

well said satanistic Dr. Z 

[max]

i have to agree with the others who say to find another engine for a build up and save the #'s block. as stated 383 can be fairly cheap to come by and for me an original #'s block would be worth way more then the price of a donor engine including the price of a rebuild.

[jerry]

since you don't even know if its the original block and there is nothing rare about it to begin with and you can't make up your mind what you are doing without asking a bunch of strangers then i would  put it in the car and forget about it. just my opinion

Nothing rare except it's one of 74. That's not rare enough for you?

And so far you're about the only one who's chimed in I would consider a stranger. I've known many of these other guys for about four years or so. then why did you say you do not know for sure its the original engine?if you didn't buy the car new then you don't. are you saying a 2-bbl 4-speed car is rare? just because its one of 74 as you say could mean nobody wanted one this way and i doubt anyone would care if it had a numbers matching 383 2-bbl engine. now a slant six would be rare.

I'll attempt to educate you one this topic, even though it appears comprehensive reading is not your strong point. Most early 1968 Chargers did not have partial VIN stampings, and none of the '68s had them on the lower side of the block like the '69s and '70s had so an exact match on an early '68 is not possible. The later '68s had partial VINs on the upper bellhousing where the trans. bolts on. However, what we do have to go on with the early ones is a casting date coupled with a manufacture stamp near the base of the distributor on the early '68s. My car left the assembly plant on Jan. 8, 1968 and the engine has an Aug. '67 casting date and a D383 stamping at the distributor base (they were stamped during installation) which means it is a 1967 383 for use in a 1968 Dodge. The chances of this engine not being the numbers matching engine are slim to none, that's why I said it would be easier to prove it is the original engine than to prove it is not. The criteria used to prove this is as accurate as it gets for that era.

As far as rarity vs. desirability, I'd say a factory four speed, big block '68 Charger is about as desirable as it gets. Would you like to tell us about your Charger?      the chances of this engine being the one out of your car are slim at most. if you didn't buy the car new you do not know if its the original so stop blowing smoke.if you say a 68 charger with a 383  2-bbl 4 speed is rare then so be it.but if i was to brag about a rare charger it would be  a real big block car not the 2-bbl version.like i said before a slant six charger is rare. the 383's are a dime a dozen .most are 440 cars now. put your rare motor in the corner and cuss it everytime you trip over it . go find a 440 rt 4-spd car  if you want a desireable charger or a hemi,or a daytona.

[bull]

since you don't even know if its the original block and there is nothing rare about it to begin with and you can't make up your mind what you are doing without asking a bunch of strangers then i would  put it in the car and forget about it. just my opinion

Nothing rare except it's one of 74. That's not rare enough for you?

And so far you're about the only one who's chimed in I would consider a stranger. I've known many of these other guys for about four years or so. then why did you say you do not know for sure its the original engine?if you didn't buy the car new then you don't. are you saying a 2-bbl 4-speed car is rare? just because its one of 74 as you say could mean nobody wanted one this way and i doubt anyone would care if it had a numbers matching 383 2-bbl engine. now a slant six would be rare.

I'll attempt to educate you one this topic, even though it appears comprehensive reading is not your strong point. Most early 1968 Chargers did not have partial VIN stampings, and none of the '68s had them on the lower side of the block like the '69s and '70s had so an exact match on an early '68 is not possible. The later '68s had partial VINs on the upper bellhousing where the trans. bolts on. However, what we do have to go on with the early ones is a casting date coupled with a manufacture stamp near the base of the distributor on the early '68s. My car left the assembly plant on Jan. 8, 1968 and the engine has an Aug. '67 casting date and a D383 stamping at the distributor base (they were stamped during installation) which means it is a 1967 383 for use in a 1968 Dodge. The chances of this engine not being the numbers matching engine are slim to none, that's why I said it would be easier to prove it is the original engine than to prove it is not. The criteria used to prove this is as accurate as it gets for that era.

As far as rarity vs. desirability, I'd say a factory four speed, big block '68 Charger is about as desirable as it gets. Would you like to tell us about your Charger?      the chances of this engine being the one out of your car are slim at most. if you didn't buy the car new you do not know if its the original so stop blowing smoke.if you say a 68 charger with a 383  2-bbl 4 speed is rare then so be it.but if i was to brag about a rare charger it would be  a real big block car not the 2-bbl version.like i said before a slant six charger is rare. the 383's are a dime a dozen .most are 440 cars now. put your rare motor in the corner and cuss it everytime you trip over it . go find a 440 rt 4-spd car  if you want a desireable charger or a hemi,or a daytona.

First off, it might be a good idea to learn how to use the quote function so people can decipher which words are yours without trying to read the fine print inside the purple highlighted area. Some proper capitalization and punctuation at at least the fifth grade level wouldn't hurt either.

You apparently have no clue about this stuff if you think I am blowing smoke. However, you are quite plainly talking out your ass. You have no authority on this subject whatsoever, nobody knows you from Adam, and being a smartass about it hardly helps your case. For example, the carb size has nothing to do with the engine being a big block or not -- basic stuff for any on-line know-it-all, so I'd advise you learn it. I am not bragging about anything, I'm merely pointing out the fact that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. There are no 'dime-a-dozen' Chargers anymore and the people who once sniffed at the 318 Chargers are now taking them very seriously.

So, did you tell us about your Charger? I'm afraid I must have missed it the first time if you did.

[jerry]

calm down now we are talking about a 290 horse 2-bbl non magnum manifold charger not a real big block charger.the way you defend that car a guy would think you are talking about a real muscle car.as i said before i would put the so called original motor in a corner. someone may give you $100.00 for it to put in a c-body.when you sell the car the buyer will probably say keep it when you say i have a 2-bbl motor that goes with it. have a good day the end

[hemigeno]

As far as rarity vs. desirability, I'd say a factory four speed, big block '68 Charger is about as desirable as it gets. Would you like to tell us about your Charger?      the chances of this engine being the one out of your car are slim at most. if you didn't buy the car new you do not know if its the original so stop blowing smoke.if you say a 68 charger with a 383  2-bbl 4 speed is rare then so be it.but if i was to brag about a rare charger it would be  a real big block car not the 2-bbl version.like i said before a slant six charger is rare. the 383's are a dime a dozen .most are 440 cars now. put your rare motor in the corner and cuss it everytime you trip over it . go find a 440 rt 4-spd car  if you want a desireable charger or a hemi,or a daytona.

Couldn't be farther from the truth there, jerry.

I would speculate just the OPPOSITE of what you are saying... the chances are quite HIGH that the engine is bull's original, even if the VIN or SO numbers are not stamped on the block.  If you want to talk probabilities, try and calculate what the odds are that a correct casting date, non-HP, '68 model year, 383 engine just happened to end up in bull's car. From a statistical standpoint, I think you will find the odds are higher that this is the car's original powerplant.  If the original engine had been roached and replaced (years after the car was new), chances are the replacement engine found and installed would not have been from the exact timeperiod AND have been a non-HP variant of a very common engine.  No one would have likely taken the time to worry about such details, until perhaps the last 10 years or so when the values of base-model (non R/T) Chargers started climing.

The 383 2bbl wasn't considered an HP engine by Chrysler, so no ID marks were stamped in them in 1968 ('69+ is a totally different story).  What I have read said that only 383HP, 440HP & Hemi engines received a "numbers-matching" ID stamp.  Some other guys can chime in to confirm or dispel that information, but so far everything I have seen tends to reinforce this theory.

As a side note, the last time I checked, the 383 was a big block - no matter what carb it came with.  Always was, always will be.

Bull, there should also be an engine assembly date stamped on the block somewhere too.  I don't remember off the top of my head where the '68 dates were stamped, as I seem to recall that they weren't stamped on the pad below the distributor like they are on '69+ (and might be in the 10,000 day calendar format).  That could establish even further the connection to your car - even though there's never going to be a VIN/SO number to 100% prove it.

My vote?  Build up the engine that you have.  Quite honestly, you might be able to find another 383 block from that timeperiod in the unlikely event that you did blow that one up beyond repair.  I think it's a very neat, desirable and rare car - and I would personally like to see a car like that kept as original as possible (but it's not my car so it's not my decision).

One last thing, jerry...  the comment that you made, about needing to be the original owner to know for certain that a car's non-stamped engine was original, just doesn't hold water.  There is nothing that guarantees that even an engine with a matching VIN/SO# stamp is indeed the correct/original engine, since there are a TON of less-than-honest people with a die-stamp kit who have made their cars numbers-matching in the pursuit of profit.  For that matter, even an original owner of a non-stamped engine'd car could fudge the truth about it having the original engine if it meant getting more dinero.  Guess that means that if you yourself weren't the original owner of the car to verify that the engine has never been replaced, then it can never be an absolute certainty that the engine has not been replaced and/or restamped (if applicable).  Life is too short to be that cynical.

[deputycrawford]

I also have to disagree with jerry. I have a numbers 2 bbl 383 that I still have all the parts for. Mine is still the numbers engine but now has a 4 bbl with 485 HP. It was int he same family until 2001 in the same city as it was purchased new. That will mean something to someone in the future. Any numbers engine will make a car worthy to many more buyers in the future. I am kinda miffed at the statement that my car is worth nothing because it is a 383. Its not going to Barrett Jackson.

[8WHEELER]

Bull, there should also be an engine assembly date stamped on the block somewhere too.  I don't remember off the top of my head where the '68 dates were stamped, as I seem to recall that they weren't stamped on the pad below the distributor like they are on '69+ (and might be in the 10,000 day calendar format).  That could establish even further the connection to your car - even though there's never going to be a VIN/SO number to 100% prove it.

Yes, on the 68 big blocks there was also an assembly date stamped on that pad, below the ''D383'' in this case.
His block is most likely the original unit. The August casting date could easily be correct, and the assembly date
should be ''in most cases in 68'' 1 to 2 months earlier than the assembly date on the car. So his January car
should have an assembly date of November or December on his engine pad.

Bull, you no my opinion, but if you put in a differend 383, I would look for another 68 casting. Like I said they
are not real easy and cheap to find as others have stated. But if you don't want to run the original 383, another
68 cast 383 block would still be very nice for your car.  You don't need to run a 440, you can pull plenty of
power out of a 383, and still be able to tell interested party's yes its still a 383 car, just something to keep in mind.

Dan