318-440 swap advice

[toqwik]

Found a 76 imperial with a good running 440.  Original owner, 90k on it.  My 68 charger has a numbers matching 318.  Is it worth the trouble to swap motors, or should I keep looking? .  318 has about same mileage, runs ok. guy wants 600 for car and drive it home.  is it worth the work?

[Ghoste]

I'd say yes.  It's not too bad a price for the 440 and trans so if you sell off what's left, you make out good.

[toqwik]

Anyone else ?

[Ghoste]

Maybe the recent spike in fuel prices will make 440's worthless again?
Just trying to give you the opposite side.  I still think you should buy it.

[cudaken]

 Not that much work with a 68 Charger. Will have to cut and splices some wire's, new exhaust, new Tranny mount, use the 76 radiator and new motor mounts for a 68 Big Block B-body.

Motor with the right mounts will be a drop in, radiator will need ome holes drilled in the radiator support. Exhaust is the only semi high dollar iteam. If you can find them, HP exhaust manafold's would be a great idea. Header's are better than the log type that will be on the 76 440 but a big pain unless you can afford good one's like Hooker or better yet TTI. Senes you said nothing about a rebulid guessing you are on a real tight budget.

With the 440 being from as C-body more than likely it has not been beaten on to hard. Sold a 440 73 New Yorker Wagon that had 125,000 miles and did not burn oil. Will feel more power, just don't beat on it to hard.

Change the oil pump and oil pump drive just to be safe.

Number matching 318, well what can I say but yawn. Is it your wifes? Charger                          

Sorry I sound like a dick on the last part, Cuda Ken a Big Block Man     

[69bananabeast]

Not to steal this thread by any means, but when swapping the 318 -440   is there any clearance issues with the gear box on an auto

[Ghoste]

No.  It's a little tighter around the firewall but it all fits.

[cudaken]

 With the righ mounts it a drop in. Little bigger than a 318

                              Cuda Ken

[69bananabeast]

picked em up from schumacker

[defiance]

'76?  I dunno...  By that time, 440's had been so de-tuned, I'm not sure you'd get much of a real power increase...  440's seemed to drop to like 1/2 their rating between 70 and 73...  I believe by 76 the rating was in the low 200's...

[69bananabeast]

mines a '75 , is there a way to build it for another years specs to get the power out of it?

[defiance]

I don't know - to be honest I'm kindof an engine newb - but I *think* the difference is mostly in the heads and cam...  Some of the more experienced guys could answer more definitively.

[cudaken]

 Main reason the power looked so bad on the later engine was the factory started rating them right. The hp after I think it was 71 was off the crank everything hooked up and working. Olus, they had been straching the truth some anyway. Insurance company bean counter's went hard on the 300 HP stuff. Can't afford the insurances for that new 73 440 Road Runner, did you didnt buy it, that simple.

75 440 with out the smog stuff would be close to what the 68 440 would make. I remembered racing a friend's New 74 400 Road Runner with my 68 383 Road Runner. On paper, it should have been ass kicking, it wasn't. In fact I won by maybe 5 feet if that.

Defiance, I was 18 and that is when I learned unless it is on a ET slip, it didnt mean shit. My then stock 383 on paper was 335 HP and 425 Foot pounds, his was 260 HP and 335 foot pounds. But, the track timer's could not read

                             Cuda Ken

[defiance]

Really?   All the history articles I've read said they had to detune dramatically for emissions during those years...  I've seen some listings showing a 75 440 at 215 hp at the crank - surely that can't be without some detuning?

I understand that numbers don't matter in the end, but when you're trying to choose a or b before putting them in the car, the numbers are all you have - I don't think he can install them, run a few quarters, and compare results that way

[cudaken]

 Defiance, remember I said after all the smog stuff was removed the HP of a 74 440 and 68 440 would be close. I am talking about the Block, Crank, Head's and the lower Compression pistons if you are buliding a engine from nothing like your Dad started and you are finshing.

I am far from being a expret about the smog stuff. What little I know is if you are after HP, throw the shit in the trash.

OK, what I am tpying is not what I am trying to say so let start over.

1 Power rating where made higher than what most engine's made before 72. That is why my friend's Runner gave me hell. It also was super tuned at the dealership. So it did run better than it should.

2 If you bulid a stock 75 440 with all the smog stuff, then do a 68 all stock 440, the stock 68 will make more HP but if both engines where tuned on a dyno they would be closer than what you would think.

3 If you pull the smog stuff, get a good carb that was not tuned for smog laws and recure the distributor for HP use, the 75 440 will make more power.

4 If, you take a 78 440, stick in the higher compresson pistons and 68 HP cam and with the I think 452 heads you be real close to what a 68 440 with the 906 heads would make. 906's head are a little better than the 452's, maybe 15 HP Max if all are stock.

5 Casting number are important, that tells you what you have to start with. 516 head's are small valve head's used till 1967 when worked a good head. 915's are the only year the the 440 HP motor head was driffrent from a 383 engine, closed chamber and bigger valves. 906 heads started in 1968 and many thing the best all round head.

Are you sort of getting what I am trying to say? Forget the HP rating's for a 74 440. Has nothing to do with what we bulid unless you use all the stock stuff that it came with but still closer than the printed figues would make you think.

               Here's my 1974 440 and it from a New Yorker

                                Cuda Ken

[defiance]

Cool, gotcha; that helps

[BigBlockSam]

i thought the compression was controled by the head. if you take a 73 440 and put 68 , 906 heads wouldn't you have 68 compression. the stroke and bore are the same on a 68 440, and a 73 440. Rene

[cudaken]

 Rene compression is controle by many things and mainly the pistons. Height of the pistons reach in the bores is the main thing. Also the CC of the head as well and lets not forget a over bore of the block.

Where do I want to start. Lets make it simple. Lets say the CI of one bore is only 10". When the piston is at Top Dead Center and it all compressed into 1" that is 10 to one. That is controled by how far the pistion travel's up the wall's and the CC's of the head chamber.

If you take say .25" out of the head chamber that would make it 10.25 to 1. Reason manyike the 915's heads small chamber and will rasie the Compressoin .5. As nothing to do with what I am trying to explain.

Next is bore, lets say you punch the block. That makes the bore bigger right. Let's say you that makes the bore 11" and not 10" of CI. That will allso raise the compression to 11 to 1. Compressiom 11 CI in to one.

Cutting the heads, that makes the chambers smaller. Lets stick with the 10" CI. Say you cut the chamber to where it only has 1/2" sizes. That would rasie your Compression to 10.5 to one.

I hope you sort of get the idea, dont want to get in to block deck height and and head gaskets but they also come into play as well.

Just to give you a idea. My 440 has 8.5 to 1 piston, but with .30 over bore that raised it to 8.88 to 1. Throw in a .30 under deck height stock deck height up to 9.03 to 1.


Hope I have not made your head hurt.

                                 Cuda Ken

PS, only fiquers I posted that are real are the Specks on my 440. Rest was to try to make it easy. Volmemertic Effectentis  (God I can spell) that is a whole driffrent question but yet the same.

[BigBlockSam]

ok, i kinda get it. now i have a 73 block. i'm putting 906 heads on it. i want to have 10-1 compression. i am boring it out 30 over. now if i buy 440, 9-1/2 to one pistons, 30 over . that will get me close to 10 to 1. depending on head gasket thickness. rite ??

impressive spelling.

[Ghoste]

You're thinking Pontiac where you change the heads or crank and it's a completely different engine.

[Chryco Psycho]

I would use the L2355F 6 pack piston with the block decked to zero the piston at the deck  & the steel shim Mopar head gaskets 

[cudaken]

You're thinking Pontiac where you change the heads or crank and it's a completely different engine.

Ghoste, not sure what you mean by that?

If you swap out a set 906's heads with either the 915's or 516 which have closed chamber design it will raise the compression about half a point. I think the 906's have a 88 CC chamber and 915 have 68 CC. Not sure on the speck's with out diging but that sound right.

                                                 Cuda Ken

[Ghoste]

Yes, you're right Ken.  Huge, unforgivable brain fart there. (space for a Homer Simpson "doh! smiley)

[lookin@my68]

Not to steal this thread by any means, but when swapping the 318 -440     is there any clearance issues with the gear box on an auto

Sorry guys  - I don't want to hijack this thread either but is the shifter and linkages on a console 904/sb 727 be used on a bb727??

[Runner]

Not to steal this thread by any means, but when swapping the 318 -440     is there any clearance issues with the gear box on an auto

Sorry guys   - I don't want to hijack this thread either but is the shifter and linkages on a console 904/sb 727 be used on a bb727??

  its the same as the bigblock stuff