440 factory intake VS . Edelbrock performer rpm intake, help me decide pleas

[SeattleCharger]

Hi, I am trying to know the difference between going with a factory 440 hp intake manifold or an Edelbrock Performer RPM highrise intake, rated at 1500 to 6000 rpm.     I have hp exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2 inch exhaust and will maybe have about a 282 cam, and a holley 770 Avenger carb, 2500 stall.   

     So as far as having a more stock looking hp 440 in my car, vs. an edelbrock highrise, I don't know, and then, what horsepower difference is there?  I guess the main thing is the horsepower difference.   Car is mostly for street use, no track, just fun.     Has anyone switched an hp intake for a more high performance one?  Was there a big difference?   
Thanks a bunch in advance,
Nate

[jg68]

Hi, I am trying to know the difference between going with a factory 440 hp intake manifold or an Edelbrock Performer RPM highrise intake, rated at 1500 to 6000 rpm.     I have hp exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2 inch exhaust and will maybe have about a 282 cam, and a holley 770 Avenger carb, 2500 stall.   

     So as far as having a more stock looking hp 440 in my car, vs. an edelbrock highrise, I don't know, and then, what horsepower difference is there?  I guess the main thing is the horsepower difference.   Car is mostly for street use, no track, just fun.     Has anyone switched an hp intake for a more high performance one?  Was there a big difference?   
Thanks a bunch in advance,
Nate

If its the factory cast iron intake, it was not really an hp piece, the same intake was used on most if not all 440s & 383s from 68-70, with the exeption of the 2 brl 383 & the six packs, i had a 69 & a 70 new yorker that came with the same intake that was on the 440hp, but the 440s in my new yorkers had the holley carb & were the standard 350 horse engines.
If it were me, i would put the perf RPM on, it will run better then the factory one, but you may have to use the drop base air cleaner for clearance, seeing you have done some mods on your engine, i think it'll like the change to the RPM, as for hp increase, i would guess right around 15hp, maybe a little more, but you should notice the difference, but as a comparison, headers would give you more IMO

If there were any other cast iron intakes out there that i don't know about Please currect me if i'm wrong

[firefighter3931]

The factory 70-71 intake is the best flowing oem manifold ever built by chrysler. I saw one dyno shootout where this intake produced 575hp, so it can move some air. 

If you're looking for a really good "stock appearing" manifold that makes excellent Tq & HP....check on e-bay for a vintage ch4b edelbrock dual plane. The stock throttle and kickdown linkage work fine with this manifold (unlike the RPM) and it looks stock.  They usually sell for ~$100.00 on ebay. The ch4b made much better power numbers(40+ hp) than the 70-71 stocker manifold in the aformentioned dyno thrash on the same engine. 

If you're planning on running factory ex manifolds, spec your camshaft with a wider 112* lsa to reduce overlap and allow the engine to exhale better. 



Ron

[jg68]

That was the intake i was thinking about but couldn't remember the #, so they got 40 hp out of it , so i guess it'll do MUCH better then the perf

[RECHRGD]

I went from a regular Performer (just about the same as a stock unit) to the Performer RPM and felt a HUGE difference.  It's a great intake.  The power increase will depend on your combination.  I run 1 7/8" Hooker headers with a Holley 750 DP.   Bob

[SeattleCharger]

Alright, thank you all.   I don't see that ch4b edelbrock on ebay right now, there are a couple 68-69 hp intakes right now, that's why I was asking. 
   A performer rpm intake is about 250 at schucks.  plus tax.  saw one new on ebay for 190, bit missed the auction barely.   That ch4b edelbrock sounds great,
      Is the 70 71 hp a lot better than a 68 hp intake?    well, either way, sounds like the ch4b or the performer rpm are much better.  thanks again.   

[SeattleCharger]

Now I am wondering, are the 70 hp exhaust manifolds significantly more high flowing than 68-69 hp exhaust manifolds?   I just got some 68 hp exhaust manifolds, hope they are ok.   

[firefighter3931]

Now I am wondering, are the 70 hp exhaust manifolds significantly more high flowing than 68-69 hp exhaust manifolds?   I just got some 68 hp exhaust manifolds, hope they are ok.   

Nate, all the HP ex manifolds flow the same....don't sweat it.  Start hunting for a ch4b intake on e-bay or anywhere you can find one. That intake will be an excellent match for the factory exhaust manifolds.


Ron

[MM1R/T]

firefighter3931:

Any idea where I could get a copy of that dyno shootout?
500+ HP with a factory intake sounds pretty appealing.

[firefighter3931]

firefighter3931:

Any idea where I could get a copy of that dyno shootout?
500+ HP with a factory intake sounds pretty appealing.

That info was in a mopar muscle BB manifold shootout awhile back....3-4 years ago (i think). The engine was pretty well built, heavily ported heads, 12:1 compression and a solid roller cam. I have the article somewhere....i'll see if i can find it and scan the results.


Ron

[MM1R/T]

Thanks. I've been looking for some info like that for awhile.

[41husk]

I was looking for a HP manifold that would have close to stock hieght, to accomadate a air grabber set up.  I have a edelbrock high rise and it scrapes the air cleaner with out the air grabber box on.  Ron suggested the Eddy CH4b as well and I have been unable to find one.  I posted up on here and got no response.  If you happen to run across more than one please let me know and I will do the same.

[SeattleCharger]

I was looking for a HP manifold that would have close to stock hieght, to accomadate a air grabber set up.  I have a edelbrock high rise and it scrapes the air cleaner with out the air grabber box on.  Ron suggested the Eddy CH4b as well and I have been unable to find one.  I posted up on here and got no response.  If you happen to run across more than one please let me know and I will do the same.

Ok, ya, I just put an ad in the parts wanted section, and I probably am at the top of the list, so I don't want to cut in line, if someone contacts me I will tell them you were on there first.   Hopefully we can both get one.   I was going to get my engine into the shop soon,  didn't know for sure if I needed to bring in intake with rebuild, otherwise I can get rebuild and work on installing the engine in the car, then I will have more time to find intake and put on the intake later, I mean, its two gaskets and some bolts, right?  I don't know.   

[41husk]

hey! thats not needed, If they contact you first buy it, but if you have more than one person contact you and you have already located one, please direct them to me.  This is for my #3 project not in a huge hurry.  If I can get one tommorow great if not thats fine.  There is no need to make sure I get mine first, but I appreciate the thought and good luck.  I hope you find two of them

[bill440rt]

I have a straight Edelbrock PERFORMER intake on my '68, with the Edelbrock 800 carb, and HP exhaust manifolds. I didn't go with the RPM because I was told it didn't clear the hood. I'm using the repro unsilenced wrinkle air cleaner.

Is this a bad combo? Should I have gone with the RPM? After I got the carb dialed in, motor runs good. My main problem is detonation at part throttle. I opened up the carb quite a bit, & also disconnected the vac advance. Motor has 10.25:1 compression. Cam is the MP 284/484 cam.

[SeattleCharger]

I don't know, but I heard that you can fit the performer rpm intake if you have a drop down aircleaner, but not a stock type aircleaner.  I would like to know this for sure though also.

[firefighter3931]

Thanks. I've been looking for some info like that for awhile.

I found the article : it appeared in the july 2002 issue of Mopar Muscle and is titled "Induction Extraveganza" (p.36)

The article is several pages long and they don't have a table with the results listed all together so i'll list them below.

(1) factory 70-71 iron manifold: 575hp@6200/581tq@4000
(2) Edelbrock CH4B : 607hp@6400/573tq@4000
(3) Wiend action plus : 597hp@6300/564tq@4000
(4) Edelbrock Performer RPM : 610hp@6200/590tq@4000
(5) Holley Street Dominator : 636hp@6200/598tq@5000
(6) Edelbrock Torker (original) : 605hp@5500/608tq@4700
(7) Edelbrock Torker 2 (new style) : 627hp@6300/593tq@4900
( Edelbrock TM7 ( old Tarantula series) : 618hp@6200/602tq@4900
(9) Edelbrock Victor : 637hp@6400/593tq@4700
(10) Mopar M1 (single plane) : 629hp@6100/589tq@4900
(11) Wiend team G (single plane) : 597hp@6300/569tq@4900


As you can see from these results ; the single plane manifolds all pushed the tq peak up into the 5000 rpm range while the dual planes were at peak tq by 4000 rpm. The Holley Street Dominator had the best average HP in the 4000-6600 range (572hp) and the best average TQ in the 4000-6600 range (571tq). This motor build is more of a race type combo and wouldn't represent what the average street guy would use. The dual plane is definately the way to go for a mild street application where most of the engine will spend it's time in the 2500-4500 rpm range. These results correlate with the dyno testing we did on my 446....The RPM dual plane made better TQ below 3500 rpm but fell off around 5800 where the single planes kept making more power. That's why it's so important to match all the components in order to achieve the optimum results.  In my case the RPM made 30hp less than the Street Dominator at peak hp.

The factory 70-71 manifold looks pretty descent as does the CH4B which made over 600hp on the test mule. That's pretty impressive for a stock height dual plane intake manifold, inmo.


Ron

[firefighter3931]

I have a straight Edelbrock PERFORMER intake on my '68, with the Edelbrock 800 carb, and HP exhaust manifolds. I didn't go with the RPM because I was told it didn't clear the hood. I'm using the repro unsilenced wrinkle air cleaner.

Is this a bad combo? Should I have gone with the RPM? After I got the carb dialed in, motor runs good. My main problem is detonation at part throttle. I opened up the carb quite a bit, & also disconnected the vac advance. Motor has 10.25:1 compression. Cam is the MP 284/484 cam.

Bill, you might have to play around with the timing a bit. A less agressive timing curve might help but it could also be an issue of too much compression for pump gas. It could also be going lean at part throttle causeing the detonation under load. Eddy carbs are very difficult to dial in on engines that have a big cam....the fuel curve is too conservative.


Ron

[MM1R/T]

Ron:

Thanks for the info. I'll see if I can find that issue.

I'm looking to make as much power as possible (and practical) with an engine that looks completely stock. Factory intake and exhaust manifolds, worked 906's, factory dual point distributor converted to electronic, maybe a Comp hydraulic roller cam. I doubt that it's going to make anywhere near 575 hp, but it's nice to see that the factory intake will produce that much power.

[Steve P.]

firefighter3931:

Any idea where I could get a copy of that dyno shootout?
500+ HP with a factory intake sounds pretty appealing.

That info was in a mopar muscle BB manifold shootout awhile back....3-4 years ago (i think). The engine was pretty well built, heavily ported heads, 12:1 compression and a solid roller cam. I have the article somewhere....i'll see if i can find it and scan the results.
Ron

Hey Ron, grab me a beer while your up..   

[firefighter3931]

Hey Ron, grab me a beer while your up..   

First round in Vegas is on me ! 


Ron

[SeattleCharger]

Hi, with a mild build 440 with hp exhaust manifolds, would the performer rpm give better low end response, torque, than the CH4B?

  from that test:

      (2) Edelbrock CH4B : 607hp@6400/573tq@4000

      (4) Edelbrock Performer RPM : 610hp@6200/590tq@4000

  I know that is a really built engine, but what about hp exhaust manifolds and maybe a 282 cam and holley 770 avenger?  better torque with performer rpm?

  Does a dropdown aircleaner restrict some air flow where it is narrowed down around carb air opening?

thanks,
Nate

[deputycrawford]

I run a 383 so its a short deck block. I run the Performer RPM that is painted Chrysler blue. i had the shop grind off the Edelbrock and the Performer RPM emblems. I sandblasted it again, hot tanked it and painted it up. Looks very stock but used a drop air cleaner. Click the link below and check out the pics. It was before I had the emblems ground off but you'll get the idea. Oh, I also still run the stock linkage and kickdown system. I want to buy the Mancini Racing taller bracket and paint it to look stock but it still runs fine.

http://geocities.com/kc8lbo/charger/charger.html

[SeattleCharger]

I run a 383 so its a short deck block. I run the Performer RPM that is painted Chrysler blue. i had the shop grind off the Edelbrock and the Performer RPM emblems. I sandblasted it again, hot tanked it and painted it up. Looks very stock but used a drop air cleaner. Click the link below and check out the pics. It was before I had the emblems ground off but you'll get the idea. Oh, I also still run the stock linkage and kickdown system. I want to buy the Mancini Racing taller bracket and paint it to look stock but it still runs fine.

http://geocities.com/kc8lbo/charger/charger.html

That is a good idea. that looks great!   Does the drop down air cleaner still let in as much air as a regular air cleaner on a shorter intake?   Those are nice looking headers, what kind are they?  $ ? 

[41husk]

can some one show a pic of the CH4B or tell me how to ID it?  Is it stamped CH4B, or are there any makings? Thanks