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1969 charger RT hood Question

Started by 69 rt, December 02, 2006, 09:07:41 AM

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69 rt

I was wondering if the indentation in the hood where the turn signals are located should be a different color than the rest of the hood. Someone was telling me these should be Blacked out. ???

Ghoste

There was a black decal in there actually.  To be honest though, I don't know if it was an option to have it or across the board.

69 rt

Thanks for the Quick reply, I will check on the decals.

Ghoste

And just to clarify, I am talking about the indented portions at the front of the big indent, where the turn signals are.  The big scallops or indents are another optional stripe thing altogether.

69 rt

ok,

Thanks again, I looked at Yearone and they sell a decal for the turn signal indents, Black or Flat Black I think the Flat Black would be the best choice for me.

JimShine

I believe the black decals were a 1968 item. The few 1969's I have seen them on have been restored/repainted.

Just 6T9 CHGR

Chris' '69 Charger R/T


8WHEELER

And I just found out this year from YO, that there is a flat black and a gloss black decal
for the hood decals. I had never had the option in the past years, what is correct  :shruggy:
You would think I would no, I have allways used gloss in the past, YO is no help.

Dan
74 Dart Sport 360, just for added fun.

tan top

 mine were gloss black  from the factory .
Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

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hemigeno

Performance Car Graphics ( http://www.performancecargraphics.com ) has the "Hood Depression Decals" listed for both '68 and '69 applications.  They are the same, I only pointed that out because they are appropriate for both models.

According to David Patik, the decals themselves were originally a textured, matte black (which means it couldn't be waxed).  That might be why they are also offered by YearOne in gloss black - so you don't have to do something like mask off the stripes when you're doing a wax job.


tan top

Quote from: hemigeno on December 04, 2006, 07:28:09 PM
According to David Patik, the decals themselves were originally  are appropriate for both models.a textured, matte black (which means it couldn't be waxed).  That might be why they are also offered by YearOne in gloss black - so you don't have to do something like mask off the stripes when you're doing a wax job.


 
                  thats strange ,  the  original ones on my charger  were definatly  gloss black   , not textured .  :confused:
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Ghoste

I don't recall ever seeing them in anything else but gloss black.   I have a pic here of an unrestored car and they look gloss black in the photo but who knows what 35 years of wear will do to a decal?

hemigeno

Well, that's why I mentioned whose material I found that in.  I may have drawn a conclusion from his catalog material though - he only offers them in textured matte black.  From that, I concluded that his opinion was that they were originally of that type.  If you know much about David, he's a stickler for details.

I shouldn't have said anything about David's opinion on the subject without asking him - although the paint on the NOS turn signals that I have is flat black.

Chalk another one up in the "Who knows??" category...


tan top


                (hemigeno)  you say its paint on your NOS hood turn signals  not a decal ?
                                                                           
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69charger500se


I believe that the gloss black decals were used on all paint colors except black. Black cars used the flat black hood depression and tail stripe decals. Gloss black decals would not be seen well on a gloss black car.

THE CHARGER PUNK

im not 100% sure but i think they were only available on hemi cars-MATT

tan top

Quote from: 69charger500se on December 06, 2006, 01:36:32 AM

I believe that the gloss black decals were used on all paint colors except black. Black cars used the flat black hood depression and tail stripe decals. Gloss black decals would not be seen well on a gloss black car.
:scratchchin:       that makes sense , good point   :yesnod:       
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hemigeno

Quote from: tan top on December 05, 2006, 06:35:25 PM

                (hemigeno)  you say its paint on your NOS hood turn signals  not a decal ?
                                                                           

Yep, the turn signal faces are painted.  I didn't take the time to dig through my NOS parts stash, but I did find a set of original turn signals laying on the shelf that clearly shows the painted surfaces.  You can see the black paint on the edges, so it is definitely not a decal.  The paint looks matte/flat black to me, but I'm no expert.

See what you think...

tan top

 thanks for the picture (hemigeno) :thumbs:    intresting  ,   yeah defanitly looks  matte  :yesnod: , my originals had no black left on them ,   
         
         
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Brock Samson


Ghoste

This is an unrestored car.  I'm inclined to think it's more of a semi-gloss than anything the more I look at it.

tan top

 good picture ( Ghoste ) :2thumbs:,   :scope:   my decals were definatly gloss  from the factory - on the original paint   :shruggy:
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Ghoste

Gene's pic is definitely flat though.  Can a semi-gloss fade to a flat?  Could a gloss first fade to a semi and then a flat?  The car I took the pic from had 15k miles on it.

hemigeno

Dumb question here... are those even decals in the hood depressions?

I know my decals don't fit anywhere CLOSE to that snug around the perimeter edges.  They are reproductions though, so I won't try to draw any conclusions from those.

It also could very well be that the black on the turn signal I posted has faded.  Only the shadow knows how much it has oxidized.  Wish I had the time to go dig those other T/S lenses out...   :rotz:

Ghoste

You know, from that pic it really is hard to tell.  I do know the car has never been restored but it also was meant as a bit of a show puppy right from the second Dodge generated the order for it.  I tend to think they are decals but the car isn't in my garage so I can't prove it.  The lower edge of the depression with the signal lens appear to have some wrinkled lip at the edges but that could just be the light.

resq302

Something to consider, I know on semi flat parts that I have tried to clean with either a cleaner wax or a polish, it ended up leaving a shine on the semi flat black parts if I took off the cleaner wax or polish before it had a chance to haze up really good.  On the other side, if you leave it on too long, it will turn the piece a milky whitish color.
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

scottmiller

Great question on the indentations.  I learn something new every day on this site.

When I got my car in the late 80's, the signals were missing and I picked up a pair at the local junk yard (I think I paid like 10 bucks for them.. oh how times have changed!).  They had chipped black paint on them like the previous photo, I thought it was just a sloppy tape job on a repaint or something not knowing the indents could have come in a different color.  My hood indents were painted along with the body and I never really thought about it.  I have seen cars both ways and never really knew if the painted indentations were factory or not.

So, the question is... was the blackout a seperate factory option or specific to the R/T's and/or hemi cars?

-Scott

tan top

Quote from: resq302 on December 07, 2006, 10:16:48 PM
Something to consider, I know on semi flat parts that I have tried to clean with either a cleaner wax or a polish, it ended up leaving a shine on the semi flat black parts 
                        :iagree:    :yesnod:                   but would the decals turn gloss by doing this  :shruggy:

Quote from: Ghoste on December 07, 2006, 04:58:05 AM
Gene's pic is definitely flat though.  Can a semi-gloss fade to a flat?  Could a gloss first fade to a semi and then a flat?  The car I took the pic from had 15k miles on it.
good question (ghoste)    my charger had  spent all is  life in Texas , with most of it in the s/w area i believe   ,  if the decals were      (  fade-able )  with sun light / weather   wouldn't the sun have  done a number on mine   :shruggy:
Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

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Old Dodge dealer photos wanted
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Ghoste

Lol.  I don't know.  Two weeks ago, I would have sworn they were gloss just going off the cuff.  Now I'm not so sure what they should have been.  I'm going to stay with semi gloss just because it's a fence sitting answer.  A little glossy, a little matte.  (is a little matte like a Charger punk?)  (sorry, bad pun)

TylerCharger69

I thought those stripes were standard on all R/T's  and optional on everything else....

resq302

From what Performance Car Graphics told me, they came on every car.  Often cars have the wrong color on them as other places sell them in matte black, gloss black, and I have even seen White.  Dave said that the only color that was on the cars was the matte black.  Again, just going by what he told me.
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

Ghoste

So I wonder what he'd say about the pic I posted?

resq302

Its hard to tell unless you are the original owner and know exactly what you did to the car.  Like I mentioned earlier, either a wax or a polish could have been put over it to give it that shine but who knows.  I know on a Jeep that I had, I had a satin vinyl decal made by 3M and when I waxed the Jeep, I got a little on it and made a sheen  to it.  The only way to make it uniform in appearance after that was to do the whole decal and take it off right away other wise it could have left it chalky white.  Made that mistake with my moms woodgrain side decal on her Caravan.  Needless to say, dad did not like the new "aged look" that the white film gave the vinyl wood. :rotz:
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

Ghoste

Well I'm not the original owner (wish I was but that's a different story) but it is a well known car in the hobby so I can vouch for it being unrestored but not what's been done to it over the years.
I can't ever recall seeing a flat black one though until Gene's pic.  I suppose for me I remain a skeptic even though I'd quickly add that Dave knows far more about the subject than I do.

tan top

yeah i believe you guys  :2thumbs:    i should of taken a picture  before i  peeled them off  :laugh:  no make that wire brushed them off , when i stripped the paint , as they had been on there since new  they were stuck like glue . i had seen  a few  other  unrestored  chargers with -  i would not say   matte but looked semi matte decals , and thought hmmm ..  mine had gloss originally  and ordered a set from year one ,  thought know more about it until this thread ,  the  more i'm thinking about it  i wonder if  the  black decals could of  been polished up  to look like gloss :-\   
                     
Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

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Just 6T9 CHGR

I always thought they were decals as well in satin/matte black.  thats how I have mine.

I dont however have my signal lights painted black to match.  I never liked the look with the decals & the lights painted....they dont seem to "flow" together
Now the pic that Ghost posted with the what looks like the painted depressions looks like it "matches"

Below is the declas with the lights painted....mine without them painted and an NOS set.....
Chris' '69 Charger R/T


Ghoste

Now the set in the green car look flat and the lens itself looks semi gloss to me in that pic.  I just keep getting more curious about this.

Just 6T9 CHGR

Mine are a matte finish
Chris' '69 Charger R/T


Ghoste

Lighting has a big role too huh?  Yours look a lot flatter in that pic than the first one.

resq302

One thing to remember too about the green car is that vinyl decals and the plastic painted lens have two different color backgrounds.  The lens has an amber background with black paint on top of it.  I guess it is like painting one car red and using a gray primer and another car the same color red but using a white primer.  The red car with the white primer will have the red paint standing out looking brighter than the car with the red paint and gray primer.  There is a lot to take into consideration, age of the decal, exposure to the elements, what kind of care it might have received (garage kept vs. abuse to the weather 24/7).  It also might be possible that Mopar used two different vendors and because of that, there were two (maybe more) different dye lots for the vinyl decals.   :shruggy:
Brian
1969 Dodge Charger (factory 4 speed, H code 383 engine,  AACA Senior winner, 2008 Concours d'Elegance participant, 2009 Concours d'Elegance award winner)
1970 Challenger Convert. factory #'s matching red inter. w/ white body.  318 car built 9/28/69 (AACA Senior winner)
1969 Plymough GTX convertible - original sheet metal, #'s matching drivetrain, T3 Honey Bronze, 1 of 701 produced, 1 of 362 with 440 4 bbl - auto

Lord Warlock

My factory ones were flat or matte colored, not glossy.  In fact it matched the stripe in the back.  But when I stripped the paint, I had to use a wire brush (on a grinder) to get the black surface off.  I really don't believe mine were decals, because they didn't peel off even around the edges where the vinyl rear stripe would fray and tear.  The hood indentations were hard as hell to get off, if it was a sticker it would have come off easier. 
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.

Carl1

What about if the car didn't have the hood turn signals. Was the black stripe still used? I recently got some block out plates and they were painted black, they looked original, I didn't think anything of it I asummed they were off a black car until I read this thread. Any insights?

Just 6T9 CHGR

Good question...I would assume black to match the depressions

If you look at this 69 RT/SE that MCR restored....they painted the depressions




Chris' '69 Charger R/T


MM1R/T

There's an NOS set on eBay right now. Item number 220059746022.

Someone could buy them and the mystery would be solved.

tan top

Quote from: Lord Warlock on December 09, 2006, 10:14:46 PM
My factory ones were flat or matte colored, not glossy.  In fact it matched the stripe in the back.  But when I stripped the paint, I had to use a wire brush (on a grinder) to get the black surface off.  I really don't believe mine were decals, because they didn't peel off even around the edges where the vinyl rear stripe would fray and tear.  The hood indentations were hard as hell to get off, if it was a sticker it would have come off easier. 
                     mine were defiantly decals , i could  pick at the edges of the decal   and tiny bits would  come off   while heating it   with a hot air gun , took too long so  out came a wire brush on a drill  . 
         
Quote from: MM1R/T on December 11, 2006, 12:44:38 AM
There's an NOS set on eBay right now. Item number 220059746022.

Someone could buy them and the mystery would be solved.
         
                  good idea  :yesnod:   , no seriously though  mine were defiantly gloss , as all the votes are for  semi or matte  from more knollage able guys than me  , mine must of been shined up some how ,( no the hood never had a coat of clear over it ) it was original paint .
              looks like i'm going to be  ordering  some   matte  decals  now ;D
Feel free to post any relevant picture you think we all might like to see in the threads below!

Charger Stuff 
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C500 & Daytonas & Superbirds
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95432.0.html
Interesting pictures & Stuff 
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,109484.925.html
Old Dodge dealer photos wanted
 http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,120850.0.html

Just 6T9 CHGR

Or if you add the V21 option you wouldnt need any ;)
Chris' '69 Charger R/T


Lord Warlock

If they were decals, they had some damn good adhesive on them.  Mine never peeled or fell off.  Of course the tape stripe on the back didn't peel off either, split in a few places over the years though.  I'd be tempted to buy the NOS ones on ebay then take them to a sign shop and have new ones made for resale.  I'm considering the v21 visuals on the current repaint.
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.

Just 6T9 CHGR

 
Quote from: Lord Warlock on December 11, 2006, 12:07:29 PM
. I'm considering the v21 visuals on the current repaint.
That makes 2 of us :scratchchin:
Chris' '69 Charger R/T