Another 440 carb reccomendation...help.

[69chargeryeehaa]

Hey guys,

here's my current setup, i'll tell you as much as i know, 750cfm carter competition serries carb (same as eddy 1407), eddy CH4B dual plane intake, heddmann hedders with flowmaster 40's, MP ele ign, 727, 8 3/4 suregrip with 3.23, 28" tall rear tires, guess that's about it, and all the internals on the motor are stock (cam, heads, bored 0.030" over).  Motor has about 30K mi since rebuild, and is in very good shape, good compression ect....

The current carb runs kinda crappy, hard to start cold (manual choke), idles meahhh, ect.....I was thinking about getting another carb for the car, the current one is perty old, probabally worn out, i've been thru it alot, timing set at various settings with no improvement, just overall a not-so bad running car that's street driven, mostly crusin with the occasional stomp here and there.  I would like to stick with a eddy carb, since i know them inside out, and i hear from the consensus that the 1407's have issues, although i did manage to tune out the typical off-idle bog, it just does'nt run right.  I was thinking about getting a eddy avs 650 with electric choke, and the 600 performer would maybe be too small for the 440, keep in mind i'd rather have economy than performance, although i'd like to have a little fun once in a while, the car is plenty fast with factory timing specs, any more timing and it likes to ping.  But regardless of timing, the carb is just not right, and like i said is not really good on the street at light throttle, starting, idle, ect......what would be a good smooth, economic carb for the 440? is the 650 avs too small?  i would think being a smaller carb it would be alot better at light/part throttle responsivness getting better signal to the carb with the smaller one.      apprecieate any advice/good 440 combos.

[firefighter3931]

The problem with the Eddy/carter carbs is that the fuel curve is too conservative for anything but a stock 440 and even then it is questionable. If it's pinging under load then it's probably a secondary jetting issue. I'm not a fan of those carbs and never have been....then again i don't run anything stock. 

The Profrom carbs are really descent and have a fuel curve that is designed for a warmed up engine. They make a double pumper and vacuum secondary model at 750cfm. I would look at either of those.

Fwiw, member just69chrgr (Chris) was having all kinds of tuning issues with his carb and i recommended the proform upgrade. The difference was night and day according to Chris....idled cleaner and picked up engine vacuum. His upgrade was just the main body because he allready had a 750 vacuum carb. In your case the complete carb would need to be purchased.


Ron

[69chargeryeehaa]

well that still does'nt answer my question lol, who makes the proform carb? that a eddy carb?  i was wondering if the eddy avs 650 would be a good carb? i mean the stock factory carb was a 625cfg i believe?

[oldkimmer]

There is no reason the eddy avs shouldnt be as good as the factory avs. I am a big carter fan and for the daily driver they cant be beat. Yes u give up some performance to a holley, demon or proform, but u save on milage. The avs will be great on your car, especially for the guys that would rather drive than tinker............. Kim

[69chargeryeehaa]

that's great advice, but do you think the 650 avs will be too small?  I called the eddy tech line and they reccommended it, they said it would work alot better than the 750afb i have now, mostly due to the small carb would be alot more responsive at low speeds, and loose top end power, but my car is basically stock, and the original carbs were 600-650cfm 4bbls right?  so i was figuring since my car will never see over 4500rpm or where ever the stock shift point is, then the 650 would be good for a serious driver like mine is, i've had my charger for just over a year and 2 months, i've put 30,000mi on it!!!!  it ain't no garage queen that's for sure.

[firefighter3931]

well that still does'nt answer my question lol, who makes the proform carb?

I guess you're wanting to hear that a Carter/Edelbrock carb will work on your car....maybe it will, maybe it won't. I can tell you from experience that neither is the best choice.    650cfm is waaaay too small, even for a stock 440.  The only Eddy i carb i would consider for this application is the Thunder series 800cfm AVS.

Proform makes their own line of carbs. They're based on a holley design and infinately more tunable than an afb/avs style carb. 

http://www.proformparts.com/mistore/productdisplay.php?sku=763651&hdwt=31101&loc=101&dealer=no&company_id=100719


Ron

[SeattleCharger]

  I was looking into a holley 870 avenger for my 440, but thought it might be to big, now I don't know.   The thing is I am going with hp exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2 inch dual exhaust.   I am going to use an edelbrock rpm high rise intake and at least a 282 or 292 cam with a 2500 stall.   Would the holley 870 avenger be to big?  thanks, Nate

[jg68]

  I was looking into a holley 870 avenger for my 440, but thought it might be to big, now I don't know.   The thing is I am going with hp exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2 inch dual exhaust.   I am going to use an edelbrock rpm high rise intake and at least a 282 or 292 cam with a 2500 stall.   Would the holley 870 avenger be to big?  thanks, Nate

I don't know that much about the avenger, if that 870 is a v. sec., it might be ok, but i think you'll be better off with the 770 avenger or the 800 thunder series OR a prepped PF style 750 v. sec., if you were running headers, more stall, 391-410 gears & say around a true 10.5 comp. or more, then the 870 would work better, i think the 870 avenger would be better suited for a 499 ci. engine.

[firefighter3931]

Inmo, the 770 would be a better choice for your engine Nate. The smaller carb will produce better throttle response and still flow enough to not choke the engine at wide open throttle. 


Ron

[oldkimmer]

So a 770 will flow enough for a 440 with a 2500 stall, hirise intake+a290 ish cam, but a 650 is waaaay to small for a stock 440. I must be missing something here...

[myk]

Well the original 440 flowed with a 730 or something didn't it?  If bone stock is flowing at least 700 cfm then anything smaller would be inadequate...

[firefighter3931]

So a 770 will flow enough for a 440 with a 2500 stall, hirise intake+a290 ish cam, but a 650 is waaaay to small for a stock 440. I must be missing something here...

You could allways throw it on the dyno and see how much vacuum it's pulling at WOT  INMO...a 650 belongs on a 383.  440's like lots of air....even stock.


Ron

[jg68]

So a 770 will flow enough for a 440 with a 2500 stall, hirise intake+a290 ish cam, but a 650 is waaaay to small for a stock 440. I must be missing something here...

You could allways throw it on the dyno and see how much vacuum it's pulling at WOT  INMO...a 650 belongs on a 383.  440's like lots of air....even stock.


Ron

I agree, i put a 650dp on my stock 440, it ran ok, but it ran much better with the 750dp

[69chargeryeehaa]

i think i'll just leave the carter 750 competition serries on my car (same as eddy preformer 1407afb), i re-jetted it last night, and swaped out metering rods and springs, got it running perfect.  I think the stock 440 carb was a carter 4bbl 625cfm or so?  the 650 would be a better carb for crusin, the small carb would have a stronger signal, and be better at the bottom end responce, but it would for sure loose top end over the 750.  Alot of people over carb their motors, which is great for the track, but street driving is totally different, a 440 only needs 600-650 cfm to run well on the street, espically since my car is a street only car, and hardly sees a race, well sometimes.