avgas, anyone run it in there cars?

[derailed]

   Can anyone tell me if avgas is safe to run in your car. Ive been running a little bit of cam2 so it will get some lead and bump up the octane a bit . Avgas is abit cheaper but i didnt know if it was safe to run in my motor.

[4402tuff4u]

Back in 1985 when I was in college, my friend and I used to put some on his Chevy Chevette and that thing used to scream. I was in flight school so when I used to land and call the flight dispatcher for a "top off" we use to take like ten gallons once the plane was filled. I believe AVGAS 110 is the stuff the Cessna's and Piper Archers I was flying were using. The AVGAS is actually light blue and evaporates instantly like Acetone. I'm not sure what it would due to the valves in a car engine. You might want to add some lead additives. A little bit of Marvel Mystery oil would'nt hurt either. My guess that fuel must be running in the neighborhood of $ 5.50 - 6.00 per gallon. How much is CAm2 running at? How about this stuff adverticed as Rockett Brand fuel? 

[aifilaw]

I've run a lot of different gas in my charger...but to answer your question simply, Av-gas will run, in order for it to run the best you will need to advance your timing slightly (tune of 2-5 degree's depending on the fuel), 50/50 av-gas/normal gas is a good mix, never go above 90/10, its just too dry a fuel and will eat away at your fuel lines and rubber and gaskets throughout the fuel system, little hard on the valves too depending on what vehicle. it's perfectly safe, for a cheaper method, find the formulas for tualene and other paint thinners and how to make gas using tranny fluid oil that and some other stuff.

[John_Kunkel]

I have a car that has run on a steady diet of 100LL avgas since '93 and have suffered none of the problems often associated with its use.

[derailed]

Thats good news John. I just called Saratoga county airport here and its $3.10/gallon. The guy said there not really suppose to sell it for that use but if i go after hours when no one is there and use the credit card at the pump i can do that. Im going to try it 50/50 for awhile and see how it does.

[cudaken]

 Hee, Hee, Hee, from the old site Cam 2 was the code name for Beer. I came up with that when I was doing a Hemi Charger. Steve was filling up his Charger and asked him if he like some cam 2 as well. After that the name stuck.

Nothing to do with what you guys are talking about. Just a little history from the old Charger site.

                              Cuda Ken

[Ghoste]

I had heard it was a bad fuel to run in a street car because it was formulated for higher altitude.  Something about flash points and such and even though it was higher octane, it didn't burn properly in areas closer to sea level.  Urban myth or is there any truth to this?

[4402tuff4u]

That could be a myth on the AVG110LL, that's the stuff that Cessna's and Piper's fly on which are simply Lycoming engines (similar to Porches) that are being operated with two sets of spark plugs (magnetoes) at altitudes of below 12,000 ASL with or without carburator heat. Once you start going above that altitude they begin to go into the Turbo props and turbine engines. I'm not 100% sure but that fuel might be different and that fuel in addition to jet fuel might in fact not burn properly at lower altitudes or at all on a automobile engine. I know "jet fuel" will not burn on a automobile engine.

Think about it, if that fuel would increase performance considerably, I think dragsters and other high performance vehicles would be using it on a regular basis.

[John_Kunkel]

I had heard it was a bad fuel to run in a street car because it was formulated for higher altitude.   Something about flash points and such and even though it was higher octane, it didn't burn properly in areas closer to sea level.   Urban myth or is there any truth to this?

Think about this, the only time in an aircraft's flight that it has to make maximum power is on the ground during the takeoff roll. Ground is often near sea level.

During cruise flight at altitude the power level is usually in the 65-75% range.

[Ghoste]

Well, I have thought about that John and that did occur to me, however, think about the time an aircraft is operating under the least normal conditions as far as temperature, atmosheric pressure, oxygen content, humidity, and the potential for carb icing.
Are there any chemists on this site who can shed some light on this?  For me anyway. 

[derailed]

Well im not going to be flying at any high altituded like the duke boys but i figure running it at 50/50 shouldnt hurt anything. Im sure there has to be alot of people out there flying low altitudes in small planes like crop dusters that are burning this stuff.  Maybe we should get Mad Scientist involved here, I believe he is a chemist.

[gsmopar]

I've run it for years with no issues.  Smells and runs great!

[Ghoste]

So without hard facts, we're pretty much in agreement that it doesn't hurt anything, probably helps (the lead if nothing else) but doesn't likely offer a huge performance boost (not on a par with actual racing fuel anyway)?
Just for the record, I've run the stuff myself.   

[derailed]

Thats the way i look at it. What the hell its cheaper than premium, higher octane and has lead and like you said, smells great.

[aifilaw]

I've spent a few paragraphs detailing out the facts on avgas and why it does what it does, and with the help of a chemist done the tuolene et cetera. but that was on the old site, suffice it to say its safe and good stuff.

[derailed]

I appreciate everyones reponses as they pretty much cleared up any worries i had. I know other people that do run it in there cars and havent had problems but i figured i would double check with you guys.

[Runner]

keep in mind that if you have a low compresion motor that doesnt need hi octane they your car will likly run worse with av gas or race fuel.     

    my 383 slowed down with av gas  and it slowed down with race gas as well.  it was a 8.9to1 engine with a 484 mp cam.

[Blown70]

I did in my 69 440 and it loved it.  Ran the best on that out of any fuel.

Tom

[derailed]

my motor is a completly stock 68 440. Its never been apart or even out of the car for that matter. But i figure with the higher compression it should run better. I got kinda stupid with the "beer" and ive been running alot of that in the last few weeks and noticed a huge difference over the 93. Kind of funny how the price of "beer" hasnt changed at all here.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have used it for years too , most of the rumors of engine damage seem to come from race fuel companies that want to sell you their 3 x the cost fuels

[8WHEELER]

I have always run a race fuel mix with my 12.5 to 1 comp motor with great sucsess, a friend of
mine with an all stock 10.25 to 1 426 Hemi engine runs 100% avgas all the time going on 8yrs
now no problems yet.

Dan

[yellowcuda]

I work at an airport and can tell you that we have had a ton of calls for it.  Problem is here the cost for Avgas 100LL is 4.47 a gallon so when gas is 3.00 you tell me what you think.  Jet fuel is similiar to Diesel, but also more expensive then diesel at the pump. We have put some de-fueled jet fuel in Jonathan's diesel before with no problems.  We thought about the 100LL for the 426 Hemi Charger but it requires the 118 race fuel so nope.

[MoparYoungGun]

There was a huge thread on this on the old site. The consensus was you won't hurt anything by running it. I believe it was also reccomend to mix in some pump gas.

[Steve P.]

I have used it for years too , most of the rumors of engine damage seem to come from race fuel companies that want to sell you their 3 x the cost fuels

  And you beat me to it..     I used to hear that all the time when I was in the service and racing at a track near the air Fields..


Seems like all oil companies/fuel companies are the same.. Hehehe

[Ghoste]

Hey Neil, any issues with buying it out there in Alberta?

[derailed]

I work at an airport and can tell you that we have had a ton of calls for it.   Problem is here the cost for Avgas 100LL is 4.47 a gallon so when gas is 3.00 you tell me what you think.  

Wow, 4.47 I just checked here a couple of days ago and it was 3.10 for 100LL of course it might be 4.00 now

[Ghoste]

Still cheaper than racing fuel.

[Chryco Psycho]

Hey Neil, any issues with buying it out there in Alberta?

no issues here

[Kryp2nitE]

any issues when using hardened seats?

why cant u use leaded fuel on newer cars? o2 sensors?

[Ghoste]

Likely O2 sensors as well but originally, lead was removed because it clogged up the catalytic converters.

[Kryp2nitE]

so what would the consesus be if im gonna use a wideband 02 system for my 440?

avgas or no?

[beenaround]

bro clue me in! what kind of system  is this??? i run cam2 110 octane with a 440 six pack stock compression.i can also run 93 unleade but with a loss of power.

[derailed]

not really any kind of system, instead of running cam 2 in my car im going to start running 100 lowlead aviation fuel. Its sufficient octane for a stock 440 motor, has lead and is almost $3.00 a gallon cheaper than cam 2.

[derailed]

keep in mind that if you have a low compresion motor that doesnt need hi octane they your car will likly run worse with av gas or race fuel.        

     my 383 slowed down with av gas   and it slowed down with race gas as well.   it was a 8.9to1 engine with a 484 mp cam.

Well a little update on my topic. I just got back from the airport and put 6 gallons 0f 100LL in. The motor being a stock 68 440 seems to run alot better with the avgas than the heavy mix of cam2 i  was runnin, actually a big difference. Looks like its a happy median between premium and race gas. The price was $3.60/gallon

[Afflyer]

Derailed, I have the exact same type of engine you've got and I've ran 5 gallons of AVGAS for every fill up when I lived in Little Rock, Arkansas.  Just do exactly as you've done- no more than six gallons are needed, and you'll be very happy with the results! 

I've still got to find a place around my home here in the Florida panhandle, that will sell me some AVGAS- I miss how well my 440 ran with that mix!

Bradley