Would You? Trade a restored hemi clone for the real thing unrestored?

[lilwendal]

Heres the deal. Looking for some opiniuns on what the masses think.  I have an offer to trade my fully restored 68 hemi clone charger for a unrestored real car.  Its a complete car except for the original engines is missing.  He is providing another engine with correct heads, intake and exhaust manifolds but the bottom end is mopar performance stuff.  Lots of nice options.  Power steering, Power disc, Console car, Power windows, Rear defrost, Rear speakers. Its hard to give a just completed car and go back to square one but I can build a clone anytime but there are so few rear hemi cars out there.  The color scheme kinda reminds me of a pimps car.  JJ1 Gold with  white top and white interior.  Gotta go back correct with it because  he has the original build sheet and fender tag.  Would be wrong to not build it from the sheet. I have no pics that i can post but did attach the fendertag plus a pic of my car.
Well, What do you think?

[Ghoste]

For me, it is a probably.  It depends on how fully restored and how unrestored we're talking about. 

[Hemidoug]

Can't go wrong with an original car!!! How much work does the body need? For me, it would depend on how much rot/body work was needed.....

[dkn1997]

The only way I would pull the trigger is if the real hemi car had it's original motor.

[Chargen69]

The only way I would pull the trigger is if the real hemi car had it's original motor.

I'd keep my car if it was as fine as yours is.

[PocketThunder]

How may summers can you stand to go without a car?  2..... 3...5.??  I dont know, my impulse would be to trade but after just finishing 2 years restoring my 68 i'm sick of it and just want to drive it!

I say do it if you have the bankroll to get the other one restored within a reasonable time frame...

[6pkrunner]

The main draw for wanting an original car these days is for the money factor. The money factor means keeping the thing in primo shape so the investment potential remains high. To do that the car is seldom driven. So the question is, do you want a 2 ton paperweight that seldom sees the light of day for fear of destroying an investment, or something to use more often? Only you can answer that.
Or if you're really rich and don't need to worry about the return on investment, in which case you don't own a clone but the real thing as you could afford it initially.

While having a pedigree is indeed a good thing, if said toy then tells you what to do or not to do with it, well......

[BigBlockSam]

The only way I would pull the trigger is if the real hemi car had it's original motor. 

you can drive and enjoy your car rite now. you'd be starting all over again . 

[WheresMyCharger]

The only way I would pull the trigger is if the real hemi car had it's original motor.

I'm with dkn
You have a sweet ride now, enjoy it. (Original motor with non-matching body )

[terrible one]

As others have said, becuase the real deal doesn't have it's original motor, I wouldn't do it. Enjoy your car!

[lilwendal]

I enjoy the restoration.  I've already started into the next 68 charger I've got here now.  True its great to hop in the hemi clone to go pick up a gallon of milk but I would do the same with the real hemi.  Its still a car. Unfortunatly i would be forced to sell the real hemi shortly after its completion because of the money involved. I'm not rich. I do everything to these car from the metal work to the actual painting myself. 1000 hours a car easy.  I just keep rolling the funds from 1 car to the next.The blue 69 I finished in Jan.  I had 15 into and sold for 30. This car I have 40 into and was selling for 80. If I get this hemi I'll end up putting another 10 to 20 into it to finish.  So if you call it 80 to 100 into the car whats it worth completed? I had promised the family a nice vacation when the clone sells but now there wont be any money changing hands. The wife realizes the importance of a real hemi car so I'm lucky there. It was currently being restored and all metal work and most body work has been completed. It really is at nice point to pick it up.  This car completed could almost get me to a point were after it sells I could do this full time. Thats my plan in about 5 years. Well Sundays the day we are supposed to swap if we do so I've got a day to think on it

[8WHEELER]

Boy that is not an easy decision, I know how much I would like a real Hemi car, but
I could not afford a Hemi project car so I don't have your problem 

The color combo I have never seen before, every JJ1 Gold 68, with a white top, I have
ever seen or heard of, had a tan/gold int. My wife's 68 RT Charger JJ1 Gold car has a white
top and tan/gold int. There is one on ebay that somebody put half white int in a gold int car,
looks real strange.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-1968-Charger-383-330-HP-Auto-Trans-Disc-Brakes_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6199QQhashZitem260053531629QQihZ016QQitemZ260053531629QQrdZ1

Dan

[hemi68charger]

Mike... Well.... How do you feel thus far..... Planning on it? Did I sway you one way or another?...... One thing about your thoughts on selling after completion is that, depending on the market and condition of the restoration, you could probably pay off your mortgage... Believe me, those thoughts about my j-code '68 creep into my head as I get older.....

Troy

[mridolfo]

Do you think that unrestored nom hemi car worth $80K ?

[Chris G.]

Did I see that purple car being shopped on ebay a few weeks ago? I could have sworn it was that car.

Me personally, I would love to own a real Hemi car (or six pack). If the car is not a complete basket case, I would seriously consider it.

ps- Did a guy that owns a purple '68, refer to a factory gold car as being "pimp like"? 

[lilwendal]

Troy, At this point I'm going to do the swap. The only issue would be if he cant come up with the other items for the car he promises he has. IE hemi K member, correct exhaust manifolds. Monday morning is the swap.
mridolfo I'm not exactly sure what this unrestored car would cost in present condition.  Theres not a lot to compare it to. Honestly, I really want to do a correct hemi car and since actual cash I have in my car is 40 I think Its OK. I Could  continue to push a cash sale on my car then make him a cash offer on his but we both have something the other wants now.
Chrisg, You got me with the "pimp like" quote. That was funny.

[lilwendal]

Anybody have a picture of this color combo on file?

[blackcharger]

The only way I would pull the trigger is if the real hemi car had it's original motor.

thats the oNLY way I'd even consider it. Then I'd pass if my car looked a sweet as yours. Hard to beat a finished car.

[8WHEELER]

Anybody have a picture of this color combo on file?

I said I did, but no white int with JJ1 Gold, I would bet they never made one   

Dan

[bullit68]

when i first read your post,i was going to reply-DO IT!because to most mopar guys,an original hemi car is the holy grail.i have two that i have to restore and am happy just owning them.to me i'm living my childhood dream.but after reading further down in your post that you are only interested in it for the resale value,i now say dont.not that thats a bad thing,to each his own,but the economics dont make sense.if you can get 80k for your car,then you are paying 80k for the hemi car.regardless of what you have into yours.now with 80k plus all of your time and money invested,what is the hemi car worth?how much profit?when the cars price gets up over a 100k,people tend to get more picky.being a  gold car and not having the original engine will hurt its resale value.percentage wise,how does the potential profit on this car stack up compared to the other cars you've done?

[tecmopar]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that in '68 the Hemi blocks were NOT stamped like the other motors. It would just need to be a "Date Correct" casting. If it is the case, how would anyone ever know for sure, and how DO they know today if their cars are " Numbers Matching". It would still be dishonest though. If the market takes a dive I believe that a "Clone" would be affected more and the LEAST affected cars would be the Original Hemi Cars. Again, for some reason that keeps popping into my head, about the stampings, but I just can't remember for sure. Good luck on what ever choice you make.

[BrianShaughnessy]

  I wouldn't agree to that swap.    By stating you only have $40K into your finished car... does that mean your time and labor was free?    If you time and labor is free,  can I send a car over to have you restore it for me for $parts$ only?   

  By my guesstimates,   a unrestored '68 hemi car without the #s motor is worth that same $40K but how much is your time away from the family worth to you starting over?

  People that ask for swaps are usually the ones thinking they're getting the better end of the deal. 

  Do what you want - I'm just stating what I think.   Good luck. 

[firefighter3931]

  I wouldn't agree to that swap.    By stating you only have $40K into your finished car... does that mean your time and labor was free?    If you time and labor is free,  can I send a car over to have you restore it for me for $parts$ only?   

  By my guesstimates,   a unrestored '68 hemi car without the #s motor is worth that same $40K but how much is your time away from the family worth to you starting over?

  People that ask for swaps are usually the ones thinking they're getting the better end of the deal. 

  Do what you want - I'm just stating what I think.   Good luck. 

well said Brian.  To me numbers don't mean a whole lot....and your car is done....not a project.



Ron

[hemi68charger]

Mike,
Here's a picture of a HH1 Light gold / black interior '68 Hemi... Belongs to a cool guy up North..... It's the closest I have to Medium Gold Poly I have...

Troy

[hemi68charger]

... By stating you only have $40K into your finished car... does that mean your time and labor was free?    If you time and labor is free,  can I send a car over to have you restore it for me for $parts$ only?   
 

Some people get enjoyment from the restoration of their rides.

Troy

[BrianShaughnessy]

... By stating you only have $40K into your finished car... does that mean your time and labor was free?    If you time and labor is free,  can I send a car over to have you restore it for me for $parts$ only?   
 

Some people get enjoyment from the restoration of their rides.

Troy

Understood.   I know there's people like Jet that restored the 69 hemi and sold it when it was done... nothing wrong with that but I'm sure he didn't take a virtual loss on it etiher. 

There's lots of folks like that around that restore cars for fun and profit.   Good for them.    I  like to fix up cars so I can drive them 

[hemi68charger]

... By stating you only have $40K into your finished car... does that mean your time and labor was free?    If you time and labor is free,  can I send a car over to have you restore it for me for $parts$ only?   
 

Some people get enjoyment from the restoration of their rides.

Troy

Understood.   I know there's people like Jet that restored the 69 hemi and sold it when it was done... nothing wrong with that but I'm sure he didn't take a virtual loss on it etiher. 

There's lots of folks like that around that restore cars for fun and profit.   Good for them.    I  like to fix up cars so I can drive them 

I totally agree... But sometimes there's a bigger picture; like family, financial future or even better, you could probably have two or three Mopars for that one. All of which, could be done cars..........   

Troy

[lilwendal]

 I've been looking at charger pics all night and cannot find a pic of J1 with white interior. This car was a customer order car could this be the only one with this color combo and would that make this a 1 of 1?  Probably 1 of 1 with a hemi I'm sure. Does this increase the rareness of the car?  Maybe help overcome the car being gold? I've been looking over the other hemi charger project on Moparts for 55. It needs alot more sheetmetal work than this one but is more complete. Like so many have said, I could sell my car then negotiate a cash sale for the progect car and avoid the "virtual" cash loss.
As Techmopar stated,I could find a date correct block for this car to make it more correct and advise the purchaser that its datre correct but not the original motor.
Ugh. Now I'm really confused on what to do.

[firefighter3931]

The question that needs answered is whether or not a clone hemi car is worth significantly less than a non numbers matching original hemi car ? In my mind, there's not much difference. If the original motor came with the hemi car....then it might be something i would consider. Then again, numbers don't mean anything to me as previously stated and the only reason i would condiser the trade was if the car was going to be sold upon completion....and it had the original engine. 



Ron

[Ghoste]

Rare and valuable do not necessarily go together.  Many of the people who are paying stupid money for these cars are fad buyers who want whatever looks the coolest.  It's become all too much about opening the climate controlled display room (garage or shop seems so derogatory) and pointing out to your friends how much bigger your penis is than all the others.


(sorry, just having a little cynical moment, rant off)

[70charginglizard]

Is yours a cloned R/T hemi or an original r/t cloned to hemi it.

I would say if the only clone part of your car is the hemi part would swade me away from doing it. It's just a motor.

Just my opinion.

[Troy]

I think I told you my opinion at the Garlits show but I'll clarify. If I were buying a car to keep then I'd trade. It would still be a rough decision since I don't have any running cars and trading one as nice as yours would be difficult because I'd be off the road even longer. I should state that a real Hemi car means more to me than a regular car with a Hemi and I realize not everyone feels that way. With that being said, I drive my cars so tooling around in a real Hemi car isn't the smartest idea and I'd end up with two cars any way. From our conversation and statement you've made in the past I know you enjoy building the cars and sell them when finished to finance the next project. In this case you'll have no cash coming in on the last deal so the money you put into it will all be rolled into this next car. Building a real Hemi car correctly will cost more than the one you just built because you'll need more expensive (sometimes original) pieces. There are lot of small differences that need attention. As far as I know, the HP and Hemi cars in 68 did have the VIN (or at least a partial VIN) stamped on the block. It's the lower end cars that had no identification on the engine. If you're looking for an original block then the 68-69 date codes are going to be expensive (they made way more in 1966). In my opinion, the difference between a date-coded block and a new one isn't important since neither are original. However, I don't have the money to drop on the car either way so you need to find out what a person with that kind of money thinks. The color is strange but so are 2 of mine so it's nice to be unique *if you're showing the car* - not so much if you're trying to sell since you want the widest possible audience. I think it will hurt the final resale value if that's what you are after. Not many people dream of a gold and white Hemi Charger but you can't be too picky when Dodge only made 475 originally. I do have to point out that your car didn't sell for $80k (yet). In that case, would your opinion be any different if it sold for $60k? That's still a $20k profit to put into another car. I think your margin will be significantly smaller and your effort much higher on the real car - but it would be neat to say you owned a real one once.

Recap: from a financial standpoint it's a risk but from a car collector standpoint it's a dream.

Troy

[tan top]

if it were me , and the car checks out - all numbers / stampings etc , then yes i would , & and even if it was a non matching # car j  code  car  i would also- if it were the color combination i wanted ,

[ChargerSG]

I would have traded, after have checking all the numbers etc like hell...

[charge-it]

We met at Garlits and I saw your car. No way I would trade. Hemi car or not it`s the wrong color, no matching motor, etc. You very well end up upside down on this deal but that`s just my opinion. I saw the guy that wanted to trade, hope he doesn`t beat you when you back out...

[azraelck]

In a word; no. In a sentance; OH HELL NAW!.

NEVER trade a restored beauty straight up for a clunker; especially since it has no engine. Original HEMI car or not; no drivetrain, then no. I would consider it with some cash if the original car had it's original motor.

Now, if you truly enjoy the restoring part; I would trade with some cash. A good bit of cash; because that 426 Hemi under your hood is not cheap. In fact, I would just trade that engine for the car, and then you'd have two project Chargers. One which only requires you to drop a crate 572 in it.  But just because that other car is an original Hemi car, don't mean it's worth your restored car. It's not.

[gtx6970]

A couple things to consider.
Your car - original r/t or not ?  I already know everything else about it is wrong for a 68 , color, shifter, engine etc. It's a clone any way you look at it. It sounds like your into it for the restoration/ money part of it. Not necassarily for the ownership.

Other car- J-code it will always be - no argument there ever.Which ads value, always will.  Color is a setback and will hurt resale value to SOME but not all. Color would not stop me at all, Body style would though (I'm not a 68 charger fan). And as mentioned rarety does not always make it valuable/desireable.

To me your biggest obstacle  to consider is how long before the bubble busts (and it will ) and can you get it done before then.

Just my 

[Khyron]

I would have to agree with the masses here, no original Hemi. No trade.

[8WHEELER]

(I'm not a 68 charger fan).

Just my 

Ouch bud, that hurts............

My wife's 68 RT, JJ1 Gold Metallic, Peal White Top, Tan int. I like the color combo, I have had several but this one is a keeper.

This was before the resto, it is almost done. I bought it in 1982

Dan

[8WHEELER]

More

Dan

[hemi68charger]

Dang Dan !!!

That's one clean '68 !!!!!

Troy

[8WHEELER]

And a JJ1 Gold 68 Hemi, black top, he lives 10min away, nice car.

I myself, like the Pearl White top better, and you never see them.

Dan

[8WHEELER]

Dang Dan !!!

That's one clean '68 !!!!!

Troy

I think so    the damage you see to my wife's car was not done by her, one fender
was hit before I bought it. The other fender was hit by a fellow diesel mechanic at work
24yrs ago, while I was on a delivery of a track hoe in my KW. That car was her daily driver
for for 17yrs, it now has 108k on it, but like I said the resto is almost done, the bumper
chrome job was $600.00 each for show quality    man this hobby is getting expensive.

Dan

[lilwendal]

8WHEELER, Thanks for the pics. Thats a nice survivor you've got. That gold with the white top dont look too shabby at all on your wifes car.  The colors starting to grow on me a little.  Definetly needs the white top to brighten up the gold. Still trying to picture the white interior with it. The Ebay link you listed was C6E trim which is white and tan interior. The car I'm looking to swap is C6W white and black. There is such a dynamic contrast between the white and black interior together and how that flows with the gold exterior I just cant picture.

[hemi68charger]

And a JJ1 Gold 68 Hemi, black top, he lives 10min away, nice car.

I myself, like the Pearl White top better, and you never see them.

Dan

Dang... Mike, there you go !!! Some more Gold 'Hemi Chargers in the black you like....... Dan to the rescue....... Again, my opinion, do it.... I don't think the value without the original motor is all that important..  Yes, it would be nice to have it, but hell, these things are 30+ years old and some of the ones out there lost their original motor within the warranty period...  Maybe I'm jaded in that my '68 hemi Charger doesn't have the original motor, but in my eyes, it's still a j-code and unlike TA's, AAR's and M-codes comparatively speaking, those are everywhere.. '68 j-code hemi's aren't and you have one advantage, you can finish the paint and body YOURSELF, you have the skills... If I could only be so lucky....

Troy

[charge69]

Well, I guess I will add my 2 cents! The color combination will hurt you if you decide to sell and so will the non-original motor: however, the car is an original  hemicar and they just do not grow on trees! You are obviously good at body and paint and could do the remaining work on the car yourself thereby saving a ton of money that most of us would have to spend. Your current Charger is finished and very beautiful, but your intention all along was to sell it and get something else and an offer of $80K is a very good offer, but that is only if the other car is worth the $80K! How much work is left on the body? If it is not pretty much complete, I do not think it is worth $80K without the original motor.
Our opinions do not really mean squat as it is not our choice to make! If you feel it is a fair deal, and you should know yourself from restoring these beauties, then go for it and enjoy owning an original! If not, enjoy your beautiful Charger already in your hands and wait for the right one to come along!

[bull]

I wouldn't do it but unlike you I really don't enjoy the restoration process, and I'm not the type of guy who passes out when I see a Hemi car. Rare cars a great but I'd rather be able to drive and enjoy a car instead of letting it sit because I'm worried about throwing a rod in a $13k engine.

[hemi68charger]

I wouldn't do it but unlike you I really don't enjoy the restoration process, and I'm not the type of guy who passes out when I see a Hemi car. Rare cars a great but I'd rather be able to drive and enjoy a car instead of letting it sit because I'm worried about throwing a rod in a $13k engine.

Naaaaaaaaaaa,, who's worried?   

[charge69]

I'M NOT WORRIED!!    I will  :yesnod:drive mine!!

[bull]

I wouldn't do it but unlike you I really don't enjoy the restoration process, and I'm not the type of guy who passes out when I see a Hemi car. Rare cars a great but I'd rather be able to drive and enjoy a car instead of letting it sit because I'm worried about throwing a rod in a $13k engine.

Naaaaaaaaaaa,, who's worried?   

People who barely have enough money to rebuild a 383, aka me.

[sharpspike]

not a hemi. ( 383 4 speed ) but whats wrong with gold. 

[charge69]

What's wrong with gold?  Absolutely Nothing!!  Beautiful Charger you have!  I had a friend who bought a '69 Gold Charger, White vinyl top, white interior in 1971 and I thought it was gorgeous!  His was a 383/auto that was immaculate and we loved that car!
I just think it is not the preferred color for the Hemi Crowd. These people are looking for more visual "pop" for their ultimate muscle car!  I've never seen a real Hemicar in any body style in person that was gold. Obviously, they are out there, but got to be pretty rare!

[hemi68charger]

I wouldn't do it but unlike you I really don't enjoy the restoration process, and I'm not the type of guy who passes out when I see a Hemi car. Rare cars a great but I'd rather be able to drive and enjoy a car instead of letting it sit because I'm worried about throwing a rod in a $13k engine.

Naaaaaaaaaaa,, who's worried?   

People who barely have enough money to rebuild a 383, aka me.

If ya think I'm one of those "other" people......     I'm definitely not....... I'm probably more like you than the others... I'm just more of a "risk-taker" I guess......

[lilwendal]

Alright. I've reposted the car on Ebay and it will also be at the Turkey runs's car corral at Daytona this weekend.  If it doesn't sell than I'll do the trade.  I do believe I could do better with cash than a trade. Other hemi project cars run around 50 without the original motor. I've found two others I'm considering.  Road Runner hemi projects can be found in the low 30s.  But then It wouldnt be a charger would it. Why waste time restoring anything else?  And the saga continues

[WheresMyCharger]

My first Charger was a Gold 69 SE with black vinyl top. Bought right after high school. Was also the school colors. coincidence 

[FastbackJon]

Gold is cool, you don't see it that much, well at least I don't.

[chargerkid]

It's definitely a cool car!  I can't believe Matt's trading you.  It should be an easy fix for you since you have the know how in restoration.  I know he wanted to get that gold hemi car done.  I saw it leave Sunday on the trailer down to you.  You got a sweet deal there!

[charge-it]

I see you ended your auction. Well...how about some pics of your new HEMI Charger!

[84shelby]

           lilwendel    How did things go at the Turkey run....??     


            8wheeler   gold white & tan  great combo!   Looks awesome.

[Charger-Bodie]

here is a pic of one i used to have its jj1 but no vinyl done right gold can be real sharp on a charger

[charge-it]

BTTT

[69fuchs]

Hemi cars are worth more in dollars.  If your clone is totalled or stolen, you will lose money.  Try to get a clone insured for what it costs to restore it....good luck!!!

If you love your clone more than money, or can afford to take the hit, a clone is much more fun.  You can even paint a 68 purple when it is a clone.  Try that with a real hemi car and you will be crucified.

I love my hemi car-it is real, it needs to be restored, and I drive it like it was meant to be driven.  It ran its best ET ever at the drag strip this fall--12.82@106mph.   God forbid something happens to it, at least my financial investment is safe.

[472 R/T SE]

69fuchs, right-on.  Your ride is sweet!
Are you runnin' slicks?  Is your frame tied?  I imagine the folks at the track appreciate you bringin' it out. 
I had several people asking if mine was real?  I told them to, "touch it, does it feel real". 

[Joshua]

I'd probably keep the clone..........even though I'm not a big fan of clones. The great thing about 'em though is that you can BEAT on 'em and have ALOT of fun.
MOST guys are afraid to REALLY drive a legit HEMI car. Sure, they'll PUTT 'em to a show, but to drive it a LONG distance, DESPITE the weather.......rarely....

[69fuchs]

69fuchs, right-on.  Your ride is sweet!
Are you runnin' slicks?  Is your frame tied?  I imagine the folks at the track appreciate you bringin' it out. 
I had several people asking if mine was real?  I told them to, "touch it, does it feel real". 

Thanks!  The car is completely stock except for the tires/wheels.  The tires are hoosier quick time pro's-DOT legal. 

I am doing a 70 charger r/t clone, and the only difference between that car and a real one will be the VIN numbers.

[bullit68]

69fuchs,nice charger.a 68 hemi charger is my favourite.needs resto?nah!its perfect like it is,you can drive it,race it,and not worry about putting a scratch in the paint.i currently drive a 68 charger rt hemi 4 spd clone.its a lot of fun too.i have a 69 hemi 4spd charger and a 66 hemi auto charger that both need resto.i'm going to do them as nice drivers.btw is your 68 a auto or 4spd?original engine?other details like options?