Serious Stroker Question

[i c e b l u e]

Recently, I have been seriously looking into a rotating stroker kit for my 440. (especially with my new job at westech) I plan to go with a 510 cubic inch kit that uses a 4.25" stroke with the chevy 2.20" journals, so that I can use a 7.1" rod and .990" pin. (this is to both minimize clearencing, and keep rod/stroke ratio at 1.67(close to 1.75)) However, since I am only 19 years old and I have a budget, i am trying to weigh out all of my options. I prefer to use quality brand name parts when possible, which leads me to this question. 440source is by far the cheapest stroker kit I have yet to find at $1300 plus $200 for rings and bearings. I have heard nothing but good things about their products and service. There is another kit currently on an ebay store with the same available options(as far as stroke and rod length) with Eagle parts and srp pistons complete with bearing and rings for $1800. So is it worth the extra 300$(a weeks worth of pay for me) for Eagle products. Has anyone compared the quality between the two? I also know that eagle has a 3 year guarantee from manufacturing defects. Any help is much appreciated; I want to make the right decision THE FIRST TIME!

thanks in advance, Marcus

the link to the ebay Eagle stroker kit is below

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-440-499-505-520ci-EAGLE-CRANK-RODS-PISTONS-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33620QQihZ013QQitemZ230045503784

[daytonalo]

if your having trouble spending all that money , you can send some my way ! My buddy used 440-source for two 472 hemis and I'm also putting together a 472 hemi as we speak , with 440 source parts .

[Chryco Psycho]

Having talked with 440 Source in person & held the parts in my hands I see no reason to go elsewhere , good products at a decent price , the Only thing I will not buy from them is their roller rocker arms

[mally69]

I would go with 440 source
plus  brandon is also alot of help if you have any questions never heard anything bad about them other than the rockers which were already mentioned

[i c e b l u e]

thanks for the responses, I will be going with the 440 source kit about mid winter, and I will keep everyone updated. After looking at there site again I have one last question? what bearings do you recomend for street use. Meaning they will have to last 10,000 plus miles? The reason I ask, is that they offer upgrades for bearings as follows

Upgrade to Clevite "H" series champhered rod bearings (add to above): $59
Add Clevite's "TRI ARMOR" moly graphite coating to the above upgraded rod bearings: $64
Upgrade to Clevite "V" series champhered main bearings (add to above): $28

which would be the best choice? and most cost effective?

[Chryco Psycho]

I use the Michigan /Clevite 77
Chamfered brgs could help in high radius crank so ask what the crank has for a radius

[duo-stripe]

I had my 440 Magnum engine ( 1969 engine ) stroked to a 496 with a 440-Source strokerkit. No problems at all.
I had all the internals balanced and weight-checked. Have driven it the last year and I didn't have any problems.
It was a very economical kit; very good price-value.

Good luck,
Marcel

[Challenger340]

Without getting too technical here, I'll try and add some relevance to the bearing questions;

"V' series designation bearings, are the old "Vandervell" bearing type tri-metal configuration, which was bought out by Clevitte way back when.  V's are a good bet for the mains when severe duties/operating conditions are expected, example; (but not limited to), severe detonation, poor housing bore deflection(capwalk), etc., etc. They offer good embedability(softer), and as a result superior conformability.
They are preferred by many high horsepower builders, for many reasons, albeit, I dunno what your maintenance/teardown & inspection schedules are going to be ?  Stock Block ?

"H" designation bearings are low taper eccentricity, which means, more uniform bearing thickness from the centre, out to the parting lines of the halfs.
All engine bearings are thicker in the middle than at the parting lines. Different bearing clearance vertically, from out, closer to the parting lines, different applications, think about a "gerotor" pump, reservoir, or film forming bank. Also, remember rod fastener "stretch", and the resulting "pinch" across the rod bores.
"H' series are thicker at the parting lines than their "P" designation part number brethren. Different operating conditions, different features on oil control and clearances.

"tri-armor" or, moly-graphite/teflon coated bearings, are just that, "coated". Best not get into them here, unless we were a machining/blueprinting forum, too many issues and factors affecting their use.

Long story short, "talk to your builder/machinist", get his preferences.

My personal preference; "V" for the mains(chamfered), "H" for the aftermarket rods/capscrew bolts, skip the coatings. However, if you go with the above, go to a reputable BLUEPRINT type machine shop in your area.
If you do, don't be surprised if they wish to regrind the "new" crank to their specifications, using the above choices.  I usually have to regrind about 40% of the 440 source cranks, depending on the power level they are being used for.  

I'm NOT knocking 440source ! They sell good stuff ! I've used them @ 900 hp level, on "carbed only" engines with fine results !
It's just that their Cranks have less consistency, sometimes, on the Grind, than a CALLIES Crank, or a BRYANT Crank, which I can ALWAYS use "outa the box", for ANY power level !

Good luck, outa be a fine Mill !  What heads you feeding the monster with ?

[daytonalo]

 

[andyf]

Take the crank to the machine shop BEFORE you buy the bearings.

[i c e b l u e]

Take the crank to the machine shop BEFORE you buy the bearings.

I work at the machine shop and I will be doing all of the work. My question was more based on is it perfered to have chamfered bearings on a street engine. I plan on buying the kit with the rings and bearings included and I was wondering if I should upgrade to chamfered bearrings? I will check all products thouroughly upon arrival

[dkn1997]

I don't know about all of the parts in the kit that you are considering, but I do run SRP's in my 440 with stock displacement and stock LY reconditioned rods and it revs to the moon.  my old man said it rev'd like a small block.  maybe..maybe not, but my experience has been good so far (about 6 years so far and still going strong.)

[Challenger340]

Take the crank to the machine shop BEFORE you buy the bearings.

I work at the machine shop and I will be doing all of the work. My question was more based on is it perfered to have chamfered bearings on a street engine. I plan on buying the kit with the rings and bearings included and I was wondering if I should upgrade to chamfered bearrings? I will check all products thouroughly upon arrival

The chamfer on the bearings, is to provide a relief for the "Fillet" on the aftermarket crank cheek, where it meets the journal. Sometimes it's required, sometimes NOT, depending upon the original block casting and main spacing.

I don't understand your concern with the chamfered bearing for street use ?  It is because you don't like the "V" designation/construction/material type of tri-metal,  chamfered bearings are offered in ?

You'd may be chamfering, the "un-chamfered" bearings anyway, even the Clevitte "regular" 77  "p" tri-metals, if relief is required, during mock up for crank endplay.


It's really personal, "HOT ROD" engine builder preference/experience, as per application, and intended useage, when selecting bearings. You work at a machine shop, so For Example;

You've probably SEEN that some guys like an undercut crank & lotsa brg crush on 4340 W/capscrew rods, with .0028-.0030 clrc. on a "H" bearing, compared to 1053 rod & ARP bolt, where some prefer .0023-.0025" and an "P" bearing on mid range sizing. (expansion/rpm stretch/bore distortion @ temp)

Personally, I have NO problems using a "V" chamfered bearing for the street, but, I'll machine it "where I want it " for THAT useage. I'd probably stay lowside on the Block mainline, and grind the crank mains .0005" below low, if it was straight enough "end to end", "outa the box" new.
But I do that alot for  "H" bearings sometimes too.

I'm NOT trying to confuse the issue, just relating what I'd do, my own opinions only.
"V" chamfered bearing, TIGHT on the mainline, undercut the Crank .0005", target .0030-.0032" vertical clrc., for the street, minmum 60 % contact, 70% better if you have to stay @ .0028-.0030" vertical, 70 F.

NO WARS WANTED, just my opinion.

PS; Do you have access to "live" actual bearing gauges ? NOT the kind that "gouge up" the bearing ?

[i c e b l u e]

challenger 340

Sorry I didn't respond earlier I have been a little tied up the past few days with school. I appreciate your advise and i too am not trying to discredit or insult anyone. I am not sure what kit of bearing gauge our shop uses. However, I will ask tomorrow at work. What exactly is a bearing gauge and how does it work. Based on the name I would assume that it measures the crush of the bearing when installed. Also what is the diference between a "live" and standard bearing gauge. I assmume from your previous description it has to do with the marring of the bearing. Once again thank you for your advise, I am trying to learn as much as possible before I start this porject. I don't plan to do anything untill I have saved up enough money, which should be right around mid-winter.

Just for some background knowledge I have only been working at Westech for about two months now. I have already learned a lot and look forward to learning much more. That being said, the shop has been around for over 25 years and has done many stroker engines of all makes. Although, Norm seems to favor the mopar group. I plan on asking and checking everything with the shop before I do anything. I am however trying to prepare myself so I know what questions to ask.

As for the engine

stock 440 block

906 heads w/ 1.81,1.78 vlaves, hardened exhaust seats, iron guids, manley valves(I will be working with a proffesional porter to fully port the heads. He can get 270cfm through the intakes and 210 out the exhaust. They will be flowed and reworked until I achive these #'s)

tti 1 and 7/8 headers to a 2.5" exhaust w/ x pipe

stock dual plane intake that I will modify (Port match with some plenum work)

750 speed demon w/ vacume secondaries

mp electronic ignition w/ chrome box

rebuilt 727 tranny w/ precision street converter aprox 2300-2500 stall

3.55 suregrip w/ 295/50/15's hight is 26.5"

I took it to the strip once this past summer and ran 13.5's on all three runs, I hope to hit low 12's to high 11's

[Steve P.]

What color is your Charger? Is it the correct color?  I love it....

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Steve P

Thanks, it is factory B3 (ice blue metallic) color and yes it is the original color for the car. When I bought the car it had a cheap repaint on it and was debating whether to paint it the original color or go to a b5. So I went to my local paint shop and had them mix up a pint to test on the front valance. After seeing the actual color the decision was made.

Challenger340

the bearing gauge that we use at the shop is made by sunnen. It measures to the .0001" and the ends of the guage that touch the bearings are round balls that spin. I do not know if this is a "live" guage, but it is designed fo bearings and bores, I have also now used the gauge and have not created any gouges.

[Challenger340]

Yeah, that'll do, do you mean the AG300 gauge on the Rod machine ? Crude, but it'll work. The balls will still scratch, but not too hard.

By "live" gauge, I mean like a dial bore gauge, with "slippers" on the gauge ends, to NOT mark the bearing. Also, get some actual "bearing micrometers", for measuring bearing consistency.