tags on ebay

[topduarte]

I bidded $550 and that was it for me.

[Chris G.]

plans for the tags are more along the lines of what the first guy thought, frame'em and get'em on display with Claudia when shes finished (april?)

Any plans to send Registry people pictures of the tags, or no?

[Pistolpete]

Oh and before the questions start to come.....

1) I will try and reunite lost tags with there respective owners (yes for a fee and yes I will have to figure out a way for people to 100% prove they own that car)
2) nobody will be cloning any of these cars
3) I'm going on holidays starting tomorrow for a week so if this thread keeps goiing and I'm not repsonding thats why.
4) As far as why I bought them, ..............I wanted them.

[Dodge Don]

At least they are in safe hands. But I still think you're loco......but then again it looks like you might be a goalie which would explain everything.  .......that and the fact you have a 69 cheese grater (see how I bridged back to annoying Chris  )

All is well, nothing to see here, move along 


BTW Mike....we need to get together for a few beers soon.

[Pistolpete]

Beers?.......Toronto area?............I'm in!!

[Shakey]

At least they are in safe hands. But I still think you're loco......but then again it looks like you might be a goalie which would explain everything.  .......that and the fact you have a 69 cheese grater (see how I bridged back to annoying Chris  )

All is well, nothing to see here, move along 


BTW Mike....we need to get together for a few beers soon.

All is well, nothing to see here, move along

This is supposed to be said with a thick Irish accent!

BTW Mike....we need to get together for a few beers soon

I have been thinking about that also.  We are overdue.  I was gonna suggest this Friday night but I am taking Friday off to go out to the farm and get some work done on the car and will not be back until Saturday.  Maybe next Friday?      

[Alaskan_TA]

I am just going to toss this out there as general information just in case any of the parties invloved are not aware of the laws.

Being in possesion of a VIN tag that is not attached to the body of the original car is a federal crime.

Buying and / or selling VIN tags is also a federal crime.

Buying, selling or collecting fender tags is legal as long as the tags are not stolen or find their way onto another car with intent to defraud.

So, that said, as a historian I am glad the fender tags and the data they contain are safe. The VIN tags though, if you in fact receive them should be mutilated ASAP in case someone in a uniform comes knocking on your door. Cut them in two with tin snips, that works good. 

Proving innocence, especially if your intentions are good with intact VIN tags in hand is very difficult to do.  Just my 2 cents....................

Barry Washington

[twilt]

Darn, all those fender tags getting wasted on a wall collage when they could be used to help re-invent some actual cars.   

[Dodge Don]

At least they are in safe hands. But I still think you're loco......but then again it looks like you might be a goalie which would explain everything.  .......that and the fact you have a 69 cheese grater (see how I bridged back to annoying Chris  )

All is well, nothing to see here, move along 


BTW Mike....we need to get together for a few beers soon.

All is well, nothing to see here, move along

This is supposed to be said with a thick Irish accent!

BTW Mike....we need to get together for a few beers soon

I have been thinking about that also.  We are overdue.  I was gonna suggest this Friday night but I am taking Friday off to go out to the farm and get some work done on the car and will not be back until Saturday.  Maybe next Friday?         

Maybe next Friday, I'll see if Nick (7TRT) wants to join us.

[Shakey]

I am just going to toss this out there as general information just in case any of the parties invloved are not aware of the laws.

Being in possesion of a VIN tag that is not attached to the body of the original car is a federal crime.

Buying and / or selling VIN tags is also a federal crime.

Buying, selling or collecting fender tags is legal as long as the tags are not stolen or find their way onto another car with intent to defraud.

So, that said, as a historian I am glad the fender tags and the data they contain are safe. The VIN tags though, if you in fact receive them should be mutilated ASAP in case someone in a uniform comes knocking on your door. Cut them in two with tin snips, that works good. 

Proving innocence, especially if your intentions are good with intact VIN tags in hand is very difficult to do.  Just my 2 cents....................

Barry Washington

Hi Barry,

Do you personaly know of anyone who was arrested and convicted of any of these types of crimes?

[Ghoste]

Certainly not many of the collector car recreators getting world record prices at auctions. 

[Alaskan_TA]

Hi Barry, Do you personaly know of anyone who was arrested and convicted of any of these types of crimes?

Nope. I do not hang out with those kinds of people. 

I know a detective that specilizes in VIN fraud. I had two seperate people send me dash VINs for E-bodies that came off of dash pads for other cars, so I asked him what the laws were concerning possession. He told me, and I sent him before and after photos of the tags so that he knew they were destroyed, I cut them both in two.

Barry

[Alaskan_TA]

18 USCS § 2321 (2003)

§ 2321. Trafficking in certain motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts

(a) Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

107 A.L.R.5th 567

SUMMARY: Illegally removing or altering a vehicle identification number (VIN) or selling or possessing a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN constitutes a crime in most states. In order to impose liability, state courts normally require a culpable mental state on the part of the defendant in altering or removing a VIN or in possessing a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN. Some states, however, do not require any culpable mental state on the part of the defendant when selling a vehicle or vehicle part with a removed or altered VIN.

[Old Moparz]

18 USCS § 2321 (2003)

§ 2321. Trafficking in certain motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts

(a) Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

107 A.L.R.5th 567

SUMMARY: Illegally removing or altering a vehicle identification number (VIN) or selling or possessing a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN constitutes a crime in most states. In order to impose liability, state courts normally require a culpable mental state on the part of the defendant in altering or removing a VIN or in possessing a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN. Some states, however, do not require any culpable mental state on the part of the defendant when selling a vehicle or vehicle part with a removed or altered VIN.

This is good to see posted. There are a handful of people who will still interperate this their own way, & say there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting a Hemi VIN tag from a rusted POS onto a 318 car & say it was only a large patch panel.   

[Ghoste]

Unlawful or not, with the money involved now there's no way it's going to stop.  It'd make for an awesome episode of the Barrett-Jackson Smoke and Mirrors Circus to have the FBI show and lay charges on live national television wouldn't it?

[FastbackJon]

And what's interesting is that these laws work against you as well. Such as if you buy a car and find out later it doesn't have the correct VIN, then it is near impossible to get the original build records from Chrysler historical. They won't sell you the correct build record that goes with the body codes, but they will sell you the incorrect build record that goes with the incorrect VIN tag on the car. The law is working against you if you want to take something that someone else swapped and to try and put it back as to how it came from the factory.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Great news that a member got the tags.   The prev owner gave me the VIN #'s of the 10 supposed 69 tags he had. 
Pete when you get them pics of the tags (69's for me & '70's for my bud Chris at the 70 Registry) would be greatly appreciated

Hopefully we can reunite a few of the tags! 

[FastbackJon]

I'd like any info from the '66/'67 tags as well for the '66/'67 Registry. Only problem is that '66/'67 tags don't have the VIN on them.

[Drache]

Also read that law carefully... if you get a parts car without a VIN tag, you can be held responsible for it...

Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

If you buy or recieve a car without a VIN plate and thus cut the car up for parts for your project that is against the law.

[resq302]

ok, I had something similar along the lines when I owned a 85 Jeep CJ7.  The VIN tag was on the windshied attached to a metal plate that was held in by the screws that held the wiper motor to the windshield frame.  The tub of the jeep was badly rotted and I got a new body from Willy's Overland for it.  No VIN stamping on tub anywhere where as the old one had a VIN decal on the inside of the body that was faded beyond ligible recognition.  When I restored my jeep to roadworthy conditions, I had to remove the metal plate that contained the VIN as I had to remove the wiper motor.  Now would this fall under that law?  As I kept the VIN with the car but had to remove it from the vehicle for body work purposes.  The car is still a Jeep. 

This also brings up a good point about if your vehicle is in an accident and they need to replace the frame.  Technically, your frame (if you have a truck or SUV0 now has your VIN on it as well.  When they replace your frame, does that make you fall under this law?  If you get into an accident and your dash gets crumpled or your dash rots away from a water leak in the area of the VIN, does this mean that you can not repair the car cause you will have to cut out the area around the VIN?  Also, now a days , the VIN is sometimes printed on an alluminum plate.  What is to say that years down the road, that the paint or printing on the tag is not going to flake off?

They must have some type of clause or exceptions in that law to take this into consideration.  But I do totally agree that if you do build a clone and pass it off as something else with VIN swapping is certainly wrong and Illegal!

[Troy]

Yes, there are provisions for removing/handling body stampings and VINS. Usually they require and inspection and/or an officer's presence. I think the procedure varies by State (yeah, don't forget it's a crime in all 50 states in case the Feds aren't chasing you down).

Troy

[Ghoste]

Only problem is that '66/'67 tags don't have the VIN on them.

Nor do 1968 ones.

[Charger_Fan]

Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

If you buy or recieve a car without a VIN plate and thus cut the car up for parts for your project that is against the law.

Hmmm...I have one of those.

Notice the handy way the VIN tag was removed.



The price was really good at the time & I actually had money to buy it, so I went for it. The only problem is that now I don't want to cut it up because it's actually cleaner than a lot of cars that people are restoring. I do have the door sticker though, with the VIN number, but that's it.
Sort of a rock & hard spot scenario.

[resq302]

Yes, there are provisions for removing/handling body stampings and VINS. Usually they require and inspection and/or an officer's presence. I think the procedure varies by State (yeah, don't forget it's a crime in all 50 states in case the Feds aren't chasing you down).

Troy

Well, its not like I removed the actual tag from the metal plate it was on but if you unbolted the wiper motor and removed the motor, the piece of metal that the VIN was on would come off from the windshield.

PS- If the feds ask, you've never seen or heard of me.  shhhhhh   lol   

[Alaskan_TA]

Charger Fan,
Check with your local authorities, you may be able to get a state assigned VIN number for it.

Barry