GM's next bomb will be hydrogen

[bull]

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4023502  Another fly-by-night flash-in-the-pan or will it stick? Looks like they're getting mid-'70s horsepower numbers so they probably won't be dragging horse trailers with it.

First Drive:
GM's Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Pickup

By Larry E. Hall 

GM says the fuel-cell Silverado "accelerates in a similar fashion to a production truck, despite weighing in at 7,500 pounds."  

Three hydrogen storage tanks are tucked between the frame rails, protected by steel skidplates. 

The Silverado fuel-cell truck has "joined" the U.S. Army for a 16-month tour of duty.

Power on the fuel-cell truck comes from two 94 kW fuel-cell stacks—GM calls them "power modules"—producing a combined 164 horsepower and 317 lb-ft of torque. 


During a presentation at General Motors' Fuel Cell Activities Center in Honeoye Falls, N.Y., a quiet village on the outskirts of Rochester, the world's first hydrogen fuel-cell pickup was inducted into the U.S. Army for a 16-month tour of duty.
Boot camp for the modified three-quarter-ton Silverado Crew Cab takes place at an Army base in Ft. Belvoir, Va., outside of Washington, D.C. While the large white single star on both front doors suggests the pickup will be toting a brigadier general around the fort, the duty assignment is far less glamorous—the non-tactical chore of delivering packages.

Hydrogen, the Army's Future Fuel?
The Army has a high level of interest in hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles for two reasons. First, it seems that the same problems which off-roaders face—getting as far as possible into the woods on a tank of fuel—cause issues for the military. Second, the military has a mandated task to reduce petroleum-based fuel consumption by 75 percent and reduce harmful emissions of heavy-duty commercial trucks and buses on bases—a major undertaking considering the Army itself has a fleet of over 246,000 non-tactical vehicles and drives 823 million miles annually.

GM's new fuel-cell truck aims at being the solution to both problems. Hydrogen vehicles are powered by a chemical reaction that combines oxygen and hydrogen to produce electricity that powers electric motors. A fuel cell emits water and heat, nothing more.

With a large assembled media group at the Fuel Cell Center, test drives of the pickup were limited to about ten minutes. So we asked about the possibility of an extended drive after the truck was delivered to Ft. Belvoir. A week later, GM replied they would work through Army channels for their okay. After all, the pickup was leased to the Army and it cost several hundred thousand dollars. After two months of waiting, an MSN Autos exclusive test drive was granted.

The Term "Engine Bay" Doesn't Apply
The all-wheel-drive truck uses the Chevrolet Silverado's production frame and bodywork. Motivation comes from two 94 kW fuel-cell stacks—GM calls them "power modules"—producing a combined 164 horsepower and 317 lb-ft of torque. That's close to the motor torque of 335 generated by GM's 5.3-liter V8 engine. Each module directs electricity to an electric motor, one to drive the front wheels and one for the rear wheels. The truck can operate with just one module and motor. Raise the hood, and the term "engine bay" is immediately discarded. Packed tightly between the fender wells are the drivetrain's cooling radiators, high voltage electrical components and electronic management systems. Under the hood, the only thing common with a conventionally powered pickup is a 12-volt battery that operates the standard auxiliary systems. (Twenty years from now, hot-rodders will have to find something other than chrome valve covers and stainless steel exhaust headers to impress their friends.)

Underneath, the two fuel-cell power modules and three hydrogen storage tanks are tucked between the frame rails, protected by steel skidplates. The truck's standard independent front suspension remains unchanged, while in the rear the live rear axle setup has been replaced by a brawny independent suspension that makes space for the second electric drive mechanism.

The pickup is equipped with a bonus: GM's Quadrasteer four-wheel-steering system. In low-speed driving, the rear wheels steer opposite the front wheels, enabling the big truck to gracefully pull into a tight parking spot as easily as a compact car. At highway speeds, the rear wheels turn in the same direction as the front wheels, providing more stability while changing lanes or passing

A Bit of Luxury
Since the pickup was pulled off the Silverado production line for its fuel-cell conversion, Army personnel assigned to the duty of driving it are surely envied by their buddies. This Crew Cab is like a luxury sedan with a pickup bed, compared to the Army's standard, stripped-down everyday work truck. Great seats combine with the smooth suspension to make this an extremely comfortable vehicle for both driver and passengers. There's stretch-out room up front. Even with the front seats all the way back, tall passengers have space between their knees and the seat backs. A minimal floor hump means large personnel can fit comfortably in the rear middle position. When middle seating isn't in use, there's an extra-wide folding armrest with two cupholders. An oversize rear window plus excellent mirrors make visibility great.

Turn On the Air Conditioner
Weather on test-drive day was blistering hot and to make matters less bearable, stiflingly humid, which is not unusual in and around D.C. in the summer. Surprisingly, the truck's air conditioning system had never been tested under real-world driving conditions, and it was suggested that this would be an excellent opportunity to try it out. I couldn't have agreed more, since at 10:30 a.m. the thermometer was already nipping 90 degrees.

To get things up and running, this pickup is turned on, not started like the conventional Silverado. There is a few seconds' wait for the electrochemical reaction to get started as the fickle hydrogen is split into protons and electrons that zip through fuel-cell membranes. When the computer screen readouts indicate that both power modules are creating electricity to power the motors, put a foot on the brake pedal, push the button "D" for drive, and you're off.

[SirNik73]

Well from my personal point of view, in 20 years if there is only Alternative fuel powered Vehicles allowed on the reads, I'd rather have a chrome valve covered, stainless steel exhaust equipped Diesel running on corn oil instead of that!

But if they were to only allow Alternative fuel powered Vehicles on the roads, I think I might be spending my time in Mexico, driving the Charger!

[41husk]

Not if we build a wall around the border, The mexicans will have all the fruits and vegetables, well kept yards and be driving Chargers.  We will have no gardens shabby lawns and hydrogen powered scion looking cars.

[RD]

i think that truck is a great step forward in many regards.  cannot wait to see the development of this new technology in years to come.

[defiance]

First gasoline car (excluding prototypes) = not sure, but think just before turn of the century - the 19th-20th, not this recent one.
First fuel-celled car (besides prototypes) = this sort of thing.

Sure, it's got a long way to go.  So did 1890's cars.

[dkn1997]

I will say it again, where does this hydrogen come from?  how much electricity does it take to make the hydrogen?  Let's have a real world estimate of that before we all start piecing together hydrogen retrofit kits for our muscle cars.

I really hope it is as great as they say, but if it takes a ton of electricity to make the hydrogen, then what's the use?

[Vainglory, Esq.]

I will say it again, where does this hydrogen come from?  how much electricity does it take to make the hydrogen?  Let's have a real world estimate of that before we all start piecing together hydrogen retrofit kits for our muscle cars.

I really hope it is as great as they say, but if it takes a ton of electricity to make the hydrogen, then what's the use?

Yeah, right now that's a big issue.  However, someone has just found out a way to have a biological agent (bacteria) separate hydrogen from water organically.  This has definitely got a future.

[Silver R/T]

its about time we stop relying on gasoline and find alternative fuels

[bull]

i think that truck is a great step forward in many regards. 

I agree it's a step forward, I just think it's all happening 20 years later than it should.

[defiance]

I will say it again, where does this hydrogen come from?  how much electricity does it take to make the hydrogen?  Let's have a real world estimate of that before we all start piecing together hydrogen retrofit kits for our muscle cars.

I really hope it is as great as they say, but if it takes a ton of electricity to make the hydrogen, then what's the use?

Well, it does right now, but as has been mentioned earlier, there's much that can be improved there...  *however* - even if it takes a lot of electricity, that still gives us LOTS more flexibility than our current situation.  We've got many sources of electricity that aren't reliant on outside influences.  So, even if it's not a perfect solution, it still provides a resolution to some major issues.

[dkn1997]

I am hoping for good things.  I want hydrogen/biodiesel/e85 to work.  I just hate that we never get an honest assessment of any of this  from anyone in authority because they ALL have an agenda.

Everytime I hear somone totally poo poo alternative fuels I cannot help thinking that they have some ties to big oil.

When I hear people jumping on the bandwagon of the latest and greatest thing, I cannot help thinking that maybe they stand to profit from it.  Maybe these E85 proponents have part ownership in the company who makes the retrofit parts required for older cars...maybe the hydrogen guys have friends in high places at the companies that manufacture the fuel cells. 

If it was up to me, I would concentrate on coming up with alternative ways to heat/power our homes also.  I never hear anyone say anything about that.  The focus seems to be on making the existing technology more efficient.  you don't hear of too much new stuff going on there.  How about a furnace that runs on biodiesel?  seems pretty easy to me considering that I know some boat guys who illegally fuel up with home heating oil for their diesels because it's way cheaper than the pump.  not saying they are not hurting their motors, but the fact that they even run tells me that there enough similarities to make biodiesel work in a furnace/oil burner.

And another thing....I think we need to start using our strengths when developing these new energy sources.  We have the most farmland in the world.  We pay people not to grow shit.  why not focus on the bio based fuels?  E85, biodiesel, etc...  We can grow enough to satisfy demand and still feed the world

[bull]

Everytime I hear somone totally poo poo alternative fuels I cannot help thinking that they have some ties to big oil.

When I hear people jumping on the bandwagon of the latest and greatest thing, I cannot help thinking that maybe they stand to profit from it.  Maybe these E85 proponents have part ownership in the company who makes the retrofit parts required for older cars...maybe the hydrogen guys have friends in high places at the companies that manufacture the fuel cells. 

I think much of this alternative fuel speculation by the car companies amounts to little more than advertising. It's mostly a "hey, look at us and please print our press release" exercise.

[Lightning]

now if only we could figure out how to get our cars to run on pure oxygen....

[defiance]

No, better: nitrogen!  W00t!

[dkn1997]

nitrous!!  we will eliminate our petroleum dependence.......very fast.....

[Mike DC]

 
GM is really thinking long-term here:
 
Instead of buring fossil fuels in our cars, we can start buring fossil fuels to make the hydrogen we burn in our cars. 

 

[defiance]

 
GM is really thinking long-term here:
 
Instead of buring fossil fuels in our cars, we can start:
- buring fossil fuels  *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated hydroelectric power *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated nuclear power *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated wind power *OR*
- utilizing existing US *ANY MEANS OF PRODUCING ELECTRICITY* power *OR*
- utilizing any future determined means of producing electricity *OR*
- utilizing future direct hydrogen production from solar or nuclear sources

to make the hydrogen we burn in our cars. 

 

Fixed that for ya

Hydrogen production is relatively easy.  The production of hydrogen NEVER results in the amount of potential energy as was used to product it, BUT this is outweighed when non-portable, infinitely renewable, LOCAL energy sources are used to produce them.  Electricity from nuclear power plants, hydroelectric plants, and even dedicated solar hydrogen plants are VERY feasible and rely on NO foreign resources.  Furthermore, there are theoretical means of much more direct production of hydrogen thorugh nuclear or solar means (in other words instead of using nuclear or solar energy to create electricity which is then used to extract hydrogen, there are means of extracting hydrogen directly using solar or nuclear).  The development of these technologies could lead to even more efficient hydrogen production.

The bottom line is that this is a VERY viable and indefinitely sustainable means of escaping from this trap of foreign dependence we've found ourselves in.

[defiance]

 
GM is really thinking long-term here:
 
Instead of buring fossil fuels in our cars, we can start:
- buring fossil fuels  *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated hydroelectric power *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated nuclear power *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated wind power *OR*
- utilizing existing US *ANY MEANS OF PRODUCING ELECTRICITY* power *OR*
- utilizing any future determined means of producing electricity *OR*
- utilizing future direct hydrogen production from solar or nuclear sources

to make the hydrogen we burn in our cars. 

 

Fixed that for ya

Hydrogen production is relatively easy.  The production of hydrogen NEVER results in the amount of potential energy as was used to produce it, BUT this is outweighed when non-portable, infinitely renewable, LOCAL energy sources are used to produce them.  Electricity from nuclear power plants, hydroelectric plants, and even dedicated solar hydrogen plants are VERY feasible and rely on NO foreign resources.  Furthermore, there are theoretical means of much more direct production of hydrogen thorugh nuclear or solar means (in other words instead of using nuclear or solar energy to create electricity which is then used to extract hydrogen, there are means of extracting hydrogen directly using solar or nuclear).  The development of these technologies could lead to even more efficient hydrogen production.

The bottom line is that this is a VERY viable and indefinitely sustainable means of escaping from this trap of foreign dependence we've found ourselves in.

[bull]

 
GM is really thinking long-term here:
 
Instead of buring fossil fuels in our cars, we can start:
- buring fossil fuels  *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated hydroelectric power *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated nuclear power *OR*
- utilizing existing US generated wind power *OR*
- utilizing existing US *ANY MEANS OF PRODUCING ELECTRICITY* power *OR*
- utilizing any future determined means of producing electricity *OR*
- utilizing future direct hydrogen production from solar or nuclear sources

to make the hydrogen we burn in our cars. 

 

Fixed that for ya

Hydrogen production is relatively easy.  The production of hydrogen NEVER results in the amount of potential energy as was used to product it, BUT this is outweighed when non-portable, infinitely renewable, LOCAL energy sources are used to produce them.  Electricity from nuclear power plants, hydroelectric plants, and even dedicated solar hydrogen plants are VERY feasible and rely on NO foreign resources.  Furthermore, there are theoretical means of much more direct production of hydrogen thorugh nuclear or solar means (in other words instead of using nuclear or solar energy to create electricity which is then used to extract hydrogen, there are means of extracting hydrogen directly using solar or nuclear).  The development of these technologies could lead to even more efficient hydrogen production.

The bottom line is that this is a VERY viable and indefinitely sustainable means of escaping from this trap of foreign dependence we've found ourselves in.

I hope you're right. I'm just doubtful that anyone is that serious about it beyond scoring points with the govt. and public for "efforts" rather than results.

[defiance]

True - it's hard to be cynical about the potential, once you really look at it! ... but it's pretty hard NOT to be cynical about what the mfg's will actually do

[MichaelRW]

Wouldn't it be great if something was invented and oil became obsolete? Just think of the possibilities. I won't say anymore because I don't want this to turn political.

[bull]

Whatever happens I just hope and pray we can still have fun driving our classic Chargers.