Scored a HEMI from a Sox & Martin built Duster Update 21/1-07 See page 2

[Mefirst]

This is car is where the History begins.... A Sox & Martin built Plymouth Duster. This Duster made it´s way over the Atlantic to The United Kingdom some time during the late 70´s. (NOTE!!! I´ve changed the text here cause Jon Smith came with new info!!!) Actually there were two Sox & Martin race cars that made the journey over the Atlantic. The Duster with the name "Brooklyn Heavy" and a Challenger with name "London Heavy"... (This picture is sadly the only picture I have found of the "Brooklyn Heavy")



The guy who bought both cars was/is the son of the owner of Bell´s Whisky distillery. Both cars were compeeting in the Pro Stock series in the UK. Changes were made to the UK Pro Stock series rules, for the season of 1981. Both the Duster and Challenger were equipped with Lenco transmissions and because of that, the cars were not allowed to compete in the Pro Stock series any more.. Both cars were put on sale and a Swedish guy, by the name of Lasse Svensson, bought the "Brooklyn Heavy" Duster in 1981. He competed with it in the Swedish Pro Stock/Comp series until 1993. What ever happend to the Challenger "London Heavy" is still under debate, nobody really knows what happend to that car over here (Maby I/we can get more info from our friends over in the UK?)... To what I have learned the "Brooklyn Heavy" was also painted another colour at some point, but was later repainted again to look like it originally did...

In 1994 Lasse Svensson put the Duster for sale. He took out the HEMI engine and sold the car with a 340 engine. The Duster was sold to a guy who lives in a city south of Stockholm. After this the Duster seems to have disappeared. Nobody I talked to have seen it for several years. It´s probably standing forgotten in some garage or the new owner broke it down to restore it and never got it bolted back together... This is where the story ends concerning the Duster "Brooklyn Heavy"....

Then about the HEMI...

When the Duster was put on sale, the owner pulled out the Hemi and replaced it with a 340 engine. The Hemi was bought by a local Speed Shop owner named Goran Persakers in 1994. He had bought Paul Rossi Super Stock Challenger, built by Direct Connection back in 1985. The Paul Rossi Challenger was first bought by the couple Geof and Silvia Hauser (from the UK) back in the late 70´s... The Chally came originally equipped with a Dave Koffel built B-1 499cid engine. I have no info about what happend to the B-1 engine, but in 1994 Goran Persakers needed a new engine for the Challenger, so the previous "Brooklyn Heavy" Hemi fit nicely between the fenders of the Chally.

This is what the Chally looked like during the time Goran Persakers owned it... (You can also see the tunnel ram intake, with double Dominator carbs sticking out through the hood, that I posted pictures of in another post)



The Hemi served as the power dynamo for the Challenger during season 1994 to 1996 in the Swedish Super Stock series. His best ET was, to what he remembers 10.2sec. with a trap speed of 215Km/h or 134mph. He said the Chally should have been a little faster, but he never managed to perfectly tune the double Dominator carbs...

Goran Persakers then sold the Challenger as a "roller" to a guy named Jocke Martensson (1996) and he equipped the "roller" Challenger with a 440 Six-Pack engine and continued to compete with it in the Super Stock series. Jocke Martensson also repainted the Challenger after he bought it, so it would again look the same as it did when Paul Rossi owned the Chally.



OK. So now the Hemi is standing and collecting dust in Goran Persakers garage. Then later in 1996 Goran Persakers sold the Hemi to a guy named Christer Friberg, who needed an engine for his 4-speed 1970 Challenger. Christer Friberg replaced the roller cam with a hydraulic one, so the engine wouldn't´t need that much attention... He drove the Chally occasionally until 2001. One reason he did not enjoy driving it so often, was that the Hemi had 12,5:1 in compression, so it needed race fuel mixed with 99 oct. fuel... The final blow also came in 2001, when the Swedish car Inspections Office made a decision to stop the fun. Reason was that they did not let the Chally through the inspection, because of excessive rust damage to the floors, etc.. and poor functioning brakes...

So the Chally was parked in the garage from 2001 and stood, still standing there, more or less with out TLC...

Well then I came into the picture. I started the rebuild of my Charger in late 2004.. My buddy who helped me with the rebuild, pointed out to me, that the Chally standing over in the corner of the garage, was equipped with a Hemi engine, that came from a real Sox & Martin race car. This was very interesting and we started to talk about how we could talk the owner into selling the Chally, or at least the engine to me.. At first he was not interested and told us that he would rebuild the car to be road legal again... Well nothing happend with the Chally, so I had my buddy call the owner from time to time and ask if he was interested in selling the whole car or just the Hemi. I was personally only interested in the Hemi. If I would have had to buy the whole car, I would have pulled the Hemi out and sold the Chally as a "roller" project...

Well moving on.... Then finally the day came when the Chally owner said -OK, you can buy the Hemi.. This day was the 23rd of September 2006.. I payed him the 2nd of October. We also made a deal that he would get the top end of my dead 440 (Eddy aluminium RPM Heads compleat with valve train, push rods, Mopar aluminium valve covers and the mek. camshaft. He needed these parts so he would be able to rebuild a 440 he has standing in the corner) This way I had enough cash to buy the Hemi and still have some money left over to restore it, cause it has been standing for such a long time...

So this is the story about how I became a Hemi owner... Sadly I don't have any pictures yet of the Hemi, it´s still bolted between the fenders of the Chally, but I will pull it out as soon as I have the time and start the rebuild.. Ill post pictures once I have it out...

One more thing... -Sadly I do NOT have any paper work about the Hemi. Al the written information in this post, is what I found out talking over the phone, with the previous owners of the Hemi engine. There has not been that many owners, so I personally believe al this information to be correct.. I do wish I could get everything proved and some kind of documentation, but I don´t think that will ever be possible cause of the very long time period and because it is a race engine...

Some info about the Hemi engine...

Kellogg Pro Stock steel crank (Probably, need to check this)
Ported Hemi aluminium heads (May be the D6 Hemi heads, I need to check the cast number)
Nascar rods (What ever they are???)
Venolia pistons (Also needs to be checked out)
Compression 12.5:1

Gear drive (Don´t remember the manufacturer at this moment, I left the info paper at the garage)
Crane roller cam shaft part # 669091 (It now has a hyd. cam installed)

The block has been machined for weight savings and it has Elephant ears. Bored .020 over.
Compleat Milodon oiling system (Added by Goran Persakers)

More info will come later on when I learn more about the engine and if I find out more about it´s  history...

/Tom

[Brock Samson]

i was wonderin when you'd spill the beans.. 

congrats where's your 440?..

[Jon Smith]

london heavy was a challenger

[Mefirst]

Thank you for the pictures John -Damn, you lern something new every day.. Every one I´ve spoken to told me that the "London Heavy" was a Duster... I´ll be damned...

-Do you have more pictures of the "Brooklyn Heavy" Duster?? and can you tell me/us what happend to the "London Heavy" Challenger??

/Tom

[Jon Smith]

just those above
I got them from the acceleration archive, have a look there might be more, i havent checked every page
http://www.theaccelerationarchive.co.uk

also try http://www.ukdrn.co.uk/ I havent looked for it on there but it has tons of old pics and some excellent old video footage, you might get lucky..

[Mefirst]

just those above
I got them from the acceleration archive, have a look there might be more, i havent checked every page
http://www.theaccelerationarchive.co.uk

also try http://www.ukdrn.co.uk/ I havent looked for it on there but it has tons of old pics and some excellent old video footage

-Thanks Jon... I owe you a couple of pints of your favourite beer

[firefighter3931]

Tom, that's quite the story !  So, how fast was the Duster with this bullet ? Any idea how much the duster weighed ? Is this a stock stroke Hemi ? 


Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, that's quite the story ! So, how fast was the Duster with this bullet ? Any idea how much the duster weighed ? Is this a stock stroke Hemi ?

Ron

I have no info about how fast the Duster was or how much it weighed. The Hemi is a stock stroke engine...

[firefighter3931]

Tom, when you buy the Hemi make sure to get the flexplate with it if it is currently set up as an auto trans. The hemi cranks are 8 bolt as opposed to 6-bolt for all the other B-RB engines.


Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, when you buy the Hemi make sure to get the flexplate with it if it is currently set up as an auto trans. The hemi cranks are 8 bolt as opposed to 6-bolt for all the other B-RB engines.


Ron

-Yeah, I will have to get a new flex plate for it. The Chally it´s in now is a 4-spd.. I did actually think about buying the 4-spd aswell, its a race prepped trans. But the work to convert my ride to accept the 4-spd trans is something I just don´t feel like doing.. If I did that, I would probably not get my ride back on the road for 2007.. and also there is no way I´ll give you time to rethink the plan concerning your ride

/Tom

[tan top]

 good story 

[Mefirst]

Found out some 1/4 mile times for both the Brooklyn Heavy and London Heavy...

Back in 1974 "London Heavy", the Challenger pulled a 9.64sec/139Mph time slip. This was the fastest time slip to that date in the UK Pro Stock series... Well, the fun didn´t last long... Come May 5th 1974 "Brooklyn Heavy" Duster pulled a 9.51sec/144Mph time slip...

This is the only info I found so far about time slips...

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Damn fine find there!

Im assuming a lot of chassis modifications as well as a certified roll cage will be in order for your Charger....or are you going to "detune" the engine?

[Ghoste]

Wow, and we think all the cool car sstories are only to found over here.  Congrats on your being next in line for some of that history.

[Mefirst]

Damn fine find there!

Im assuming a lot of chassis modifications as well as a certified roll cage will be in order for your Charger....or are you going to "detune" the engine?

I´ve already rebuilt the chassis, so I don´t think I´ll have to mod it further.. Well maby I´ll 4-link it, but I'm not ready to do that just yet... I won´t mod the engine any further right now, than replace the hyd. cam with the roller cam, replace the stock hemi intake with a custom made aluminium intake... I will also add a rollbar, much like the one that Ron has in his 68 and race seats and 5 point seat belts..

Other than that I won´t do much else, well the rear axel will probably need to be changed out at some point and I also think the 727 trans needs more heavy duty internals... But I´ll cross that bridge when I get there.... I have planed on adding a fogger nitrous system as well at some point.. My aim is to become the owner of an almost full weight Charger, that is still able to pull 9sec times on the 1/4 mile... Thats my aim with my ride...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

That Motor was making some really good power back in the day !  The rollbar is a must at this point because you'll be well past the 11.50 threshold once it's all back together. What's this talk about 9in Furd rear ends....wash your mouth out with soap ! 


No plans to alter my engine combo at this point brother Tom....i wanna see what she does as is ! Even if it costs me a case of Heinekin...lmao ! I'll still do the stroker eventually but i'm gonna squeeze all i can out of this 446....just because. 


Tom, looking forward to the buildup of your new engine......it's gonna be sweeet ! 


Ron

[Chryco Psycho]

Awesome find
cool history & pix too
Congrats

[Wakko]

Awesome story, post some pics!!  Did you steal the engine or did he know what it was worth?

[Mefirst]

Me and my buddy started the prepwork this Saturday so we can pull out the Hemi next weekend. Only thing left to unbolt are the headers and transmission and the elephant ears...

I also found out a new interesting thing about my Hemi, a small piece of race car history, only this time it concerns Bruno Donatis "Speedwin" Cuda..



The guy, who also owned the Hemi I bough at one time, Goran Persakers also owned the "Speedwin" Cuda. He bought it back in 1982 and raced it both on the track and on the street... Sadly the Cuda burned up so bad that it could not be saved, during a race weekend at Santa Pod raceway in the UK in the mid 1980´s. There was faul play, but eventhough the Police investigated, they could not find out who set the Cuda on fire... So sadly another great race car was lost...

..anyways... back to what I found out... The elephant ears that mounts the Hemi securely into the engine bay are from the car "Speedwin". Both "ears" are stamped with the name "Speedwin". I tried to take pics of the stamps, but I could not get a good and clear picture of them...

..and finally a pic of the happy owner -Me. I am unbolting the carb. Its funny how an engine can bring such a big smile to ones face...



More reports will follow as the project continues...

The plan is to pull the Hemi. Open it up and diagnose everything, if something seems even a little worn out, it will be replaced. A Milodon external dual line oiling system is going to be fitted. New deep Milodon oil pan. Replace the hyd. cam with the roller cam. The stock Hemi intake will be replaced with a custom made aluminium one. Im also going to add a crankcase wacume pump system. Those ugly chrome walvecovers are also going to be changed out, chrome stuff look so outtaw place on a race engine in my opinion..


/Tom

[Ghoste]

Thanks for the update Tom.  That's a hell of a piece of insulation on that fuel line ahead of the regulator.

[firefighter3931]

Looks good Tom....no wonder you're smiling  I think you should put that tunnel ram on the Hemi ! 

Can't wait to see more pics ! 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Thanks for the update Tom.  That's a hell of a piece of insulation on that fuel line ahead of the regulator.

Yeah, it does look kinda wild..

Looks good Tom....no wonder you're smiling  I think you should put that tunnel ram on the Hemi ! 

Ron

The Tunnel Ram intake would be cool, but then again I want to keep things simple and use just one carb... with the custom made intake the engine will look kinda similar to this, well I will ofcourse add walvecovers, etc...



/Tom

[68chargerboy]

great story i wish i could find something like that. 

                           Zach

    P.S. if you are not going to use the 4/speed i would be interested in buying it 

[Mefirst]

25/11-2006

Pulled out the engine from the Chally today.. Here are some pix of the engine..



In this pic you can see how the block has been machined. There are also several holes drilled into different places on it to get rid of weight..



There are no other markings or code # on the block, accept for the M55 stamp on the block ID pad.. There is though one stamp on the heads. Its the company who made the Hemi heads, Mullen & Co and a what you could call part or cast #

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Nice Tom !!!  Those brass frost plugs look pretty new. Any idea when it was last rebuilt ? I suppose you're gonna go with a motor plate as well ?


Ron

[Mefirst]

Ron

The engine was rebuilt a short time before the guy I bought it from bought it.. Its bored .030. But just to take it safe, Im gonna open it up and check out the internals and put in new bearings, reason is it has been standing unused for so many years. I will use the motorplate..

/Tom

[greenpigs]

Glad to hear you got the Hemi First, but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.

[firefighter3931]

but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.[/color][/b]

GROW UP ! 

[greenpigs]

but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.[/color][/b]

GROW UP ! 

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

[Mefirst]

but could you remove the pic of yourself as I nearly vomited.[/color][/b]

GROW UP ! 

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

[Silver R/T]

congrats, looking good

[Brock Samson]

i thought that was pretty funny myself...
good goin Tom. post more pls...

[Mefirst]

Ill get back to the Hemi in January 2007.. I was working these last two weekends so I had no energy to go to the garage and this incoming weekend I'm leaving to go home to Finland to spend Christmas with my family and friends..

The first project when I start again is to pull the heater from the car, it doesn't work anyways, so.. Then I also hope to sell the left over parts from the diseased 440.. I'm gonna open up the Hemi and check the bearings and well the overall condition of the engine. Every internal part that looks even a little suspicious will be changed out for new fresh parts..

Well then I have some major decisions to make about the engine..

Right now it has a hydraulic cam and a single plane Hemi intake with a single carb. My plan is/was to change out the hyd. cam and put in the roller. Then I have a highrise aluminium intake that a guy is welding together for me + adding some other race parts... But lately Ive been kinda rethinking the whole engine deal. We don't have a race track here in Stockholm any more, so to put together a Race engine seems to be kinda dumb right now..

So I'm torn about what to do.. Leave the "race" parts on the shelf and wait and leave the Hemi with the hyd. cam and stock intake or should I still go for the Hardcore version The engine should give out +600Hp as it is, the Race version would be some +700Hp but would not be cruise or like user friendly.. The decision would be simple if we still had a race track, but now that we don't, well... Of course there is always the alternative to race on the street compeeting in the not so legal Birka Cup..

This dilemma about what do to with the engine just sucks right now...

/Tom

[Moparornocar13]

YOU think that YOU'RE happy... think how that hemi's gonna feel once its sitting between those CHARGER fenders for the first time... 

[firefighter3931]

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

Just out of curiosity, what's a uniformed  post ?  


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Tom, throw a blower on that Hemi ! 


Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, throw a blower on that Hemi ! 

Ron

Ron

Well the thought has crossed my mind to add a blower. Problem is I would have to change out internal parts to get it to work or use a head gasket about a half inch thick The engine has a comp of close to 13.0:1 so that would be an issue running a blower on it without having access to Jet Fuel..

The compression is already a problem, the former owner drove the car on 99oct and had issues with detonation, so I have to use a thicker head gasket to get the comp down to some 12.0:1 with that comp it should run well on Shell V-Power 99oct unleaded.. I also thought about converting it to run on E85. The conversion would not be that difficult, but Id have to run the engine in a Dyno to get it tuned properly. With the 440 disaster I'm not that excited about running the Hemi in a dyno...

Ron or Neil***

-What do you think about using something like this Crane hydraulic roller camshaft # 669151 It would shorely be more user friendly than the Crane roller cam I have # 669091

/Tom

[greenpigs]

That was for the little running joke me and First have, sorry you didn't know the whole story and made an uniformed post.

Just out of curiosity, what's a uniformed  post ?  


Ron

In the chat room First & I sling insults at each other on a regular basis, but since you rarely visit the chatroom you wouldn't know this. Then you may think I was just being a jerk when in fact I was being myself. 

[firefighter3931]

Tom, throw a blower on that Hemi ! 

Ron

Ron

Well the thought has crossed my mind to add a blower. Problem is I would have to change out internal parts to get it to work or use a head gasket about a half inch thick The engine has a comp of close to 13.0:1 so that would be an issue running a blower on it without having access to Jet Fuel..

The compression is already a problem, the former owner drove the car on 99oct and had issues with detonation, so I have to use a thicker head gasket to get the comp down to some 12.0:1 with that comp it should run well on Shell V-Power 99oct unleaded.. I also thought about converting it to run on E85. The conversion would not be that difficult, but Id have to run the engine in a Dyno to get it tuned properly. With the 440 disaster I'm not that excited about running the Hemi in a dyno...

Ron or Neil***

-What do you think about using something like this Crane hydraulic roller camshaft # 669151 It would shorely be more user friendly than the Crane roller cam I have # 669091

/Tom

Tom, don't mess around with thick head gaskets and such....that's just a bandaid fix. Put some new pistons in that badboy and throw the blower on it. Pump gas and 750 streetable horsepower. The hemi was made to be blown.....take advantage of that hemispherical chamber and take no prisoners ! 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

[
In the chat room First & I sling insults at each other on a regular basis, but since you rarely visit the chatroom you wouldn't know this. Then you may think I was just being a jerk when in fact I was being myself. 

Ya i figured as much GP.....I didn't know that on my initial post. I'm sure if you were reading that response and dind't know the history between the 2 posters, you's probably have the same reaction. 

No harm, no foul....it's all good. 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, don't mess around with thick head gaskets and such....that's just a bandaid fix. Put some new pistons in that badboy and throw the blower on it. Pump gas and 750 streetable horsepower. The hemi was made to be blown.....take advantage of that hemispherical chamber and take no prisoners ! 

Ron

Yeah. I know the Hemi is perfect for a blower setup. Problem is though that right now I don´t have any where near the cash to change out the internals or buy a blower. If I was to change out the internals in the future I´d probably go with a 572 stroker kit and a roots blower..

I'm not gonna drop the compression much cause compression also equals power, but 13 in compression is a bit to much for a street engine if you want to drive on pump fuel.. Then again if I was to convert it to run on E85 the 13 comp would not be a problem. I am actually more and more considering to go with that option, but I'm not shore I would survive watching the Hemi strapped to a Dyno. To run it in a Dyno would be the only way to dial in the carb setup precisely with E85

By the way, would you have an other newer and better cam option instead of the old roller grind # 669091 I lernt that the new modern roller cam grinds don´t kill off the valve springs as fast..

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Another thing..

What do you guys think about running a vacuum pump system on the engine? Ive been checking this pump kit out http://www.gzmotorsports.com/street-pump-kits.html

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Another thing..

What do you guys think about running a vacuum pump system on the engine? Ive been checking this pump kit out http://www.gzmotorsports.com/street-pump-kits.html

/Tom

Tom, the only pump you need sits between the carb and intake manifold 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

By the way, would you have an other newer and better cam option instead of the old roller grind # 669091 I lernt that the new modern roller cam grinds don´t kill off the valve springs as fast..

/Tom

Tom, if you're planning on a street type build, there are a lot of good solid roller profiles that won't beat the valvetrain to death. 

These grinds don't require the big spring pressures and close the valves more gently. Comp has a number of street friendly lobes in their master library and there are other companies you can deal with as well. Does this Hemi have a roller valvetrain ? If so, aluminum or steel rockers ?


Ron

[Mefirst]

Ron

Well the vacuume pump would not hurt and there are benefits to run one, but then again Im begining to think it would be an overkill to use it on my Hemi. About the blower, yeah it would be a cool addition and I will bolt one on in the future..

About the cam. -Yeah, the roller cam does kill the valvetrain in the long run and its not userfriendly either. I have to lift off the valve covers cause I have no idea if the rockers are aluminium or steel. The rockers are Mopars own assembly, my guess is that they are made of steel. It has now hyd. lifters, push rods and springs (these springs are probably dead cause the engine has been standing unused for so long). I have got the roller lifters, pushrods and springs ready (came with the engine).

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Tom, i agree the vac pump might be a bit of overkill for the street....but they do work well in high rpm race applications. 


Snap a few pics when you pull the VC's so we can see what's inside there for valvetrain components.  The supplied parts will put you well on your way to a roller cam installation.  Hopefully the valvesprings are compatible with whatever profile you decide on. 


Ron

[Mefirst]

Update 13/1-2007

After spending about a month away from the garage and my Charger I again got my act together and spent some time in the garage. I unbolted and took out the Heater/AC box "thingy" al together, reason is that it didint even work, only took up space under the dash... I thought this operation would be a much bigger headache than it actually was. It was actually more or less unbolt and pull it out... Then again a warning, there is still water inside the heater, so if you tilt it to much, you'll spill water on the car floor

Well on to the interesting part about my day in the garage... I started to pull the Hemi appart. Unbolted the intake and then driver side head.. After that I kinda ran out off steam. In my defence I had worked 3 nights and again had to work later in the evening.. But at least I got things going again with my Charger/Hemi project...

Here are some pictures...

Intake and driver side head unbolted and a view into the heart of the engine... Notice that the block is painted on the inside as well. This is a trick that racers use so the oil from the valvetrain will return down into the oilpan faster.. Don't know if it actually works or not, but some racers swear that it does...





My buddy measured the bore of the cylinders... and Lo and Behold it seems that the cylinders are al STOCK bore (4.25") Seems that the only thing done is that the engine cylinders have been honed at some point in time and then one of the previous owners added Venolia pistons... Then again the Mauser meter may not have been the most accurate, but still we measured al 4 cylinders and they are al the about the same 4.256" in diameter...

Some pix of the inside of the cylinders, cylinder walls and pistons. Notice the work done make the flow better over the piston dome..







As you can see the pistons are covered in soot, so I need to clean them up a bit. Same goes for the valves..

Here are the Hemi heads, port work done by Mullen & Co.. The intake/exhaust ports look like

Picture of intake side of the head..



Exhaust side...



Well thats al I have this time, but another update will follow...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Nice pics Tom...those heads look fantastic !  The cylinder walls look to be in descent shape from what i can see in the pics 

Those pistons sure look funny 

So, you still thinking roller cam ? 



Ron

[Brock Samson]

I remember when i met you on here Tom,.. and you were wowed by MY combo...
   

nice pics!

[Mefirst]

Nice pics Tom...those heads look fantastic !  The cylinder walls look to be in descent shape from what i can see in the pics 

Those pistons sure look funny 

So, you still thinking roller cam ? 

Ron

Ron

-Yeah. I'm going with a roller cam. Haven't yet decided though which one. I'm not gonna use the Crane 669091 that came with the engine when I bought it. Its just insane to drive the engine on the street with that cam when the lift is .750 It would eat valve springs like a kid eats candy... But I will save it for future use, that cam will work well with the custom made aluminium intake I had made.. I got a sweet deal on an Indy intake for the Dominator carb I have, so thats the intake I'm gonna use on it for now, then find a cam that will work well with it and the rest of the combo. I also need to find out the exact compression of the engine. None of the previous owners remembers what the comp exactly is.. One says 12.5 or 12.7 and the one I bought it from says it is 13.0..

The heads look awsome, damn I can almost fit my fist into the intake ports. I thought about having them tested on how much they flow. Its not that expensive to do that test, so I think it would be worth it and fun just to know...

You can still see the cross hatch patter in the cylinder walls, they look like new, then again the engine has not been driven that much since it came to Sweden. It was never in a street car until the guy I bought it from put it in his Chally, and he did not drive the car that much.. I also know the owner before the one I bought it from, had it rebuilt and only did a couple of runs with it on the track before he pulled it out and then sold it.. So my guess is that the engine doesn't have that many miles on it, more or less just enough to have broken it in...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Update 21/1-2007

Well had a productive Saturday again in the garage.. Unbolted most of the stuff of the Hemi and -Damn the engine looks like brand new inside

Sadly I don't have any pictures to show, I forgot the camera at home Ill take some pictures next Saturday. My plan is to unbolt the crank and pistons so I can check the bearings.. Ill probably change out the bearings, even if they look good, maby an overkill, but I'm not cutting any corners, reason is the engine will be turning out some major horsepower..

The prediction is that the Hemi will be good for some 700Hp N/A and I'm planing on adding a Fogger nitrous system to add another 250-300Hp.. Reason is there is a small issue with a Chevy Nova and a Pontiac GTO that needs to be taken care off and a couple of other cars that Id also love to add to my "Killed" list.. The Mopar camp over here in Stockholm have sadly got our ass kicked for a long time, so I think its time to take care of this issue once and for al and to regain some leverage...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Nice.....good plan with the bearing inspection and replacement.  After your last experience i think you've learned to trust no one. 

Any ideas on a cam profile ? I'm thinking that this engine is gonna want to rev real high with the small displacement and big heads. A gear change might also be in order (4.56)


Ron

[Mefirst]

Ron

I haven't made up my mind about what cam to use yet.. Id like to use a some what aggressive cam profile, but keep the lift under .700, so that it wont kill the valve springs right away. The shift point will be at 7500RPM, so -Yeah, the engine will see some high rews. The thing that makes it hard is that the cam more or less has to be a compromise, because we lost the local track, so the cam profile I want, needs to work some what ok on the street, but still be aggressive..

I have thought about the gears to. The rear gears are right now 3.91, its probably not what the Hemi would like, but I will run those for now and do a change of gears later.. I don't want to change to many things right now, I haven't even had the chance to do a real test on how the car performs like it is..

/Tom

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

go with 4.10's

[firefighter3931]

Ron

I haven't made up my mind about what cam to use yet.. Id like to use a some what aggressive cam profile, but keep the lift under .700, so that it wont kill the valve springs right away. The shift point will be at 7500RPM, so -Yeah, the engine will see some high rews. The thing that makes it hard is that the cam more or less has to be a compromise, because we lost the local track, so the cam profile I want, needs to work some what ok on the street, but still be aggressive..

I have thought about the gears to. The rear gears are right now 3.91, its probably not what the Hemi would like, but I will run those for now and do a change of gears later.. I don't want to change to many things right now, I haven't even had the chance to do a real test on how the car performs like it is..

/Tom

Tom, the cam is gonna be tricky. The mild gears and stall will create some issues because the engine needs to be built to rev.  More than likely, you will be looking at a custom grind that is designed around those parameters. The duration will determine the operating range of the engine. 

Comp has some descent street friendly roller grinds that don't require killer spring pressures that you might want to look at. 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, the cam is gonna be tricky. The mild gears and stall will create some issues because the engine needs to be built to rev.  More than likely, you will be looking at a custom grind that is designed around those parameters. The duration will determine the operating range of the engine. 

Comp has some descent street friendly roller grinds that don't require killer spring pressures that you might want to look at. 

Ron

Ron..

I know that the gears might not be optimal, but I have to start some where, if I don't, it will take two more years before the car is back on the road. But I'm not that worried, like the rear tires I have are not that high, like you usually see with cars running 4.XX gears.. so the gears might not be a really big problem after al. The rear tire diameter is 28" and the guys running with 4.XX or 5.XX gears usually run tires 2-4" higher in diameter... Also about the turbine, the stall is 3500Rpm so it might/should flash up to 4500Rpm behind the engine, so if the "typical" more or less aggressive roller cam will start to pull hard at 3500-4000Rpm then to my understanding thats right in the ball park. And a BB engine will never pull as hard off the line as a SB, its takes a while for the BB beast to really wake up...

Another thing, me an my buddy have no idea how the car itself will perform, like I have only done 4 passes at the track, and those passes did not say anything how the car works other than it rode straight. So we cant start to change stuff on the car, when we don't even know how the set-up works right now..

My buddy thought about using this cam profile that Indy uses, but its still just at an idea stage. We have also talked about a custom cam, but that also causes its own problems. We also talked about testing the flow of the heads, that might make it easier to chose a cam profile that would work..

Part # is 426-C1-H-R1

Dur. @ .050 is .268/.264
Lift with 1.6/1.55 is .660/.636
Centerline 110

Another problem is that the compression in the engine is @ 13.4:1, in other words NOT pump fuel friendly. So the compression causes some headache as well, need to get it down to around 12.0:1, then maby it will run OK with Shell V-Power 99Oct. (Unleaded)

..so the problem is more or less that everything needs to be a compromise right now, if not, well then it would take another year or two, until I have the car back on the road (money issues), and that would probably kill me so doing compromises at this point does not feel that bad. Reason is the car is not even close to being finished and ready, at this stage its just one more step towards final perfection, even though I have to make some compromises at this stage of the project...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Another problem is that the compression in the engine is @ 13.4:1, in other words NOT pump fuel friendly. So the compression causes some headache as well, need to get it down to around 12.0:1, then maby it will run OK with Shell V-Power 99Oct. (Unleaded)

/Tom

Yep, i see that as being the biggest issue....13.4 is wat to much for pump gas. A big cam can bleed off some cylinder pressure but that would have to be a really BIG cam !  Somehow you need to pull some static compression out of the engine so that it's pump fuel friendly and choose a cam with a later intake valve closing point to keep cylinder pressure in check. If you need some help send me a pm and i'll hook you up with an awesome cam specialist. 


Ron

[Mefirst]

Yep, i see that as being the biggest issue....13.4 is wat to much for pump gas. A big cam can bleed off some cylinder pressure but that would have to be a really BIG cam !  Somehow you need to pull some static compression out of the engine so that it's pump fuel friendly and choose a cam with a later intake valve closing point to keep cylinder pressure in check. If you need some help send me a pm and i'll hook you up with an awesome cam specialist. 

Ron

Ron

-Yeah, the compression is a major headache. I will try to use a .060 head copper gasket, with that the comp should drop to 12 something.

One solution that would make the compression problem go away, would be to run the engine on E85, cause of the high octane (105-106Oct) I have been reading allot about this conversion. Then again I would have to run a completely new braided fuel line that needs to be at least 1/2" in diameter, modify the fuel tank or mount a fuel cell, redo the carburetor, etc.. Right now I have a 3/8" fuel line. I will buy the Aeromotive SS electrical fuel pump, that pump has enough flow to even work with E85 and it also has a connection for the return fuel line..

If you have an E-mail to some camshaft Guru, you can PM me the e-mail addy or contact info. My buddy does have a connection with a Speedshop owner in New York. This guy used to seriously compete in dragracing. He mostly raced smallblock cars. His name is Richter (sp?) something. I have bought most of the stuff mounted on my car from him and he really does know engines and performance parts. He put together a couple of engines from my buddy's friends over in Finland, and they have done really well out on the track with those engines.. My buddy is going to ask him for some advise concerning the cam as well...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Tom, check your PM's.....you've got mail 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Tom, check your PM's.....you've got mail 

Ron

-Now you got mail to buddy

/Tom

[JrRacing_1]

Hey guys, my grand father has the 1973 pro stock London Heavy Challenger. I've Done some digging on the car trying to see if there was any history about the car, about 2 years ago. At first we believed it belong to Dick Landy but after digging deeper on the car we found out it was London Heavy with the Sox and Martin Hemi Engine. Recently I also found out that the car was driven in the U.S by Carmen Rotonda and I assume Dick Landy. My grand father has the challenger today with the hemi Engine itself  and 98% of the original parts such as the , complete original Motor, bell housing and almost everything especially the linco transmission and clutch. We slowly rebuilding the car due to other work we have. My grandfather bought the car from a guy in NY in the late 80s. But today the car still lives and should be coming back soon. Plz contact us if anything and if you guys have more pictures of the car plz let us know. We are located in Long Island, NY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKCRoJK-wNw  ( Found this video of the challenger )  Skip to 2:10 to see the car racing in the U.S



Contact: Ramonjr426@gmail.com

[sccachallenger]

Double wow!
Glad you found this site.
Great to see pics of the Challenger, please share pics and progress as you can.