gunman in colorado kills one high school girl

[RD]

...then kills himself.

man... what a tragedy.  this stuff is getting totally out of control.  what in the HELL causes wacko's to want to do this type of violence?  I do not get it.

your thoughts?

[Brock Samson]

common RD you know from Biblical study the word is a wicked place...

[dodge freak]

Like to know what the big rush was for the SWAT team to storm the building at 4 pm ? He said he was going to hurt the 2 girls if they came in and thats what happen. Thank god at least 1 was ok but what about the other one ? He would had passed out after a long time-he was by himself. He had 6 girls at first and released 4 of them so he was letting them go slowly. Even if he was rapping them or threatening to do so, it still was better than what happen. Now a 16 year old girl is dead, he did not shoot her until after the SWAT team moved in. In fact nobody was shot until the SWAT team moved in. Great job guys, you saved 1 out of 3 lives. How long did the SWAT team wait 3-5 hours ? Wow, what happen to the 12-20 hour stand offs ? Too much work ? Quiting time, needed to go home and eat dinner I guess.

Yes it was the gunman fault in the first place , but the police should not make the problem worst. Nobody was shot, there was no rush-they should have waited-at least till night time. They could have cut the power and it would have been dark in there. The police have night vision googlies which they could have seen in the dark.

[TruckDriver]

It is sad. Unfortunely the other girl will never be the same again. The mental trama will change her for ever.   I have nightmares because I worry about something like this happening to one of my boys.

[Shakey]

This kind of thing has been going on for years and will continue, unfortunately!   

With the media the way it is, all around us 24 / 7, more and more young people see this as a way of getting attention, even if it means giving their own life for it!   

It won't be long before it happens again and again and again.   

It would be insteresting to see what his home life was like.  Imagine hidden cameras with audio all throughout his home, so we could all see what life was like for the past year or so?   

I say this because I'd like to see how his parents treated him and his siblings, how he treated his parents and his siblings or if there were any signs of this coming.

What drives a young person to do this type of thing?

[dodge freak]

Some of these young people belong to Vampire Freaks, a web site like this but they have 638,000 members compare to our 2,900 ! The gunman from the Montreal shooting was a member and he was on line everyday saying how he hates everthing like work, people, sports. I look at it afterwards and theres a bunch of kids saying the samething --I love blood, I hate most people. They take pictures of themselves looking crazy like and the members vote on who looks badest. Even lots of girls are on it saying the same things. Yes we have free speech but why not say its like guns or tobacco and have a age limit at least. Theres kids 13 years old on it. All its doing is telling the kids its fine to hate the world.

[Shakey]

Some of these young people belong to Vampire Freaks, a web site like this but they have 638,000 members compare to our 2,900 ! The gunman from the Montreal shooting was a member and he was on line everyday saying how he hates everthing like work, people, sports. I look at it afterwards and theres a bunch of kids saying the samething --I love blood, I hate most people. They take pictures of themselves looking crazy like and the members vote on who looks badest. Even lots of girls are on it saying the same things. Yes we have free speech but why not say its like guns or tobacco and have a age limit at least. Theres kids 13 years old on it. All its doing is telling the kids its fine to hate the world.

It is OK to hate the world - just don't take your anger out on anyone!  That's the crime.

I say keep the vampire site  (http://vampirefreaks.com/) up and running and have the authorities investigate the serious ones.  I am sure there are numerous members that are potential threats on that site but there are probably waaaay more members that just wanna hang out and get some attention.

Kinda like this site.  We have 2800 + members and a lot of these members don't have a Charger, have never driven a Charger and have no interest in restoring a Charger, but simply enjoy hanging out here because we all share the same passion for the car and they lack attention at home.   

[PocketThunder]

Sex.  I vote for sex being the issue with this guy.  he wasnt getting any or at one time his high school girlfriend was screwing his roommate or cheated on him or something and now hes gonna get some no matter what it takes.

[Brock Samson]

they just said on the tv he was 57 years old,... molested the poor girls too... 
"Mad" too I'll wager...

[dodge freak]

I seen he was 53 years old and did mess around with some of the girls. So its was not some young punk that could not get any p----. Why he did what he did who the heck knows. All I do know is that when I was in high school in the 70's this crap never happen. Why it is now, who knows. All we had was dumb fire drills now and then. Glad I am not a high schooler today.

[Shakey]

I seen he was 53 years old and did mess around with some of the girls. So its was not some young punk that could not get any p----. Why he did what he did who the heck knows. All I do know is that when I was in high school in the 70's this crap never happen. Why it is now, who knows. All we had was dumb fire drills now and then. Glad I am not a high schooler today.

Actually Dodge Freak, this kinda stuff did happen in the '70's.  We just never heard about it because we didn't have 24 / 7 news shows like "The Situation Room" or "Nancy Grace - How Can I Get Ratings While Making You Re-Live Your Tragedy".  The www was not around back then and the newspapers didn't pick up stories such as this.  It was just another murder as far as they were concerned.

From the land of milk and honey, where we throw flowers over our shoulders as we skip along cobblestone paths to work each day, I found this:

• October 1978: A 17-year-old student shoots a 16-year-old to death at Sturgeon Creek Regional Secondary School in Winnipeg, allegedly for ridiculing the rock group Kiss. He is found not guilty of first-degree murder by reason of insanity.

• 1975: 18-year-old Robert Poulin, donning military fatigues and carrying his sawed-off shotgun, killed one and injured five others at Saint Pius X High School in Ottawa before turning the gun on himself. Before leaving for the school, Poulin had stabbed and raped a 17-year-old friend, Kim Rabot, and set fire to her body in his bed.

• 1975: Michael Slobodian 16, killed a teacher and student and wounded 13 others at Centennial Secondary School in Brampton, Ont., before killing himself.

Did you know that they used to give away real handguns in Cracker Jack up here in the '70's?    

BTW - CNN says the guy in CO yesterday was 54!   

[Ponch ®]

• October 1978: A 17-year-old student shoots a 16-year-old to death at Sturgeon Creek Regional Secondary School in Winnipeg, allegedly for ridiculing the rock group Kiss . He is found not guilty of first-degree murder by reason of insanity.

hey...you make your bed....

[Shakey]

• October 1978: A 17-year-old student shoots a 16-year-old to death at Sturgeon Creek Regional Secondary School in Winnipeg, allegedly for ridiculing the rock group Kiss . He is found not guilty of first-degree murder by reason of insanity.

hey...you make your bed....

Keyword Mojo - allegedly!

I think there may have been some communication breakdown and the one feller said to the other feller with a French accent "I don't like kiss with you"!

[dodge freak]

There were not mass killings at post offices, other work places. All the shooting which many people have been shot and killed have happen in the late 80's and up. I hear it could be these anti-depression drugs or sleeping pills that can cause people to flip out easier. What ever something is differenet today then in the past. You would think after 9/11 people would value life more but it has not.

[MichaelRW]

There were not mass killings at post offices, other work places. All the shooting which many people have been shot and killed have happen in the late 80's and up. I hear it could be these anti-depression drugs or sleeping pills that can cause people to flip out easier. What ever something is differenet today then in the past. You would think after 9/11 people would value life more but it has not.

I think today's society and media have quite a bit of influence with these nut jobs. There are so many sources for violence, sex, deviant behaviour, etc. that simply wasn't available 20 years ago or so.

[B5 Charger]

Like to know what the big rush was for the SWAT team to storm the building at 4 pm ? He said he was going to hurt the 2 girls if they came in and thats what happen. Thank god at least 1 was ok but what about the other one ? He would had passed out after a long time-he was by himself. He had 6 girls at first and released 4 of them so he was letting them go slowly. Even if he was rapping them or threatening to do so, it still was better than what happen. Now a 16 year old girl is dead, he did not shoot her until after the SWAT team moved in. In fact nobody was shot until the SWAT team moved in. Great job guys, you saved 1 out of 3 lives. How long did the SWAT team wait 3-5 hours ? Wow, what happen to the 12-20 hour stand offs ? Too much work ? Quiting time, needed to go home and eat dinner I guess.

Yes it was the gunman fault in the first place , but the police should not make the problem worst. Nobody was shot, there was no rush-they should have waited-at least till night time. They could have cut the power and it would have been dark in there. The police have night vision googlies which they could have seen in the dark.

He put the Police on a timeline.  For example: "I'm going to kill these girls in ten minutes".  It was sit on your ass and do nothing or do a hostage rescue.  Had they not been put on a timeline I'm sure they would have negotiated longer.  To say that they risked their lives and the lives of those two girls because they needed to get home for dinner is a pretty stupid thing to say.  I'm sure they feel horrible that one girl was killed but I bet the living girls parents are glad they didn't wait around while their daughter was executed.

[sunfire69]

According to reports from CNN at 3:30 he said things would happen at 4:00 then quite talking to police, they had no apparent choice but to act. They couldn't sit around and wait for him to take the first shot.
Yes they risked their lives,

[Charger_Fan]

I think today's society and media have quite a bit of influence with these nut jobs. There are so many sources for violence, sex, deviant behaviour, etc. that simply wasn't available 20 years ago or so.

I'd have to agree with this thought.
These days, just the sheer volume of this type of material available to easily twist weak minds into deranged freaks is astounding.  It's scary to think of what's next.

[Shakey]

There were not mass killings at post offices, other work places. All the shooting which many people have been shot and killed have happen in the late 80's and up. I hear it could be these anti-depression drugs or sleeping pills that can cause people to flip out easier. What ever something is differenet today then in the past. You would think after 9/11 people would value life more but it has not.

Did you know the first known school violence in North America started in MI way back in 1927?  You're dreaming if you think that mass murder is a product of the '80's.

http://www.columbine-angels.com/other_shootings.htm

About a third of the way down the page you will reach 1966.  Start reading some of those stories and tell me that nothing happened as far as school vionlence is concerned, until 1980.

[B5 Charger]

This is what was on CNN's website:

Negotiations with the gunman broke down when he began relaying demands through the hostages and then threatened that something would happen at 4 p.m., Wegener said Wednesday.

[dodge freak]

The fact is nobody was shot even 1 time till the police moved in. This guy was saying stuff like leave me alone, get out of here. So the deadline passed, big deal. People say all sort of stuff. The police jump the gun and 2 out 3 lives were lost. The police had shields and other body shields. They are no hero's in my book. They sound like those guys in that Rambo movie who were told to wait and did not. It was not their kid who was killed either.

[Lowprofile]

Like to know what the big rush was for the SWAT team to storm the building at 4 pm ? He said he was going to hurt the 2 girls if they came in and thats what happen. Thank god at least 1 was ok but what about the other one ? He would had passed out after a long time-he was by himself. He had 6 girls at first and released 4 of them so he was letting them go slowly. Even if he was rapping them or threatening to do so, it still was better than what happen. Now a 16 year old girl is dead, he did not shoot her until after the SWAT team moved in. In fact nobody was shot until the SWAT team moved in. Great job guys, you saved 1 out of 3 lives. How long did the SWAT team wait 3-5 hours ? Wow, what happen to the 12-20 hour stand offs ? Too much work ? Quiting time, needed to go home and eat dinner I guess.

Yes it was the gunman fault in the first place , but the police should not make the problem worst. Nobody was shot, there was no rush-they should have waited-at least till night time. They could have cut the power and it would have been dark in there. The police have night vision googlies which they could have seen in the dark.

The fact is nobody was shot even 1 time till the police moved in. This guy was saying stuff like leave me alone, get out of here. So the deadline passed, big deal. People say all sort of stuff. The police jump the gun and 2 out 3 lives were lost. The police had shields and other body shields. They are no hero's in my book. They sound like those guys in that Rambo movie who were told to wait and did not. It was not their kid who was killed either.

Your Ignorance truly astounds me.

[dodge freak]

Why could they have just waited longer ? What about going though the ceiling and trying to look down and take him out. The police set off bombs and rushed in there. They thought the loud bombs would scare him I guess. I don't know what they thought. They had a tank on the highway too. What about just waiting till he was hungry or thirsty? If he would have started shooting then they should have went in but not before. It takes longer than 4 hours too cool off. This guy was just a homeless guy who had little contact with the police his whole live. Hes a SOB but it could had been handle much better. The police did not try hard enough, just took the quick way out.

[Shakey]

The fact is nobody was shot even 1 time till the police moved in. This guy was saying stuff like leave me alone, get out of here. So the deadline passed, big deal. People say all sort of stuff. The police jump the gun and 2 out 3 lives were lost. The police had shields and other body shields. They are no hero's in my book. They sound like those guys in that Rambo movie who were told to wait and did not. It was not their kid who was killed either.

Tell us exactly how you would have handled it Dodge Freak!  

Let's pretend for a moment you're the Chief of Police.  You get the call that a man has taken hostages at a school.  Let me guess, your initial response would be something like:

Dodge Freak - with a similar voice as of that of Chief Wiggum:

"OK guys, some nutjob has taken some hostages at the school.  No need to panic or rush over there, they are not going anywhere.  Let's have us a good old fashioned 20 hour stand-off!"

"Let's order a pizza, have a few cokes to get pumped up and we'll head over in the morning".  If this guy wants to rape these girls all night, he'll be dead tired in the AM and we can stroll right in and handcuff him.  I am sure the girls will be pleased we saved their lives!"

Am I close?  I used your first post as a guidline.

[dodge freak]

So instead she was rape and killed, not just rape. Great.