68-70 Chargers-Market watch

[h76]

What have you guys seen the market doing. In my opinion,the only 2nd generation you can touch for under 10k is either a 318 car(lots of these popping up recently) or a basketcase(small or big block).What has  been pushing these up in value? Unless it's a completely gone/stripped parts car-I don't think I've seen many sell for under 5k.Seems like chargers are hot and satellite/roadrunners have cooled a bit.Am I off base or is that what you guys have been seeing?Interested in hearing opinions.

[miamivice]

What has  been pushing these up in value?

simple answer, supply and demand

[Ghoste]

I don't think the Road Runners have cooled off that much either.

[41husk]

From what I have seen at the swap meets, it seems the prices are up but the people are taking the cars home at the end of the day.  I just have not seen many move at the elevated prices.  Just my observation.

[h76]

Seems like a decent driver 2nd gen that needs only minor work is around 15k,is that a fair statement?Also, maybe it just seems like the RR's have cooled because there seems to be more for sale(especially 68/69) at any one time and there are more examples to see prices on.

[WINGMAN]

  Deals are still out there, Rocky sold a runing driving 68 charger, not a rust  bucket 318 with ac at the El Dorado show for 5K. 

[h76]

What I should've said above was 15k for big-block car.

[JimShine]

Buy a small block and put in a big block.

[h76]

That seems to be the way the average Joe is going to have to do it these days. I was in no way whining about what prices are-the market is what it is.Somebody in another thread made a good observation that the 318 cars may be a better buy because they aren't all beat up like a lot of R/Ts-mainly because the 318s were generally bought new by the older crowd and not driven as hard.

[70charginglizard]

What has  been pushing these up in value?

simple answer, supply and demand

simpler answer.....2nd Gen Charger Kick A__!

[marangen]

Agree - interested in hearing opinions about prices over last 6 months, 12 months and 24 months for example....

Not only why they keep rising - if they are - but hopefully even an estimate about how much prices are rising!

As for why, we all know why they are rising (or at times levelling off) - supply vs demand, cool cars, demographics etc etc - and this is subject of posts from time to time, BUT very rarely does someone have opinion if prices are up 5-10%ish or 30-40%ish in any given period.

Why is that?

Granted - tough to keep track of sales information, and any answer is a guestimate of course - but I´m surprised no one who follows events or maybe even trades in these classics (even interesting to hear opinion of price developments of Charger 68-70 vs Mustang 68-70 for example) can give an opinion here...!

I would dare to say that 68-70 cars are up 15% on average over last 12 monts (having risen 50-100% over last couple of 3-4 years or so).

Decent driver R/T 68/70, straight body, no (major) rust, decently optioned, non-matching car (auto) that could well benefit from new paint, vinyl and interior, new wheels etc - would today cost 20,000 USD I would have guessed to buy as a driver. Same car would have cost about 15,000 USD 2 years ago I would guess. Add 10-20 in such "cosmetic restoration" and you can sell car without losing money today, that is for sure. Maybe not make a lot of profit, but still a comfortable feeling. I say "feeling" since no one in their right mind would sell such a car, right!

So - that is my opinion - but would be interested to hear from someone who knows better, and who maybe even trades in these cars!

And don´t say we should check with hlpag, or hemmings or any other obvious (smart) answer!



Martin

[BigBlockSam]

From what I have seen at the swap meets, it seems the prices are up but the people are taking the cars home at the end of the day

i agree with you on finished cars and rare chargers but i see projects cars selling on ebay all the time and there not cheap. a crappy rust bucket is $4000 with no engine. Rene

[h76]

If you have a decent driver 2nd generation charger for sale for$5000,I bet it's not for sale for very long at all!

[41husk]

Yes! I agree the projects are going high, but because the finished cars are asking way to much.

[BigBlockSam]

I agree the projects are going high, but because the finished cars are asking way to much

Makes sense 

[Schuler]

They will go down eventually. Are they at peak value? Hard to say.

[41husk]

Cars, coins and other collectibles fluctuate, thats why they are not the most stable investments.

[Brock Samson]

The rate of return is pretty darn good compared to other "investments". of course they can be damaged or stolen too...

[41husk]

It is all supply and demand, A 70 R/T Charger that you bought new for 4k, may get offers of 50k + now, If you hold it for 20 more years and say we no longer use fossil fuel and there is no demand for the vehicle you might be lucky to get 10k for it.  When you consider a 6k return on your investment over 56 years? but like all investments it's speculation.  That same car might be selling for 100k 20 years from now.  I am just saying it is a very risky investment.  Thats why investment is what I tell my wife, when I go buy another  

[myk]

The rate of return is pretty darn good compared to other "investments". of course they can be damaged or stolen too...

No, no, NO don't say things like that!   

[Lord Warlock]

Its hard to qualify most muscle cars as real investments, despite what we tell our wives and kids.  Any investment that takes 20 years of holding it to make a decent return isn't really that good overall.  But that won't stop many of us from buying them anyway.  While its true that some folks will pay out the nose for the "pristine" examples, or those totally restored, but in most cases even those cars don't bring a 50 percent return (certainly not annual return) Keep in mind that the current increase in valuation isn't the first one, there was a significant interest on musclecar investments in the 80s where cars in #1 or #2 condition were pulling sales over 25k, and a few of the 440/6 and hemi cars were over 100k. 

In 14 years, i've made at least 150% return on the value of my house, in 28 years of owning the charger its probably worth about 20 times what i paid for it (but it was bought alot cheaper than the house was) but still doesn't come close to what we spend on a new car these days.  (the days of buying a big block mopar that was all original and ran great with 60k on it for 800 are long long gone) I know i could spend 15k to make it a 30k car but then I wouldn't want to sell it anyway, and as an investment you have to be willing to part with it.  It would take alot more than 30k to make me sell my charger. 

One thing to consider though, when the baby boomers like myself start dying off - and we already are, the majority of the big investors of our era of cars is going to disappear.  Sure there will still be interest from kids who saw our cars in a couple movies, but the majority of investors are baby boomers in their 40s and 50s.  We probably only have another 20 years of hot markets for our cars.  They'll still be worth money for a long time afterward just like 30s and 40s cars are today. 

I'd like to see the car hold a value over 50k and it is quite possible, but I won't be cashing out my IRA's to invest in car projects, I have to make do with cash stashed away for hobbies or selling other cars to come up with funds.   

[41husk]

 

[marangen]

Also agree - but still no one can give opinions/estimates of how these cars have appreciated over last couple of year?

[69DodgeCharger]

20-40% Depending on model and location I am guessing. I would expect them to continue to climb for the next several years. "junkyard dog" projects that are worse than some cars we have parted out are bringing 2-4K anymore. Economy and fuel prices will have a big impact also. Who can afford to put together a "muscle car" when they are getting gouged in the wallet by the fuel companies, insurance companies, medical industry, utilities and banking industry at every turn. It's no secret that big business will always pass any costs directly to the consumer. And when you are struggling to survive your "dream car" quickly looses priority. This I think will be the true indicator of costs for these cars for everybody but those at the very top of the income scale.

[41husk]

It sure looks like it is heading that direction, and it will be sad day when the young enthusiast can't even dream of buying a project Charger.

[6670charger]

I'd say that prices are up anywhere from 25-75% over about five years ago depending on the model and rarity.  Cars that I saw selling for around $1000 a couple of years ago are apparently going for $2-4K today.  The 70 Charger I sold in 2004 was probably worth about $30K at the time.  Today, I doubt if I could get the same car back for much less than $60K.

Remember, prices are subject to the laws of physics:  What goes up, must eventually come down.

[BigBlockSam]

check out ebay. there are so many rusted out chargers on there rite now. everybody trying to cash out

[Lord Warlock]

I guess it would be a good time to buy parts cars then.  Get em while you can.  We already lost the salvage yards

[69DodgeCharger]

There are still some yards in the rust belt full of cars and parts, unfortunately the yard owners think that rust is a form of gold!

[h76]

Is there still big differences between value on 2nd gen regular chargers and R/T chargers in any condition. What is cheapest you could touch a complete project R/T car?Regular Charger?

[69DodgeCharger]

I think condition of the parts there (depending on how many) Might be a better indicator than if it is actually a real R/T or not. There are plenty of absolute "scab" R/T Chargers sitting in junkyards, garages and backyards all over, But are you willing to pay 5-7k for $200 worth of scrap metal? That's one question to be considered.

[6670charger]

That is a very good observation.  I can't believe how much these people want for a rusted out shell with absolutely nothing usable.  After paying $5-7K for it, and then paying another $75K to buy all the bits and pieces to rebuild it, and restore them, or have them restored, you might as well pay the other guy the $50K he wants for a decent complete car.

Not worth it any more.  I'm switching to something that the common man can afford.

[G Force]

I don't think its JUST supply and Demand. Everything has its cycles. For instance How interested are any of us Charger guys in lets say a 1927 ford with wood spoke wheels and a 4 cylinder engine?? That being said.. What percentage of the younger generations are going to be interested in a 1960,s car lets say in the year 2050,,  Whats you take??

[Ghoste]

Agreed.  It wasn't so very long ago that Corvettes and 57 Chevy's were the sales darlings.  Before that, guys were ponying up for something else.  Even Model T's had a following at one time and how many people are there restoring those now?
As for something more affordable, I thought I'd collect '59 Les Pauls but it turns out they aren't cheap either  (it's a guitar player joke btw)

[BigBlockSam]

'59 Les Pauls   

buy a chartger it's cheaper than a '59 Les Paul. 

[BigBlockSam]

what am i missing, check out this car. it has rotted out frame rails and look at the price

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&isfrommerc=1&itemcount=0&refitem=&refwidgettype=osi_widget&refwidgetloc=&item=330031885029&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A74&id=

[Charger Aficionado]

Buying on eBay is Stupid now.  Buying elsewhere... now...

Google the words:     craigslist  charger

See how many ads you come up with

[472 R/T SE]

Dodge Don's has a thread over on the '70 Registry on the market of '70's.

http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=613&start=0

[41husk]

55, 56 and 57 Chevy are still comanding pretty good cash!

[69DodgeCharger]

The 55-57 Chevy's are an icon in the Chevy world. I think they will always command a high value for the nice cars. The same way any "icon" car from any manufacturer will, but are Brand X people paying 5k+ for hunks of rusted metal with a few usable parts as seems to be the case with 2nd generation Chargers, 69's in particular. or are they just going with subpar models and converting them into what they want? This is easy when you own a Ford or Chevy. If you have a Mopar or AMC you are pretty much limited by the availability of what is left out there. All I can say is I'm glad I bought my 69 and got the parts for it when I did through the late 80's and 90's If you are just getting into the "game" now you are in for a rude awakening I think.

[Khyron]

Also agree - but still no one can give opinions/estimates of how these cars have appreciated over last couple of year?

here is a quick one. I bought mine for about $6,500, and 2 weeks ago got offered $15,000. I bought mine about 2 and a half years ago I believe.