Flush/fill that migrated into blown head gasket and plugged up radiator. Read on

[70charginglizard]

Im still gonna take those heads in to a machine shop and have them checked out anyway. Not worth the chance of missing something.
I'll show them the gaskets too and let um know what it was doing. But I really want to have those things checked out just in case.

[Steve P.]

It could be the flash, but it looks like #1 has some steam cleaning going on very close to the water mark on the head gasket..  Pics. can be great and difficult at the same time.. Take some shots of the heads also. Then carefullllllly lift off the head gaskets and shoot the block and the other side of the gaskets.

[Steve P.]

Im still gonna take those heads in to a machine shop and have them checked out anyway. Not worth the chance of missing something.
I'll show them the gaskets too and let um know what it was doing. But I really want to have those things checked out just in case.

ABSOLUTELY............... NO QUESTION.....

[70charginglizard]

It could be the flash, but it looks like #1 has some steam cleaning going on very close to the water mark on the head gasket..  Pics. can be great and difficult at the same time.. Take some shots of the heads also. Then carefullllllly lift off the head gaskets and shoot the block and the other side of the gaskets.

Here ya go Steve.

block side of the head gasket,

a shot of the head there

and a shot of the block there with the head gasket removed.

I think your right.

[Steve P.]

Yeah Kelly, I think you have found the culprit. Get a known good straight edge on that block. Use a small flash light, like a MAG LIGHT, and shine it across the block behind the straight edge. If you can see light under the straight edge you will probably want to pull the motor and have it decked. I use a sharp steel rule. Let's hope this is all in the head.

Get the heads into the machine shop and have them show you on another block exactly how to check your block.

Also, when you put the motor back together, get ARP head bolts and follow their install directions to the "T".. Make sure you are using a very good torque wrench. Non of this needle type crap!!  Done right you will be in great shape.

Once you are up and running again, get the car off to someone that can welt a short bolt to that stripped drain plug and get it out of there. I use brass plugs or petcocks. Cheap petcocks are not the way to go. Make sure if you go that rout you use a quality petcock.

Good luck bro.. Let us know how you make out..

[firefighter3931]

It could be the flash, but it looks like #1 has some steam cleaning going on very close to the water mark on the head gasket..  Pics. can be great and difficult at the same time.. Take some shots of the heads also. Then carefullllllly lift off the head gaskets and shoot the block and the other side of the gaskets.

Here ya go Steve.

block side of the head gasket,

a shot of the head there

and a shot of the block there with the head gasket removed.

I think your right.

Pic #2 is difinative proof in my mind that you had a gasket failure. I doubt you cracked the head but have them pressure tested anyway and have the deck surface of the heads measured for trueness....they might need a light pass to square up.

Also check the block deck surface as Steve mentioned. The Felpro composite gaskets are pretty forgiving so even if the deck isn't perfectly straight they will seal up fine.


Ron

[70charginglizard]

Yeah Kelly, I think you have found the culprit. Get a known good straight edge on that block. Use a small flash light, like a MAG LIGHT, and shine it across the block behind the straight edge. If you can see light under the straight edge you will probably want to pull the motor and have it decked. I use a sharp steel rule. Let's hope this is all in the head.

Get the heads into the machine shop and have them show you on another block exactly how to check your block.

Also, when you put the motor back together, get ARP head bolts and follow their install directions to the "T".. Make sure you are using a very good torque wrench. Non of this needle type crap!!  Done right you will be in great shape.

Once you are up and running again, get the car off to someone that can welt a short bolt to that stripped drain plug and get it out of there. I use brass plugs or petcocks. Cheap petcocks are not the way to go. Make sure if you go that rout you use a quality petcock.

Good luck bro.. Let us know how you make out..

I have ARP head bolts. Bought them brand new when I did the motor back in 2001. I can't re-use these?
Don't worry about the torque wrench. I have a very nice one.

Buy the looks of the rust, don't you think the problem lies at the head and not the block because when I pulled the gasket off the block it looked really good there no rust as opposed to the head interface. lots of rust. (see pictures) but that's kind of confusing as well because the gasket covers the water port in the block at that location so how could the other side where it meets the head have a problem? and why does the waterport not go up into the head there with a flow hole thru the gasket there??? Doesn't make since to me?

Also to note: I have all brass freeze plugs in there. Made sure of that when I did the motor and head as well. Prety sure those drain plugs are the same. I put some liquid wrench on it this morning and I'm going to make another attempt to get that thing out of there.

Thanks

[Steve P.]

I would say yes on the ARP bolts.  If the plugs you used in the block are brass you will not be able to weld to them. More than likely you will be able to get them out with a pair of vise grips. I hate to have to do that, but...... 

The question you raise about the port being blocked is a good one. I believe it's blocked to direct flow. I don't know that. I am guessing. I have a motor home block and heads here and I just went out to look at that system. They have additional water holes that ARE used. Strangely though, the same 2 lower ports were blocked on those gaskets..  (Somehow I have never posed that question before even though I have wondered about it myself).

And yes I do think your problem is in the gaskets. The head may be a bit warped or have slight corrosion in that area. Truing the heads is just plain a good idea regardless. The reason I say to check the block is quite simply because you are at that point and you're better off safe than sorry..  Like Ron said, you can probably get away with a slight deviation in the block. Problem is if you also have some deviation in the heads that DON'T correspond. Again, better safe than sorry..

[70charginglizard]

You know I really appreciate all this feedback from all of you guy's.
I hope you all know that.
Thanks!

[Steve P.]

You know I really appreciate all this feedback from all of you guy's.
I hope you all know that.
Thanks!

That's what we're here for bro....

[firefighter3931]

The question you raise about the port being blocked is a good one. I believe it's blocked to direct flow.

That is correct....some holes are blocked off to direct coolant to the back of the heads. 


Ron

[70charginglizard]

The question you raise about the port being blocked is a good one. I believe it's blocked to direct flow.

That is correct....some holes are blocked off to direct coolant to the back of the heads. 


Ron

So why didn't they just weld the blocks closed at those locations instead of depending on a risky piece of gasket that could potentially fail and cause a problem like I'm having now??? Just doesn't make any since. What a goofy design. Oh well, not much I can do about it hu. Were's my welder....lol

[MorePwr]

Looks like you found it, smart thinking getting the heads checked out. worth the piece of mind if nothing els.

I'm impressed with how clean your motor looks after four years, you did a great job sealing it up! Also, do you remember what brand of paint you used? it still looks good on the heads around the exhaust, where I've had trouble with discoloration.

Aaron

[Steve P.]

There are different configurations of heads that do use more or other passages. Industrial, marine and big motor home 440's use them. I have a motor home 440 with a set of (902) heads that have coolant passages all the way around the chamber. Still they made other heads that have a port for the water pump to pull water directly from the heads... I guess they figured why build multiple blocks when we can just change gaskets..  The thing is, if all surfaces are flat and true the gasket will hold for many years.

Also keep in mind that all car manufacturers build cars to last just so long. They want you to come buy a NEW CAR..  I read somewhere that todays headliners use a glue that is only supposed to last 6 to 7 years. That's just long enough for you to have paid off you car and have it slapping you in the head saying in a ghostly voice,(TIME TO BUY A NEW CAR)......

[70charginglizard]

I read somewhere that todays headliners use a glue that is only supposed to last 6 to 7 years. That's just long enough for you to have paid off you car and have it slapping you in the head saying in a ghostly voice,(TIME TO BUY A NEW CAR)......

lol I had a Laser that actually did that. Irritated the crap out of me...so I sold it and bought another charger. 

had to get rid of that later though. couldn't afford two projects. 

I got get me a set of those 902 heads. More water flow to the heads.... cooler temperatures.... sounds good to me. 

another thing worth mensioning. I tried calling the machine shop that plained and built those 906's back in 2001 and the numbers disconnected. Out of business. Go figure. Why doesn't that suprise me. 

I found another shop that said they can test the heads and resurface them for me for 180 bucks total for the pair. EXCELLANT
I told them where I had them done origially and they said that they know for a fact that that place didn't have very good surfacing equiptment. There's is way better. 

[Steve P.]

Kelly, I don't know much about the 902 heads, but I don't think you will get better cooling with them unless you have a block that is drilled for the added ports. I've heard them referred to as (STEAM PORTS).

[70charginglizard]

Well I got um done and back.
Pressure test checked out fine. No cracks in the heads what so ever. 
180 + tax total for testing and decking both.
now all I gotta do is get the gaskets to show up and get everything back together.
They did tell me that the driver side head was out of flush. They could see it after the first run. All fixed now.
Ain't they just a thing of beauty??

[firefighter3931]

Well I got um done and back.
Pressure test checked out fine. No cracks in the heads what so ever. 

See, all that worry for nuthin !  I've said previously in this thread that the head gasket was the most likely cause of this overheating issue.  All i'll say is that i'm glad i was right and you were wrong 

Take your time puttin her back together and remember to lube the threads on the headbolts so that the proper torque value is applied. Use the felpro 1215 intake gasket to block off the heat crossover with Permatex "Ultra Copper" around the ports and end rails of the valley pan.

The heads do look good !  Did the shop tell you how much they removed ?


Ron

[Steve P.]

GREAT..   Very happy to hear it.. Now get it all back together and you'll be in great shape. Well,, except for the .................   Jk...   

Don't forget about the exhaust manifold bolts getting sealer....

No beer till it's all done and tested..   

[MorePwr]

Isn't anyone gonna suggest "Match porting" the intake gasket?

[Steve P.]

NO...

[70charginglizard]

See, all that worry for nuthin !  I've said previously in this thread that the head gasket was the most likely cause of this overheating issue.  All i'll say is that i'm glad i was right and you were wrong 

Take your time puttin her back together and remember to lube the threads on the headbolts so that the proper torque value is applied. Lube??? Don't you mean anti seeze coat them? thats what the mopar big block mopar engine book (the bible) says.


Use the felpro 1215 intake gasket is that the felpro (FPP-1215) summit sells because thats what I've ordered for that as well as there full gasket set FEL-KS2110. Should arrive by Thur or Fri. to block off the heat crossover with Permatex "Ultra Copper" around the ports and end rails of the valley pan.so you just spray the valey pan right? not the head. You have to seal around the ports on the head and on the block across the end rail surfaces.

The heads do look good !  I agree. Much better than they did back in 2001 before I had them done and put them on the first time. I don't even think they decked them. Even though they told me that they did. Could have fooled me. See attached pic from 2001.
Did the shop tell you how much they removed ? No, I forgot to ask. I'll have to call them back tomarrow and ask them that question and document.

Ron

[Steve P.]

They look cleaned, not cut.. I'm sure these will do well for you and you will feel better knowing they are done right..

[firefighter3931]

Lube??? Don't you mean anti seeze coat them? thats what the mopar big block mopar engine book (the bible) says.


so you just spray the valey pan right? not the head. You have to seal around the ports on the head and on the block across the end rail surfaces

Either oil or ARP lube should be used with the arp headbolts. I've never used anti-sieze on headbolts. 

The permatex ultra copper i am describing comes in a tube and is a silicone....not a spray. Do both sides of the turkey pan around the ports and on the underside of the endrails. Put a dab of silicone in each corner of the endrail.


Ron

[70charginglizard]

Machine shop was telling me not to forget to re-torque the head bolts after 1000 miles. Gonna be difficult to get 1000 miles that quickly with winter rolling in.
I'm trying to decided if I want to hold off putting my freshly cleaned up and painted original valve covers back on till them. I have a set of Chrome after market valve covers I could use till that point. What do you guys think? That and a set of crappy valve cover gaskets that I don't really care much about.


and do any of you guys know when torqing the head bolts if the sequence matters from front to back.
The torque diagram I have shows the sequence but doesn't show a fowd to aft or aft to forward direction on the head.
Anyone know the answer to that?