I did it, what have I done? EFI 440

[dkn1997]

I just bought the 440 MPFI manifold from member defiance off of ebay.  I think I got a good deal considering what it costs to buy a manifold, injectors, and having said manifold altered for EFI.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=180024341413&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Now comes the fun part, Computer, harness, fuel pump, etc......  I am pretty stoked anyway.  I used to run a Holley Projection and I really liked the part throttle response and I did put that in myself, so I dont' think that this system will be beyond me and I can visit the efi boards when I am ready to jump off a bridge...

wish me luck

[rt green]

pretty cool! love to hear how fast and smooth it is when you get it dialed in.

[Shakey]

Document it all on this site with text and photos - from purchase to start up so others can learn from your accomplishments.

Best of luck.

Looking forward to it - 

[dkn1997]

Thanks for the kind words.  It will take a fair amount of time, but will take pics of all......

[hotrod98]

I've seen a couple of the six pack efi setups lately. Would love to do that to my six pack motor. Thought seriously about going efi on my 426 as well. I love driving my wife's efi 360 cuda. Keep us up to date. You might see more interest here than you realize.

[Johnny SixPack]

Document it all on this site with text and photos - from purchase to start up so others can learn from your accomplishments.

Best of luck.

Looking forward to it - 

Definitely lookin' forward to the install and results!

[Johnny SixPack]

I've seen a couple of the six pack efi setups lately. Would love to do that to my six pack motor.

That's my desire too. 

When the 496 stroker in my "70 gets swapped into my "69 I'm hopin' to go that route.

Any info you have on them would be greatly appreciated.

This is the only link I have:

http://www.fbthrottlebodies.com/index.htm

They haven't updated the EFI 6-pack info for awhile though IIRC.

[Silver R/T]

good deal, its gonna be good setup if you go forced induction in future

[tan top]

good luck (dkn1997) with the conversion , it would be awesome if you could keep us updated with pictures & infomation as you progress 

[NYCMille]

Cool Kev - should be really cool when it's done.

[defiance]

wow, that 440 6-pack setup looks pretty neat!  I'm actually going to do a dual-quad setup on my new engine build myself (which is why I sold all this stuff), but unfortunately, that'll probably be 3-4 months down the road (starting with the bottom of the motor and moving my way up as money allows).  I'm excited to see my stuff go to good use 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Hey man...    I feel your pain....       here's my set up currently....      Aeromotive fuel pump and filter should be here end of the week....       stroker is almost together....      nice to see my plan actually comming together. 

[1fine69]

damn that is super nice. it looks pretty cool. keep us posted on how it works. hope you do something different with the air cleaner though i seen a supercharged challenger like that and the motor was awesome  but looked "wimpy" when it came to the air cleaner!

[dkn1997]

I plan on using my stock 68 unsilenced on it. I ran a stock dual snorkel on my old projection and since this is the same throttle body, then it should all be good.  I will paint the rails black and try to hide the wiring as much as possible.

[defiance]

That edelbrock setup is pretty nice...

Have they started selling the manifold alone, though?  I know before I had mine modded, I called them every month for a year and they said no...

I know it's nice to sell a big EFI kit, but come on, they could charge ridiculous prices for just the EFI manifold and still sell it like mad...  I'd have bought it before I gave up and had it machined...

Oh well.

[dkn1997]

something else to chew on:

http://www.holley.com/534-183.asp

[Rolling_Thunder]

That edelbrock setup is pretty nice...

Have they started selling the manifold alone, though?  I know before I had mine modded, I called them every month for a year and they said no...

I know it's nice to sell a big EFI kit, but come on, they could charge ridiculous prices for just the EFI manifold and still sell it like mad...  I'd have bought it before I gave up and had it machined...

Oh well.

to answer your question...      no they have not stated selling the intake...   I know someone at edelbrock so i managed to get one before they are released....           that is not the Edelbrock EFI kit...      it is an MSD throttle body, Victor 440 EFI intake, Edelbrock fuel rails, Accel 36lb/hr injectors, and I just recieved my Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump...     

[defiance]

Aaaaaahh.....  I recognized the intake and rails from the kit and just ASSumed

[dkn1997]

I wonder if I will have any problems with this being a dual plane manifold....with the air distribution.....probably not.
maybe I can mill down the divider plate? 

[gb70]

I have EFI on a Ray Barton 528 Hemi in my '70 Cuda that I bought from Matt Delaney back in '99.  Matt was running a 1,000 cfm throttle body with Accels Gen6 software.  I upgraded to Gen7, and changed the throttle body with a 1,250 cfm.  What a difference.  The software has come a very long ways over recent years.  I can get about 15 mpg on this BIG 528 due to the fuel effiecitancy of the EFI.  I run the software via my onboard lap top to monitor the vitals.  A/F is perect @13.5 to 1 constantly.  The other added benifets of an EFI is if the weather changes, humidity, gian or loss in elevation, it all does not matter, the software measures and adjust every milisecond.  The real trick is the calibration.  I do not claim to be an expert in the field and have no certificates of classes to speak of.  I used a guy that does this for a living.  I can PM or email anyone interested in his services.  He is out of Diamond Springs, Ca.  The company is called Auto Trend Diagnostics.  Dave is the owner.  He establishes proper tuning at all degrees of (WOT) open throtte.  Then downloads the results and fine tunes again to perfection.  Once it is dialed, your dialed in. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

I wonder if I will have any problems with this being a dual plane manifold....with the air distribution.....probably not.
maybe I can mill down the divider plate? 

I doubt you will have problems with the dual plane...       the reason why most EFI intakes are single planes is because you do not loose the bottom end torque like you would with a carb set up...    there is no fuel delivery problems...     the single plane does retain the high RPM HP...     again without the side effects of lost low end torque....       


in short the duel plane might give up a little top end - but on a street car when is it ever at WOT for more than 5 seconds at a time ?

[68ChargerJMP]

Have you looked into the Megasquirt stuff? Ive read of  people running it with great results. You can buy it built or build the ECU yourself for $200-$400 or so depending on which way you want it. You still have to round up your stuff like rails, injectors, etc... ,but you save a couple of grand compared to buying a BS3,Accel, or Electromotive ECU.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Have you looked into the Megasquirt stuff? Ive read of  people running it with great results. You can buy it built or build the ECU yourself for $200-$400 or so depending on which way you want it. You still have to round up your stuff like rails, injectors, etc... ,but you save a couple of grand compared to buying a BS3,Accel, or Electromotive ECU.

that has been my plan all along...    Megasquirt with a router box to make it fully sequential and EDIS

[defiance]

Ooooooooo router board 

[dkn1997]

I started reading lot's of mega squirt stuff and I saw that that router board may be ready to go in late 2006, which would mean soon...I made a partial shopping list.  this does not include the ECU or fuel pump, but most of the little stuff.  I am not into assembling the ECU, and don't want to make my wireing from scratch so....

DIYAUTOTUNE

        Descr/pn#                                     qty        price

1.  GM closed element CLT/IAT Sensor With Pigtail   2   $16.50
      one for Iat, one for Coolant temp.               
2.  Megasquirt-I or II relay cable                    1      $70.00
3.  TPS Pigtail (tps-3_piggy)                       1      $ 7.00
4.  Fuel injector connector (injconn-Bos)            8         $ 4.50
5.  Megasquirt wiring bundle-2'long (sm-wirebund)   1   $12.00





GLEN'S GARAGE

2.  900-2112  Relay Board                     1     $89.00
3.  670-0003  Relay Board Case                   1   $15.00


This is my first stab at it, so feel free to pick it apart and let me know if any of this is unnecessary, or if I missed a bunch of stuff.

Also, found an old laptop on a shelf in my bedroom, it was one from my wife's old job, they were upgrading and told her to keep it. It runs it's a thinkpad that runs windows 95, so it should be pretty good.

[defiance]

Where are you mounting your air temp sensor?  I used a closed element gm on mine at first, just mounted in the bottom of the air cleaner, but I ended up constantly getting IAT heat soak.  Switched to the open element for air and it worked fine that way.

On the other hand if you've got a cold air intake or something non-metal that you're mounting it in, closed may be ok.

The relay board is a great idea if you don't want to do a bunch of in-depth wiring.  In all honesty I kinda wish I'd have done without it because I ended up doing a lot of really detailed wiring and could have probably made something that didn't stand out as much, but I've rewired 95% of my car or so at this point, so wiring is something I really don't mind doing  

Yeah, the megatune software is very easy to run; I ran it on a P2-300 for a while.

[dkn1997]

I was planning on running it in the bottom of my stock 68 unsilenced. I was going to dril a hole in it, and a nut from the inside to hold it.

I was going with closed type because I read that you only need the open type for forced induction. 

Also, I have pretty much decided to run Megasquirt I v3.0.  I saw that protocar.net has a preassembled MSI v3.0 for $275.00.  Have you ever heard anything about these guys?

That woudl put my whole setup at just over 900 bucks.  then I have to by the fuel pump, but I am planning on the walbro 255 which is not going to break the bank either.  I am lucky in that my fuel system already has a return line with EFI rated hose from my projcetion days, I even installed a return bung into the filler neck that's connected to my old 5/16 stock line.

Man, I cannot wait to get started on this.  I have not been this excited since the day my Ebay used analog Projection came in the mail 5 years ago

[dkn1997]

my new personal plate:   

EFI 440
INJEKTED
FUELI440

[Rolling_Thunder]

less than $900 ?    wow...    you suck...       I have over $1500 in mine already....                 then again...     I will be runnning alot of exotic bits and pieces on it...       overkill to say the least...      fuel line will be 1/2" stainless...    the A1000 fuel pump flows 96gph @45psi so fuell should be flowing fromt the heavens...     return line will be 3/8" stainless...      air filter wise I will be going with a drop base (to fit the victor under the hood) with a K&N top and filter...           I'm going with the MSII v3.0...    overkill again...    but along with the DIS stuff it should be a pretty tunable set-up.

[dkn1997]

less than $900 ?    wow...    you suck...       I have over $1500 in mine already....               

Well, I would say lucky more than suck 

1.  You just know it won't be 900 when it's all said and done...what is it they say about the "well laid plans of Mice and men?"  something will surely rear its ugly head and bit me square in the ass on this deal.  (like I have not bought a fuel pump yet, and If I decide on a wideband O2, all bets are off, it just went to 1500!!)

2.  I am also not fueling a real big HP motor either.  YOu mentioned stroker, so I assume you are building a pretty stout motor.  I think EFI works just like a carb in one respect.  The more HP you make, the more it costs.

3.  None of this would be possible if I did not get a deal from defiance on the man/tb/rails/iac/injector/tps.   figure at least 125-175 to buy a used manifold (current performer RPM I run not necessary and kills hood clearance as it is)  another 300 to have it modified, buy injectors (50 each, so that's another 400.00) then the rails, and the TB.  the cheapest TB I have seen, and one that has TPS and IAC is the autonomics one, which, with those two mods is about 200(that's not even considering buying the actual Iac and TPS, autonomics charges you just to mod the TB to accept them, you have to provide them or pay extra)  So that would be at least a grand to get me where I am now if I had to buy all of that stuff. 

Also, when it's all done, I can recoup some of the cost by selling my performer RPM manifold and 750 mighty demon carb.  maybe 150 for the manifold and 350 for the carb.  so when it's all said and done, I may have done the "switch" for about 600 bucks. 

If you had time to scrounge, the average person could really find ways to save some bucks doing this.  Like have your manifold drilled, but you buy the bungs and epoxy in, better yet, get the specs, find a buddy with a drill press and make a jig.  I would think that used injectors would not be that bad, although for a big block, you would have a limited choice of port injectors at the boneyard,   Make your own harness from scratch, build your own ECU, buy someone elses on the bag who gave up on the project. 

What i really like is that if I get this to work, I have room for future upgrades like E heads, hotter cam, I will be looking at adjusting the tune and probably bigger fuel pump/injectors. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well...     to be honest all the parts cost around $1500 if bought new....        I fibbed a bit..   

-MSD throttle body including IAC and TPS sensors (unused in box)  $400 (E-bay)   
-IAT $15.88 (summit)
-injector clips $13.88 (summit)
-ECT sensor $10.88 (summit)
-Accel 36 lb/hr injectors (new in boxes) $200  (craigslist)
-Edelbrock Victor 440 EFI intake  $free    (Edelbrock Sales)
-Edelbrock Fuel rail kit for above $free     (Edelbrock Sales)
-Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump $180    (E-bay)


So all together I have  ~$820...    but this was simply because I found good deals on things...    the intake and fuel rails are what saved me big time on costs...     I did just buy about $300 in AN fittings, 1/2" stainless tubing, tubing bender for 1/2" stainless, flaring tool for stainless tubing (37* flare for AN)....      so this stuff is adding up quickly...     

battery cable I got...     is teflon coated cable...     $22.00/ft...


I really should have bought a Honda...         

[dkn1997]

yeah, you will be in it for 2 grand before you can say boo!

[Rolling_Thunder]

yeah, you will be in it for 2 grand before you can say boo!

yeah....       it sucks...    buy oh well...       should be fun to mess around with.

[defiance]

It most definitely is fun 

[dkn1997]

a little treat arrived today.  got my megasquirt I V3.0 with megasquirtnspark extra software loaded on.  Now I need wiring, sensors, relay box and fuel pump, then the wrenching can begin!!!

I still have no idea how to work this thing. I do have definiance's fuel map, so that's a start, but I have no idea how to get it loaded onto my controller.  I am so lame!!