New build smoking badly???????

[deputycrawford]

I put my 383 back in my car. The rings had around 2000 ish miles on them. One ring was broken during the rebuild. He ordered the new one and gapped it. The rings are "Zero Gap" from  Total Seal. The heads were ported slighty more than the last time I had It built. Most of the work to the heads this time was un shrouding the valves and the heavier valve springs. The problem is it smokes. All the time. It farts out quite a cloud at start up. Smokes lightly while idling and part throttle. After a good stint on the expressway at 3500 rpms, it smokes badly during deceleration. It has the PCV installed and is baffled. They are the stock valve covers. The oil does not seem burnt. The oil on the dipstick doesn't seem to disappear that fast either. It just smokes all the time. Would re intalled rings need to re seat? Would Rotella oil be the cause of the rings not wanting to take hold? Would extra oil in the heads not drain fast enough and fall into the valve seat area and into the combustion chambers? Help? It runs VERY good though.

[BLACKWOLF]

if its white smoke. sounds like me you may have a warped head or a bad head gasket. does it get hot or push water out of the filler neck?

[BLACKWOLF]

do a compression check and check your plugs.

[BrianShaughnessy]

I built a 350 chebbie with those rings for my 89 Formula.    I'll never use them again. 
They might be ok for a race motor but I think they suffer from ring flutter. 
I had the motor honed w/ 280 grit like the instruction say, broke it in right, blah blah blah and it's always sucked oil. 
Rotella is fine for breakin.   It's the full synthetics you have to avoid. 

[deputycrawford]

Not white smoke. Deffinately smells of oil. Does not get hot or push water. Runs really good. Starts quickly and can idle for long periods without getting hot or loading up. Teriffic throttle response all the time. Great part throttle driving manners. Just smokes. My next build will go back to normal rings. I will do a compression check but my plugs look great.

[dodge freak]

This might not be it-but after I change my oil filter some oil drips on the end of the header , I wipe it off but when I go drive it smoke pours out in back for 2 mins just like its burning oil . The oil burns off the pipe and it sure the heck looks like its burning oil . Just a thought , make sure you don't have some oil dripping on the exhaust pipe.

If thats not it , I would put that VR racing oil in it but 30 weight straight and just drive it for a while. Hope some green lover cop doesn't pull in back of you.

[deputycrawford]

Not oil change drips. It smokes the whole time its running. Both banks seem to smoke. It does have an X-pipe but both pipes smoke evenly.

[dodge freak]

Well you could do a compression test and after add a little oil in the cyc. to see if the compression goes up. If it does not maybe your intake is sucking up some oil from the bottom. You did say you had the heads ported more any chance the ports at the intake gasket were too big ?

[firefighter3931]

I've heard the same thing about total seal gapless rings that Brian Shaunessey described. It's not the Rotella. Oil could be leaking through the intake ports or the PCV could be bad.


Ron

[deputycrawford]

The PCV is about one season old and seems to move easily when shaken. I don't know how to test those PCV's. When I use heavy throttle and open the hood afterward, I have the valve cover filter on the driver's side seems to  push its way out of it seated position. If I drive it like I stole it, will the rings seat? Is it too late for these rings? What rings should I use if I pull it again and have a nervous breakdown? Do I sell it cheap and pay off some bills? I can't begin to explain how disappointed I am with this engine.

[deputycrawford]

What would be wrong with the intake? It went on without a problem and the engine idles great without any vacum leaks etc. The only thing I have to say is the .545 hydraulic cam had almost 11 inches vacum at idle. The new .575 solid has 9 to 10 inches of vacum at idle. Shouldn't make that much difference.

[greenpigs]

Have you done a leak down test on the rings?

I understand it is a fresh build but they should all be close regardless if it is new.

I guess putting standard rings on is out of the question, it would still be cheaper than starting a whole new build on a 440.

[Chryco Psycho]

it could be leaking between the head & intake too

[deputycrawford]

Chryco, i've been told by more than one person in town about the intake to head seal. I have never had to use anything on the valley pan. I, of course, didn't use anything again. I will paint up a new one and use sealant this time. I can only hope that is my problem. I should have it done in a couple of days and get back to all of you. I found out my machinist used brand new Perfect Circle seals on the heads again. That shold not be the problem but I will not take it for granted if the valley pan does not fix it.

[dodge freak]

I doubt its the valve seals . Hate to say this but with your beather being push out after a drive it sounds like ring blow by. Unless its just on loose and the motor is shaking it off. A leak down test might tel you for sure if its the rings, you be able to see  it on a gauge and hear them leaking though the oil fill hole.

[firefighter3931]

It farts out quite a cloud at start up.

This is a typical symptom of bad valve seals. You stated that the machinist installed new seals on the heads so pull the valvecovers and make sure that they're all in place.

How do the plugs look....are they oil fouled at all ?

On the intake gasket install ; i use permatex ultra copper around the ports on both sides of the gasket. Just snug it down and allow it to cure overnight then torque to 25ftlbs the next day.

A leakdowm test wouldn't hurt just to see what the ring seal is like.



Ron

[deputycrawford]

Firefighter. I am going to check the seals, but I remember the car smokes very noticeably during deceleration after high engine speeds. It seems smoke the most in high vacum situations. I guess I can't rule out the rings. I will change the oil to have the anti foam additives. Then change the valley pan with the Ultra Copper, which I do have in the garage. A compression check, to see what cylinder pressures I'm dealing with. Then a leak down. I have also been told to run it gently to around 6000 rpms in first gear, then slap the throttle closed and run it all the way down to almost idle at closed throttle. If I do this multiple times, it is supposed to help force the rings to seal. What do you think anybody? I guess I just have to go one step at a time.

[deputycrawford]

Ok, pulled the intake and found oil everywhere. Not huge amounts, but dripping from everything. I painted another valley pan, cleaned and dried all surfaces and reinstalled with silicone stuff. It should fix it. I will still do a compression test and maybe a leak down. I am curious. Thanks for all the info. I will get back to you.

[dodge freak]

Cool you might have found it--I always though silicone and gas was a no-no. Well it should last longer enough for you to find out.

[firefighter3931]

Ok, pulled the intake and found oil everywhere. Not huge amounts, but dripping from everything. I painted another valley pan, cleaned and dried all surfaces and reinstalled with silicone stuff. It should fix it. I will still do a compression test and maybe a leak down. I am curious. Thanks for all the info. I will get back to you.

Hopefully that fixes the problem. It sure sounds like oil was making it's way into the combustion chamber and it really doesn't take much of it to create a cloud out the tailpipes. I would be surprised if it was the rings because it ran fine before w/o the mosquito fogger symptoms. The only intangible was the new ring that was installed by the machinist upon re-assembly....but that should be well seated by now. Let us know how it turns out. 


Ron

[deputycrawford]

Well, the valley pan fixed worked great at first. About 45 minutes into my parts runs around town, it started doing the same thing. The intake is suspect now. Nothing has changed, the heads have not been shaved any more and the intake hasn't been touched. This is getting crazy.

[dodge freak]

Well I know nothing that much about the big blocks but on my small block I had kind of the same problem-just not as much smoke-I don't think. Anyways I got a lifter valley tray to keep the oil away from the manifold and went with fel-pro print -o-seal gasket. I wiped the manifold and head down with brake cleaner and put something like hi-tack on the head to help seal it. It look like hi-tack but it was for airplanes-the small private ones, I got it at my tool shop. It worked great. Now if -it sounds like thats a metal gasket , that might not do it. Look if fel-pro makes a gasket for it. I always hear that silicone breaks down with gasoline but I would have thought it take a few weeks. Maybe your manifold or head is warp.

[dodge freak]

Well at least you know its not the rings.    You get it straighten out now that you know what the problem is.

[Chryco Psycho]

order a 1214 /1215 intake pan with the paper gaskets & use a pair of the paper gaskets between the pan & head & reseal the intake again , do not use the second set of gaskets above the pan or it will be virtually impossible to start the intake bolts

[firefighter3931]

order a 1214 /1215 intake pan with the paper gaskets & use a pair of the paper gaskets between the pan & head & reseal the intake again , do not use the second set of gaskets above the pan or it will be virtually impossible to start the intake bolts

and use the ultra copper silicone to seal it up.

Ron