Is it really bad to leve out you thermostate?

[mikes68charger]

My charger kept overheating 245 + after driving for 15 min or so. So I put my electric fan on the puller side of the radiator and this did not help, My hoses were warm but not hot, I ran it without the radiator cap to release any air bubbles and it still overheated. I pulled out the thermostat and the hots it got was 190 and ran about 160 when cruising. I drove it for 30 min with no problems. ( which is the longest I have every driven my baby  ) should I even put one back in or just leave it out. What temp range should I install ? what is the Ideal temp to run anyway?

[charger Downunder]

Check your thermostate by boiling it in a pot on the stove and see if it opens. i use a 180 thermostate,Radiator core cold be partly blocked.

[Chryco Psycho]

 if ti si working you can do it , usually it will run hotter without a T stat  if the T stat is working correctly

[deputycrawford]

my opininon is to run a 180 thermastat. No thermastat wil not slow down the coolant in the radiator and It will actually run hotter. Check all the hoses for wear and put it back together. From the sounds of it you had a stuck thermastat.

[grouseman]

Classic case of a bad 'stat.  Run a 180 minimum.  If the hottest it got was 190, you're in not bad shape. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

here in CA we just run a restrictor plate...      no T-stats here

[RD]

i run all (but my neon) without a thermostat during the summer and have never, ever had a overheating problem.  Did I say ever? Yep, ever.  Matter of fact, during the 100 degree stint of weather we had in august, my 318 truck had to fight to get to the 2nd bar on my temperature gauge.  That is the highest it has ever had gotten too.  The temperature that day?  109 degrees fahrenheit.

I have to put in a thermostate in the next 3 weeks (which I will change out my coolant also) in order for my vehicle to even warm up during this time of year.  that is on a 318 4bbl 81 pickup and a 87 ramcharger with a 400 4bbl.  Both have fans, fan shrouds, and no coolant leaks.

[grouseman]

RD, you are actually doing harm to your engine by running it so cool all the time.  Not to mention reduced mileage.  The engine should be running 180 MINIMUM. 

[RD]

RD, you are actually doing harm to your engine by running it so cool all the time.  Not to mention reduced mileage.  The engine should be running 180 MINIMUM. 

define harm.  I get around 16-17mpg with 3.55's in a 1981 dodge pickup.  318/4bbl to boot.  Should I be getting better gas mileage than that?

[grouseman]

The mpg improvement will be there; no way to tell if you'll get 1, 2, or 3 or more mpg.  If you've got an EFI system, the temp sensor is telling the computer to enrich the A/F mix; it's like your choke is partially closed all the time.  If you've a carb and the choke is coming off, there won't be as much mpg improvement as long as you're getting good vapourization from the heated crossover on the intake floor.  Then again, you're already bringing in 100ºF air.  Also, your oil is not getting to the proper temperature to evaporate moisture that develops in the crankcase, so you either need to change oil more frequently or you're going to increase your sludge buildup.  Finally, your engine was built with design tolerances expecting the engine to run at 195 or so.  If you are running at 120 or 130 or whatever, you could be generating more blowby, and/or more wear because of dissimilar metal expansion rates like with aluminum pistons and iron cylinder walls. 

Do a google for oil & engine operating temps, engine wear, etc.  The research is out there. 

You can at least rest assured knowing that your cooling system is performing great.  Even if you do put in a 195 'stat, your engine will NEVER overheat.  You've also disproven the myth that running no 'stat will allow the engine coolant to run through the radiator too fast, not giving it time to blow off heat, thereby causing overheating. 

[RD]

thanks for the info.  learn something new everyday!

[daytonalo]

All cars will run far cooler without a stat , including new cars . The efi will make it run richer which will give approx 20 horse , ask any tuner guy . As far as older cars go as long as your cooling system 100% , running a engine @ 150 will do no harm , and it is true you will have to change oil more  often , engine life will be greatly increased ! I run a 540 CI ,600Hp in my offshore race boat , and I run no stat with fresh water cooling and , it runs 130 all day and  I have to date 300 HOURS AND I RUN THIS ENGINE 90%OF THE TIME @ 5500 RPM ! Heat is the biggest cause of engine failure along with that comes elevated oil temp with is a death sentence for any engine . you heard me 5500 90% of the total time on this engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ghoste]

Boat engines don't use a radiator though do they?  (it's not sarcasm, it's a serious question btw)

[694spdRT]

Boat engines don't use a radiator though do they?  (it's not sarcasm, it's a serious question btw)

Our inboard uses a 800 acre radiator that is about 25 feet deep.   

[73Charger]

I have run colder stats on summer only cars that you don't care about heat in - 160 degree.  Ofcourse, I'm not sure if the temp makes a difference on the type of block...

[daytonalo]

One has to remember what increased engine temp means , higher oil temp ,which Leeds to lower lift rates on a hyd camshaft .

[Rolling_Thunder]

but also keep in mind guys - engines have to run a a set degree - otherwise thermal variance in the blockwill cause the bores to wear quicker....                                               so im told -  anyone wanna tell me im wrong ?

[daytonalo]

Again I have three seasons , and over 260 hour and I run this engine @ 5000 rpm 95 % of the time . Thats 5000 not 500 . They want car engines to run warmer so they can run cleaner , but that is bad for performance and longevity . I  have been doing this for twenty years , and wouldn't have it any other way , I just wanted some of your experiences , not speculation !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[grouseman]

Here's some more information for people to read up on regarding oil, engine temp, longevity, and performance. 

http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/_cool3.html

[PocketThunder]

Here's some more information for people to read up on regarding oil, engine temp, longevity, and performance. 

http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/_cool3.html

that was good reading.  i learn something new everyday from the people on this website...

[Steve P.]

All cars will run far cooler without a stat , including new cars . The efi will make it run richer which will give approx 20 horse , ask any tuner guy . As far as older cars go as long as your cooling system 100% , running a engine @ 150 will do no harm , and it is true you will have to change oil more  often , engine life will be greatly increased ! I run a 540 CI ,600Hp in my offshore race boat , and I run no stat with fresh water cooling and , it runs 130 all day and  I have to date 300 HOURS AND I RUN THIS ENGINE 90%OF THE TIME @ 5500 RPM ! Heat is the biggest cause of engine failure along with that comes elevated oil temp with is a death sentence for any engine . you heard me 5500 90% of the total time on this engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are not comparing apples to apples. Your off shore boat has 998 gazzzzzzilion gallons of water that is under 140 degrees. A car has a few gallons. If you DON"T run a t-stat in a car it will not run cool. It will for a while, yes. The tuners you are talking about are running down a 1/4 mile strip. Then they shut them off till cool again for the next round. You go right ahead and try to run any car without a stat on a average temp day. Stop at a few lights and wait for a few school buses. See how far you get before you over heat or worse, blow a motor.  Cars that are strictly for racing 1/8th mile or 1/4 mile can get away with it depending on how much heat they make and how long they have to wait to make their pass.   A street driven car WILL NOT keep from overheating during daily average use.

Mike, your answer is YES. It IS bad to leave out your T-Stat..  Grouseman posted from CARNUT. This is just one test done. Over the years there have been many and they all end up with the same results. 180* stat is the best for most cases.

[daytonalo]

The hotter the better ! Get water temp to 220 and oil temp to 300 , and the fun begins !

[Steve P.]

The hotter the better ! Get water temp to 220 and oil temp to 300 , and the fun begins !

No one is saying, (THE HOTTER THE BETTER). No one want their water temps at 220.. That's normally the point were things start to really go bad.  Your comments here could really be confusing.  Many people here have never experienced a blown motor or cracked head or even know where to begin looking for an overheating problem. Your experience with OFF SHORE RACING is an entirely different ball park.  There is no way you are running your car or truck WITHOUT a T-STAT..... Not in traffic..

I spent many years working on cars for a living. To tell people it's OK or even better for them to not run a thermostat  is ludicrous...   

Like I said before, your off shore boat has an ocean of water under 100* to cool your engine. Cars only have a small radiator with a few gallons of water to cool their engine. Without a thermostat to stop and hold water in the radiator, the fan cannot cool the hot water running through it fast enough.

[firefighter3931]

Thermostats are a necessity on any street driven car, inmo. If the cooling system is working prioperly then the stat will regulate the temps. I've seen a few super efficient aluminum rad cars that ran at 140* w/o a stat which is too cool...at least for my liking. Those cars ran better at 160* from what i remember.

A race boat with a million gallon rad is a whole bunch different than a closed 3 gallon water/coolant system that is operating under pressure. I wholeheartedly agree with Steve on that one. 


Ron

[Ghoste]

That's kind of why I was scratching my head over the boat radiator question when I asked it.

[Steve P.]

That's kind of why I was scratching my head over the boat radiator question when I asked it.

Actually,,,, bigger boats do use something similar to a radiator. It's called a (heat exchanger). Same idea as a rad. but instead of using air over the coils like our cars, it is built like a rad. with a vessel around it. Instead of air rushing around the tubes it use fresh or salt water to flow around the tubes. This exchanges the heat to water taken from the lake or ocean.  By the way, they use thermostats too.....

[daytonalo]

wow . thanks for the tip !!!!!!!!!! Ive been boating for thirty years , and have probaly replaced more heat exgangers than you can imagine !

[daytonalo]

one more

[Ghoste]

I don't know, I think I'll just stick to land.  I have enough trouble figuring out and paying for that.

[Steve P.]

Daytonalo.. What is your problem??  Do you think your experience with your boat is the only way in the world? I was in the Navy and working on main engines, evaporators, genorators, every type of pump you can think of, hot water tanks, steam driven and electric pumps and emergency diesel genorators. I have letters of commendation from the captains of both ships I was on for work above and beyond. I'm not trying to lay my crank out on the table, but for cripes sake, take a pill!!!! Look a bit farther than the little world you live in.. It's nice that you have a boat and that you work on it. Great!! This is a CAR forum and beyond that a pretty decent family of people from all over the world. Everyone here is appreciated and we take care of our own. That being said, I would really appreciate it if you would spend your energy here with consideration of others. Many here are learning from these posts. One of our main objectives is to keep others from making mistakes that some of us have made or seen in the past.

I'm sure we would all like to hear about your boat, but that would go in the OFF TOPIC area.

[daytonalo]

Sounds like someone needs a hug !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve P.]

Nope. No hugs needed here.

[daytonalo]

Hey cupcake , I have contributed a great deal under areo section !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lighten up  SUNSHINE  

[daytonalo]

 LIFE IS SHORT , LOOSEN UP !

[Steve P.]

Hey cupcake , I have contributed a great deal under areo section !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lighten up  SUNSHINE 

Realllly!!!  Did you tell everyone there that they DON"T need a thermostat??  I've got a grand that says your 70's Bronco has a t-stat in it...  I'll bet your Daytona has one in it too!!  Matter of fact, remove it from your big block and let me know how it does...

[skip68]

Hey (CUPCAKE) SteveP.   I live in N. Ca. in the hills and in the summer it gets over 100+ degrees and in the winter it gets in the high 20s and 30s.  I will only take my car out on dry days but I was wondering do you or some guy's change the thermostat for the climate???  In the chevy truck we used to have we came down from Tahoe in the winter and had to stop to get the truck to warm up so the heater would work......Chuck

[daytonalo]

Nope no stat in the bronco , or any engine I own . when it gets real cold I install a restrictor to make it run at 150

[Steve P.]

Hey (CUPCAKE) SteveP.   I live in N. Ca. in the hills and in the summer it gets over 100+ degrees and in the winter it gets in the high 20s and 30s.  I will only take my car out on dry days but I was wondering do you or some guy's change the thermostat for the climate???  In the chevy truck we used to have we came down from Tahoe in the winter and had to stop to get the truck to warm up so the heater would work......Chuck

No, you should only ever have to change a t-stat if it isn't operating properly. I lived in upstate NY for about 33 years and in Florida now for about 12. As long as the rest of your system is working properly you should have no problem keeping the same stat in year round. I prefer 180* stats in the pre computer cars. On all the newer stuff I use what the factory recommends. I don't have a problem with overheating even here in Florida. I have also towed cross country in the summer heat without trouble.

On the old Chebby truck it could be a few things, but it sounds like maybe you were low on coolant.

[skip68]

I don't remember being low on coolant but maybe It was about 12 years ago.  We were coasting for a few miles so I just thought it was so cold that it just cooled the engine down.  Thanks Mr. P.......................Chuck

[daytonalo]

Overheating isn't the issue here , Its the optimum temp for the optimum performance !

[Steve P.]

Overheating will be an issue if the stat is left out for 99% of the people here. Many are running stout engines that they put to the test every chance they get. Even more have cars that came with 22" rads. and they have built stump pulling big blocks. Still others are towing 5 to 6 thousand pounds around with their rigs. Many of them in mountainous areas. Even an orifice, (restricter), won't work for most. It damn sure won't work here in Florida.. Our Canadian brothers would freeze their arses off all winter. Chryco would be a Popsicle nearly year round!! I know my cousin and a few other members out there in the desert would fry motors on a regular basis. 

Also an orifice does not regulate flow. It restricks flow. Much like pinching a hose. A T-stat regulates when and how much.  Using an  orifice in a daily driver is comparable to running your AC all summer with the windows open. The AC never shuts off and when it gets a bit cooler outside you have to open the windows too....

[daytonalo]

Do your homework !!!!!!!!!! if a car overheats without a stat its because the cooling system is inadequate and the water is circulating too fast for the undersized rad to cool the water . My data has been compiled from my own 100 + vehicles and my race boat over the last thirty years !!!!!!!!!!!!! This method has worked for me , its proven , I do not need to prove to you or someones theory on this subject , I spend a small fortune on my race boat and hemi cars to go out and harm them . CASE CLOSED

[Steve P.]

So everyone should throw their thermostats away. OK....    Along with that Detroit can save themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars by not installing t-stats.. Maybe they should.. Then they can make lots more money selling everyone a new car very often!! Oh wait. Stupid me... That wouldn't work. SOME people are bound to bitch about needing a new engine so soon.. Some liberal bastard would raise too much hell..... 

Why don't we remove our back brakes too?? They only do about 30% of the work!!

You ARE right about one thing though. For me this case IS closed....

[skip68]

 

[Steve P.]

Has that got butter on it?? 

[daytonalo]

JUST BECAUSE A GUY ON TV GETS A SEX CHANGE , DOESN'T MEAN ITS RIGHT FOR EVERYONE ELSE ! This data stands for it self , and my racing career , and the wins have proven to myself that it works . Again I run my engines @ 150 , and @ 5000 rpm all day long . Can anyone else really say that !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve P.]

Ok, you reeled me in again.. Let's break this down.

1) You are not comparing apples to apples. Your 5000 rpm boat takes on fresh water every second it is running. RIGHT??  Also, your motor is built for running at 5000 rpm when ever it is running. RIGHT??

NOTHING ON THIS SITE IS BUILT FOR FRESH WATER ALL THE TIME OR TO RUN ALL DAY LONG AT 5000 RPM!!!!!!!!!!!!!  What part of that don't you understand??

2) Where is the DATA??

3) What RACING career are you referring to?? I've never seen you on TV to know you race anything. Never  Seen your name in any drag racing reviews either.

4) I think the fact that all nuclear facilities have back up diesel generators with huge radiators and t-stats that have to be tested and changed on a regular basis means something. The size of these rads. are 20 fold the amount of coolant required by the diesel manufacturer and they have entire room evac. fans to cool them. Without a stat these diesels would run at ambient temps. The Stats are in place to make the diesels run at a set temperature.

5) From my slight experience with racing boats, the orifice plates were changed out according to the lake temperature. Not run wide open. Maybe your motor is different from the blown 468 big block chevy I helped build. That boat ran over 119 MPH consistently.

6) I highly doubt you are hauling your boat any distance through the summer with a factory Bronco minus the T-stat. And I am not talking about all down hill!!! 

7) Even my Buddy's 150 Merc. has a t-stat and it's built for running in salt water down here in FLORIDA where it's very hot and humid.

Beyond this I don't really care.. Have a nice day.

[daytonalo]

why would I lie about my set up ! what would I have to gain , this is what works for me . And again my three ford trucks have no stats and again this is my experience . one more thing you horses ass , send me you e-mail address and I will forward a racing photo show for you to materbate on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Steve P.]

why would I lie about my set up ! what would I have to gain , this is what works for me . And again my three ford trucks have no stats and again this is my experience . one more thing you horses ass , send me you e-mail address and I will forward a racing photo show for you to materbate on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Wow, now who needs a hug?? 

You didn't answer ONE question.   You have not shown any DATA at all.

I could send you pics. of me racing too. Big deal.. Doesn't mean you know your ass from a hole in the ground. So far all you have done is show your ass. I don't need to see it!! I don't think anyone else here wants to see it either.  So with those infamous words used so often by AOL I will say two words to you.

GOOD BYE.....

[Steve P.]