Original 1/4 mile times?

[Sweet T]

Does anyone have the original quarter mile times of a 69 Charger?  With all the different motor and gear options I imagine the quarter mile times varied quite a bit.  Does anyone know what a stock 69 R/T 440 with a 4 speed and 4:10s would run the quarter in?

[triple_green]

high 13s

[RT DAVE]

Not exactly what you are looking for but note the last entry.   

Here's some info from my copy of the "CHARGER MUSCLE PORTFOLIO 1966-1974".   It's a compilation of road tests from back in the day.  I haven't found a single 440 powered charger that runs a 13 and most of the hemi cars didn't either.   Here's some brief stats:

67 charger 426 w/727, 3.23 rear   14.16@96.15, 10.1mpg  - Car Life Feb 1967
67 charger 426 w 727, 4.10 rear  14.20@103 , 8mpg    -Hi Performance Cars, March 1967
68 charger 426 w/727  unknown rear gear 14.06@105mph, 11.26mpg - Road Test, March 1968
68 charger 426 w/727 3.23 rear, 13.5@105, 9-12 mpg,   - Car & Driver September 1968
69 charger 500 426 w/727, 3.23 rear 13.80@105mph   - Hot Rod Feb 1969
69 Charger 500 426 w/ 4spd & 4.10 rear 13.48@109    - Hot Rod Feb 1969
70 Charger R/T 440/727 3.55 Dana  14.71@96.67       -Car Life May 1970

[RECHRGD]

Most Chargers came with the 323 gears, so getting a definitive time for your requested combo probably won't be published anywhere.  I can tell you that my new '68 Charger (440/323/727) ran mid to low 14's in bone stock condition with the stock polyglass tires.  Add some sticky tires with some headers and you were in the 13's.  Bob

[chargers_rock]

i dont no what transmision it had, but a 1969 dodge charger 440 rt ran 13.8 seconds at 104mph. this came from muscle car chronicle.

[greenpigs]

Yeah I got the Hemi 500 road test, did that have headers?

[Lord Warlock]

Taken out of the January 1969 motor trend: 

69 GTX 440 w/4.11 rear gears ran 13.7 in the quarter mile
69 Charger 440 w/3:55 rear gear ran 13.9 in the quarter mile.  On F70-14 tires no less. 

        charger     GTX
0-30   2.6         2.5
0-45   4.2         4.1
0-60   6.1         5.8
0-75   8.3         8.3

[tan top]

 not a R/T but  , in  a magazine called ( road test) December 69 , they tested a 69 Daytona 440 / 727  and recorded  14.48  @ 94.83 mph . then another run recorded  96.15 mph . it said the daytona was metallic lime green white stripe . it also shows a under hood shot , it has a 22" radiator . i wonder if it is still alive
         

[last426]

The best I saw on my car was 13.7 -- it was a hemi superbee, 4 speed I think.  That, my friends, is slow, slow, slow.  Kim

[Sweet T]

Thanks guys, I just want to know if I'm biting off more than I can chew.  I have some drags set up for the late spring/early summer.  93 Mustang with a bit of tweaking done and a pretty much stock 87 Grand National.  The previous, previous owner said the motor had a lot of cash invested in it.  I just pulled it out on Saturday and will have it gone through along with the leaking seals and gaskets.  I'll probably put the headers back on and I'll be running radials down the track...not those polyglass things.  Now that I have an idea of what the car is capable of stock I'll see how fast I get her down the track.

[Lord Warlock]

the foxbody mustang, if modded like most old ones were, is fully capable of sub 12 second quarters, especially at a track with the right tires.  I've raced several that ran in the 11s (in my stealth not my charger),  There are several locally that run 10s though so watch out.   The GN, if stock ran close to a stock charger big block would, low 14s to mid 13s, and they can go alot faster if heavily modded.  I'd say the GN would be a fun race if it was really mostly stock. 

[Ghoste]

I wouldn't put too much stock into road test results.  Those tests are frequently fudged and especially the older ones.  The writers of those tests freely admit how often that happened.  My guess is that a stock 69 RT with 4:10's will run mid 14's.  With some tuning and practice with the car, you'll have it into the low 14's.  That isn't to say that the car isn't capable of high 13's but dragstrips have a habit of humbling people driving onto them with road test results and bench race times.
Don't discount that Mustang or the GN, they are going to make you earn any victory.

[firefighter3931]

Thanks guys, I just want to know if I'm biting off more than I can chew.  I have some drags set up for the late spring/early summer.  93 Mustang with a bit of tweaking done and a pretty much stock 87 Grand National.  The previous, previous owner said the motor had a lot of cash invested in it.  I just pulled it out on Saturday and will have it gone through along with the leaking seals and gaskets.  I'll probably put the headers back on and I'll be running radials down the track...not those polyglass things.  Now that I have an idea of what the car is capable of stock I'll see how fast I get her down the track.

Tune the engine, get some sticky tires and loosen the front end. A few small things will go a long way to making the car launch better and run faster. The key is the short times....these types of races are usually won or lost in the first 60ft.


Ron

[myk]

I wouldn't put too much stock into road test results.  Those tests are frequently fudged and especially the older ones.  The writers of those tests freely admit how often that happened.  My guess is that a stock 69 RT with 4:10's will run mid 14's. 

Unless we're talking hemi-power with gears I seriously doubt a bone-stock R/T could do better than high 14's.  Many of those magazine results were the product of the fudging and "massaged" cars...

[JimShine]

I don't trust modern magazine numbers either. Last week I watched a popular car magazine test a '69 Charger with crate Hemi on the 1/4 mile. The guy they hired to drive the cars was very inexperienced with classic cars and it showed. He did 5 passes each, each time getting the tires to bite a little sooner and lower the time. But I don't think it was the best the cars had to offer. But it will end up published as a hard figure.

[Ghoste]

You wouldn't want to hint which magazine so we could watch for it by any chance?? 

[JimShine]

Here is a hint, CD.

[Silver R/T]

Jesses 68 R/T clone ran 13's with just bolt ons

[68pplcharger]

I've had some experience with muscle cars in stock form and running them at the track. The problem isn't horsepower as most people know. The listed horsepower was generally fudged with the big blocks for insurance reasons. The problem was suspension and tires. The charger with a correctly set up snubber, slicks, 4.10, 440 4bbl and a 4speed would be capable of mid 12's if the gears are descent and don't shatter. The trick is the preload on the snubber. The rear end will have a tendency to snap the tires loose unless the snubber is used to combat leaf spring wrap.

[Lord Warlock]

I agree, the problem with those early tests was the suspension and tires.  Driving a totally stock charger, even with 3.23 gears, you could pretty easily run mid 13s with good rubber under it.  When i first got mine 28 years ago, it still had f70sx14s and had no traction whatsoever, after putting L50x15s and dropping pressure down to 10lbs of pressure, it would run in the 13s regularly.  I suppose if you put it in drive and mashed the gas it would do mid 14s, but if you drove them right high 13s wasn't that hard.  Some cars ran better than others though, I used to race a roadrunner regularly and he never could stay with my car even though mine was totally stock and his wasn't, but I'd had a built 383 magnum in the car at one time and it ran as strong as the 440 did up to a certain point.  (about 120)

One difference is that my car was running near sea level, and didn't have thin air to worry about.  I've read plenty of magazines over the years that have rerun the old muscle cars stock and modified, and the cars ran faster and faster as tire technology improved.  It was recognized the six pack 440 cars were faster in the quarter than the hemis were. With some ladder bars and slicks, 13s were well within reach of the average R/T. 

[Mike DC]

       
IMHO the original figures are hopeless.  Inconsistent drivers + inconsistent tracks + inconsistent/unprofessional timing methods + factory "ringer" cars + worn-out factory cars . . . no nope of believable numbers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

And even if you DID get believable numbers, is that even the whole story? 

Example:
Everyone knows old 1960's polyglass tires were crap compared to modern radials.  But not everyone realizes that the suspension geometry, transmission gearing, and wheel-alignment specs of old musclecars were designed with polyglass tires in mind.  So by that line of thinking, you could swap out the polyglass tires on the musclecars being tested in favor of a set of modern radials, and you STILL haven't given the musclecars a truly fair shake against the newer cars yet.

Old road tests can teach you a few things about the 1960s, but they don't always tell you much about what the cars' performance would be today for a variety of reasons.

 

[1BAD68]

In my 70RT automatic 727 I ran a stock 440 with 906 heads, 509 cam and 3:23 suregrip that would run high 13's consistently. I switched to the 484 cam for streetability and was in the 14's

[deputycrawford]

My 69 has the original 383 2 bbl engine in it with a 2:76 on legger. I put an Eddie 750 and a stock 4bbl intake on it and ran a 15.125. I changed just a couple things to it and it ran a 13.19 with many problems. I went to a solid cam and fixed the problems and expect a 12.80ish run. Thats with stock block, heads, crank and rods. They were all over the place if you messaged them right.

[Ghoste]

The "couple of things" that made that 2 second leap, what were they if you don't mind my asking?

[deputycrawford]

Flat top pistons with 6 cc valve reliefs. Milled and ported the 906 heads .050 for 75cc chambers. Balanced the rotational assembly. 7qt pan, windage tray and high volume oil pump. Ported and matched RPM intake. 750 Mighty Demon carb. MSD ignition and distributor. Engle cam with .575 lift and dur. at .050 is 245 int and 253 ex. A Rick Allison trans including a Dynamic 9 1/2in 3500 stall converter. Changed the pig to a sure grip 4:10. I also use 28 in tall drag radials at around 14psi at the track.

Hope that helps.