power assisted brakes question

[hard-charger]

hi everyone!

I just got a new cam, and vacuum is not so great.  I was wondering if anybody with knows of anything that could help, (besides using a resevior thing). i looked into electric vacuum pumps, and all i could find was a $280 pump from summit.  kinda pricey
im sure there has gotta be somthing out there that dosn't cost that much, and does the same exact thing.

as of now im running a 440 with a tunnel ram. and a custom engle cam, kinda like a kv-3 but with more exhaust.
thanks!!!

[firefighter3931]

If you have power steering there is a product called hydroboost which runs off the power steering pump and uses hydraulic pressure to increase pedal feel. If you're using manual steering, this won't be an option and you're left with the cannister or electric pump.


Ron

[deputycrawford]

Firefighter, I had 11 inches of vacum at idle with my Hydraulic cam. I'm sure I'll be around the same with my new setup. Where can I find information on the hydroboost set up? I have manual brakes right now but a saginaw pump running the power steering.

[hard-charger]

I think i saw the hydo set up at summit.  it was like stoppin in at around $550 or so. it defanatly sounds like a pretty clever device also found that some GM cars from the early to mid 80's, had electric vacuum pumps that could serve as a pump on radical camed charger. but thats just what ive heard, ohh that and there are way cheeper than the pumps from summit.

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter, I had 11 inches of vacum at idle with my Hydraulic cam. I'm sure I'll be around the same with my new setup. Where can I find information on the hydroboost set up? I have manual brakes right now but a saginaw pump running the power steering.

Deputy, i'm not sure where to get the hydroboost kit from....maybe do a google search ? Or check Summit like HC suggested ?

NYC Mille (Mike) has the hydroboost on his car (I think)....maybe send him a PM for the lowdown.

HC is correct, some late model GM's used an electric pump...perhaps it was a Cadillac i remember reading about ?



Ron

[greenrt_se]

In last summer I put Hydraboost in my Charger,awesome brakes

[mikes68charger]

I put one on my charger and now I have to brace my self every time I hit the brakes. I work at pep boys on this side so, this is how I did it. I first got the hydroboost with master off of ebay - ($65) any 97-98 is cobra mustang, Chevy diesel trucks, suv's are all the same, the only dif is the mounting bolts for the master cylinder. I'm using the one off a mustang but If I had to do it again I would of got one off a Chevy truck, Chevy has those cool chrome or built master cylinders for later upgrades. Hydroboost are only bad if they leak, so If junking, look for sings of leaking, a rebuilt one will cost about $100, but the core is $280 and a new master cost $45 for a Chevy $120 for my cobra master cylinder  I also replaced my power steering pump with one off a 90's Chevy diesel truck, you can use factory but the assist wont be as strong the diesel pump puts out 2X the pressure and It Look identical to the mopar pump except the 2nd return line which helps the install. The biggest problem I ran in to was, the pressure hoses. Make sure you have as much of the hose as possable because the fittings that go to the hydro are not common and became a pain in my  I when to my local hydro hose shop and had the the lines made into costom hoses, $55 with fittings and Black still braided lines, I don't like the look of stainless lines. To mount on fire wall I just drilled the new holes with no problems and had no problems connecting to my petal.   I can send you some picks If you really are planning on doing this.

[RD]

could you not run a carb spacer with a vacuum hole tapped into the back and run two vacuum lines to your booster? or tap a vacuum hole into your intake ( i know its a tunnel ram), just curious.  anyone?

RD

[deputycrawford]

I believe what the engine produces in vacum is what you get. Multiple lines should not change that. I am really going to look into the Hydro boost thing. It sounds awsome and I can still have my big cam.

[Steve P.]

Hey Deputy, is there a reason you DON'T like the manual brakes??  Myself, I prefer them.. More feel and much less clutter..  Also less to go wrong....

[deputycrawford]

I guess I don't like the drum brakes as much as the manual part. I have heard that putting front or four wheel discs kinda mandates the power brakes thing. If this is not true then I will stay with manual brakes forever. Will a small bore master cylinder be ok with front or four wheel discs?

[Steve P.]

I guess I don't like the drum brakes as much as the manual part. I have heard that putting front or four wheel discs kinda mandates the power brakes thing. If this is not true then I will stay with manual brakes forever. Will a small bore master cylinder be ok with front or four wheel discs?

I don't have the answer for you on bore sizes. I can tell you that I have driven 4w disc brake cars / NON power and it felt just like everything else. 

I won't drive a car with a Jelly Jar and even with a bad back I will never add power brakes...

Just my .02

[deputycrawford]

Well then, I will not plan to upgrade to the power thingy. I will put front discs on first and se how a liine lock works....heh heh heh

[Steve P.]

Now your talkin!!! 

Rear brakes only do about 30% of the braking.  Drums out back are just fine.. It would be different if you were adding anti-stop, ooops,, I mean anti-lock brakes. Then most like discs all the way around..

[deputycrawford]

I have already put the 11 inch rear drums on my car from a 1973 ambulance. I also took the 3.23 sure grip form the rear. Oh, I got them for free too. The car stops ok for now but the front discs are in the future. I still have the rear end housing and the axels for future use but they have to be cut down. Oh well, the pig and the backing plates were enough. I bought all new everything else because im so easy on my car.

[Steve P.]

Hahaha,,, (EASY).....  OK...   

There is nothing I hate more than 4 wheel drums...  Ok, yes there is.. 4 wheel drums with a Jelly Jar!!!


The swap to front discs is a must. Especially for someone as EASY on a car as you....  haha..........

[deputycrawford]

I will look into paying a few bills off. Then I will spend the money on SSBC disc kit or somthing like that. Then my bills will still be there with my Charger. Things will be normal then.

[Steve P.]

There are a bunch of systems out there these days.  I am going the cheap way and buying a cheeeeeeep Fifth Avenue. It has everything you need with the exception of a non-power MC. When I'm done with the car I should recoup most of the money I spent buying the car at the bone yard.. 

I prefer the slider style calipers over the pin style. They are a bit heavier, but there is no deflection with sliders.

A search on disc brake conversions here will get you TONS of info..


Now get back out there and put some miles on that bad boy.............   

[deputycrawford]

Ooh, I will look at the other posts but what years of 5th aves are good ones to use. I pit crew for a guy on an ARCA Sportsman car. He OWNS a bone yard. I could probably get them for free. Also save those rims if they are steel with hub caps. I have been looking for steel rims for my dog dish look. I will put miles on my car tomorrow and friday.

[mikepmcs]

to answer the questions on the gm cars they are:
here we go...

Buick-
82 skyhawk-(j) and 82 -85 skylark-(x)

Cadillac-
82 cimmaron

Chevrolet-
84-86 celebrity(a)
82 caprice(b)
82 cavalier(j)
82-85 citation(x)

Oldsmobile-
86 cierra(a)
82 firenza(j)
82-84 omega(x)

Pontiac-
85-86 6000
82 j2000
82-84pheonix(x)

These were all equipped with the vac pump that was spoken about earlier and i'm sure can be found in any junkyard. This is exactly what i'm doing right now.  amazing how we all seem to be doing the same things at once.  I ran across the article and says it produces up to 20'' and only pops on when it needs to.  Which tells me mine would be constantly running because I think my booster might be bad.  Anyways i'm getting it when i get the time and installing it to see how it works. 
It's got to be cheaper than buying from summit and I haven't read too many good things on the vacuum reservoir dealio.  electric pump seems to be the least expensive solution for me anyways.

[dodge freak]

Whatever you do don't get a brake booster from Auto Zone. I changed mine 3 times in 1 year so far. First one started to leak after a few weeks so I changed it this spring, the warranty one they gave me was bad -it hold vacuum but was hard to push the brake pedal. Now this 3rd seems ok but its only been a few months. I am never buying anything but oil and stuff like that from Auto Zone ,their parts are cheap. The box the booster comes in does not even have a name, just said brake booster. Go to Napa or even Pep Boys.

[Steve P.]

On the AUTO ZONE booster: I don't remember what kind of vehicle we were working on now, but my buddy owns a used car lot and he needed a booster. He called around and A-Zone had the best price AND it came with a Master.. I believe they told my buddy it was A1-Cardone..  Many of his customers are repaet customers and bring their cars to him for repairs. I don't think that one ever came back with brake problems.  Maybe he just got lucky!!   

[dodge freak]

I think that what they said the name was, maybe I got unlucky ? Yeah they had the best price but it was no fun to change it 3 times. Wasn't too bad, that brake pin the bitch to get out and in but done much worst stuff. 3 times stink though.

[NYCMille]

I have the hydroboost on my 68' - the company is called hydratech... www.hydratech.com - Paul is the owner, super nice guy and their customer service is EXCEPTIONAL. With the 4 wheel BAER discs and hydroboost my Charger will out break most new cars. Expensive but totally worth it in my opinion.

Cheers - Mike

[dodge freak]

NCYMilli --you sure must have a nice car it sounds like, maybe one of the best drivers for sure. Yeah you put alot in it but thats where to spend the money-brakes ,trans not a $10,000 paint job, oh do you have that also ?

[Crazy440]

I have the hydroboost on my 68' - the company is called hydratech... www.hydratech.com - Paul is the owner, super nice guy and their customer service is EXCEPTIONAL. With the 4 wheel BAER discs and hydroboost my Charger will out break most new cars. Expensive but totally worth it in my opinion.

Cheers - Mike

I think this is the link. I clicked the other link and got some network solutions place.
http://www.hydratechbraking.com/

Crazy

[Steve P.]

NYC, how do your brakes feel WITHOUT the engine running??  1 - 10, how hard is it to stop the car on a roll?  Inquiring mind want to know... 

[NYCMille]

Ahhhh.... good question. The one drawback of the hydroboost is that if the you loose engine power, you have about 4-6 pumps of the pedal to stop the car. On a scale of 1-10 the pedal would probably be a 6 when the engine is off.

[Steve P.]

4 to 6 pumps is better than I would have expected.. So a 6 meaning you don't have to be King Long to stop the car, right??

[RD]

I used to work at autozone and have purchased a reman. booster from them for my ramcharger so the 400 could get in there.  Never a problem with brakes in 3 years.  I just bought a new booster from them for my RR, will put it on tomorrow.

word of advice, many of the autoparts stores buy from the same companies.  sometimes you get thrown a bone and sometimes you do not, but to black ball an autoparts store for one bad incident, well heck, then none of us should go to any single one of these parts stores because bones have been thrown to everyone when it comes to parts.

that is why you should always buy a part with a lifetime warranty from any autoparts store.