Area violence

[Mrfixit]

Well, the latest headline story here in Vermont, shooting left two dead and four others injured including the gunman.Guess it all stemmed from some sort of domestic violence. Gunman went to exgirlfriend's mothers house and killed her, then went to an elementary school near hear looking for the ex, killed another lady there. Then he took off on foot through a neighborhood and wounded somebody else..... after all this he pulls the gun on himself, shoots himself in the head and is currently being treated at the hospital.   This really shook every thing up in small town Vermont. Just about six miles down the road from here. Used to be a really nice place to live, but the last few years we've seen a rise in things like this. Guess it happens all over the place though.

[PocketThunder]

I see it as sex being the problem.  He probably was close to getting some and the mom warned her daughter about this guy and now she is to blame for him not getting any. 

[derailed]

I was up that way today with the wife and kids and heard it on the radio when it happened, I agree its getting bad everywhere. How about the distressed mother who drowned her 8 year old boy just across the lake in Rouses Pt. last week after having a fight with her husband.

[topduarte]

It is a shame this happens.

One of my good high school buddies lost his kids and ex wife to her deranged crazy boyfriend a few years back.

He was in Pennsylvania working and was worried that he hadn't heard from her in a few days.

He then called a friend to go check on them and then it was discovered that the boyfriend choked the two little kids and strangled his wife and then left and shot himself dead.

I hope he rots in hell for that.

http://www.childcrisiselp.org/ashleybrandon06.html

God Bless Ashley and Brandon!!

[Brock Samson]

It's awfully sad to be sure...
Ya' know what I'd like to see, is the source of the guns used in all these dispicable acts. 

[Ponch ®]

It's funny that people think the big cities (L.A., New York, Detroit) are crime ridden areas. Yet usually the most heinous stuff (ie. mother drowns her 5 kids, school shooting massacres, etc) always happens in little towns in Middle America.

[Charger_Fan]

Good point, Mojo.

I'm blaming it all on reality shows & infomercials. Those alone can make a small town individual go bezerk! 

[BigBlockSam]

i like when they talk to the gunman's neighbors. he was a quit guy , he never botherd anybody. yea till he snaps and kills everybody.   

[John_Kunkel]

Ya' know what I'd like to see, is the source of the guns used in all these dispicable acts. 

I'll take a wild guess. A gun factory?

[Mike DC]

[qoute]It's funny that people think the big cities (L.A., New York, Detroit) are crime ridden areas. Yet usually the most heinous stuff (ie. mother drowns her 5 kids, school shooting massacres, etc) always happens in little towns in Middle America.

True dat.  Cities have a lot of crime, but city folk don't make it personal.  They shoot you, take your stereo, and they're done. 
It takes the isolated weirdos to start sending mail-bombs & eating people.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What REALLY blows me away is the idea that raising kids in a small town helps them away from sex & drugs.

In my experience, if anything it was the opposite.  The small town kids did more humping/smoking than anyone in the 'burbs because they were all so horrendously bored in those towns by the time they reached their teens.  And with drugs, the "availability barrier" that smaller towns were supposed to provide was a total myth too.

.

[JimShine]

At 16 I went from a city High School to one on the sticks. The rural kids drank and did more dope than the inner city school. I remember most of our 'buyers' were some of these guys parents.

[Charger_Fan]

Ya' know what I'd like to see, is the source of the guns used in all these dispicable acts. 

I'll take a wild guess. A gun factory?

Now THAT was funny.

[Brock Samson]

i'm sorry,. i fail to see the joke.
what do you mean by that?

[Lowprofile]

Ya' know what I'd like to see, is the source of the guns used in all these despicable acts. 

I'll take a wild guess. A gun factory?

I'm sorry,. i fail to see the joke.
what do you mean by that?

Yep, lets blame the inanimate object or the producers of said object instead of the retards who unleash holy hell on society on a daily basis.

[Brock Samson]

             "Ya' know what I'd like to see, is the source of the guns used in all these despicable acts".

                             I'll take a wild guess. A gun factory?

                                 "I'm sorry,. i fail to see the joke".
                                   "what do you mean by that"?


               "Yep, lets blame the inanimate object or the producers of said object instead of the retards who unleash holy hell on society on a daily basis".


   I see I must not have made myself clear enough, and so, you missed my point entirerly,  I will spell it out for you then...



     WHO is responsible?.. for these wepons being in the hands of Gangsters, Whackjobs and  Children?
     
     

         

[Ponch ®]

  WHO is responsible?.. for these wepons being in the hands of Gangsters, Whackjobs and  Children?
     
 

gangsters, whackjobs and children.

[moparguy01]

[quote



     WHO is responsible?.. for these wepons being in the hands of Gangsters, Whackjobs and  Children?
     

So let me get this straight here, the gun manufacturer makes firearms to be used lawfully, and lets say some gangster steals it, its the manufacturers fault that the gangster stole it and killed someone with it? How about knives? people have been killed with steak knives before. Lets blame the knive manufacturer. How bout cars, people get in cars all the time and wreck and kill people. Lets blame the car companies. its their fault that someone used their product to kill them.

How about if someone accidentally drops an electric device into a tub of water,
Is it the electric devices fault? the water supply place? how about the bath tub manufacturer? hell lets blame all 3 of them. then lets stop making everything because its responsible for someone being killed, and go back to living in loin clothes running around like the cave man days. Then can we sue nature for making wood for clubs? how about the pointy sticks? Who is to blame for the pointy sticks?lets sue them too.

Where would it end my friend. Where would it end. Think about it from the other side, the LAWFULL gun owner. I am a gun owner, and 100% legal to own weapons. I have a concealed carry permit. I am a life member of the NRA. I guess somehow its my fault that this country is this way


Yes it is a shame that people kill other people. It's a shame exspecially for those talked about in this thread whose family was murdered. I do feel bad for them, and I wouldnt wish that upon anybody. But that doesnt mean we need to blame the manufacture of the tools uses to kill someone. They were built with a purpose. Somebody decided to use it in a way that is bad.
and for those who will say "But guns are made for killing" Keep in mind they were built for target practice, and hunting, and self protection. I use mine for all 3. and I wouldnt have it any other way.

[Lowprofile]

Well Said, Bro.    NRA Member 21 years now.


Sadly Brock, somedays you can buy a illegal handgun easier than you can get a water pump for a small block chebby.   

[Brock Samson]

Ok so some high, disenfranchised youth of 13 years of age is walking down the street, with an AK47 under his coat for protection from a gang similarly armed and then whips it out and shoots a cop who attempts to stop  him for looking suspisious,..
now if that was a isolated incident you'd think how bizarre is that? a junior high student with a machine gun!
but my point is, there's a pipeline/s funneling these leathal "tools" to the street.
we go after drugs right?..
So why can any whack job - gangster or spoiled child seemingly pick one of these things up at will?  
Do you favor a hands off policy?.. it's ok, because "when guns are outlawed only out laws will have guns",..

 My point stated another way is...
Why are there so damn many guns avail. to these perps? were not talking simply about some cheap sat. night specials, or knives here, we're talking about military hardware at loose in society... and in the hands of some very unstable, violent and desperate characters. how did THEY get to be armed with what often turns out to be multiple firearms, bullet proof vests and the attitude to kill?
What's the infrastructure that possibly causes but certinly allows such tragedy to occur on what is fact a daily basis?..  

 I'm just askin..  

[Ponch ®]

  and the attitude to kill?

that's the answer to your question. they have attitude to kill to begin with. If they didn't have it, they would not look for a gun in the first place.

A few years ago, some kid at UC Santa Barbara went nuts and ran over and killed a bunch of people with his car. A friend was going to school there at the time, and he saw the bodies laying on the street, covered. Sure, a gun would have made it easier for him, but the fact is that if you're insane enougn to go on a killing spree, you'll find a way to do it.

The question that you should be asking is why the 13 year old kid is disenfranchised to begin with.

Look at some of the most horrendous crimes that have been committed. Paula Yates and Susan Smith didn't shoot their children, OJ used a knife, and even the 9/11 hijackers didn't have guns at all. 

[4402tuff4u]

Talk about area violence...this past weekend our daily UPS driver that delivers mail and picks up our mail we sent out as correspondence here on the construction site was killed this past weekened. I had just spoken to him on Wednesday and I remember saying to him "have a good weekend buddy!" He was on his way home from dropping off his daughter at Marist College in Poughkeepsie, NY (upstate) and on his way home his wife was driving on a well known parkway called the Cross Island Parkway. Some gang wannabee piece of shit was shooting at red vehicles for some unimaginable reason and he was hit in the neck. Thank God that they got this beast of the streets! Can't think of a better reason or circumstances for the use of the needle in this particular case - no regard whatsoever for human life!     

[John_Kunkel]

My point stated another way is...
Why are there so damn many guns avail. to these perps? were not talking simply about some cheap sat. night specials, or knives here, we're talking about military hardware at loose in society... and in the hands of some very unstable, violent and desperate characters. how did THEY get to be armed with what often turns out to be multiple firearms, bullet proof vests and the attitude to kill?

Can't answer the "attitude to kill" part of your question but as to the supply of guns the short answer is...................GREED.

As long as there is a need there will be a supply, and the notion that laws can control it is beyond naive.

[Ponch ®]

the notion that laws can control it is beyond naive.

See: pot, prostitution, underage drinking/smoking, etc....

[REDNECK]

 

Ya' know what I'd like to see, is the source of the guns used in all these dispicable acts.

I'll take a wild guess. A gun factory?

Now THAT was funny.

[dodge freak]

Well said-with a gun a 4-5 year old kid can kill a 250 lbs man, there is nothing else that makes killing so easy than a hand gun. Now that still does not explain why these last few years crime in small towns has been way up, maybe its the lack of good paying jobs or the increase worry about terrorist or the lack of morals these young people have today.

[Charger_Fan]

Talk about area violence...this past weekend our daily UPS driver that delivers mail and picks up our mail we sent out as correspondence here on the construction site was killed this past weekened. I had just spoken to him on Friday and I remember saying to him "have a good weekend buddy!" He was on his way home from dropping off his daughter at Marist College in Poughkeepsie, NY (upstate) and on his way home his wife was driving on a well known parkway called the Cross Island Parkway. Some gang wannabee piece of shit was shooting at red vehicles for some unimaginable reason and he was hit in the neck. Thank God that they got this beast of the streets! Can't think of a better reason or circumstances for the use of the needle in this particular case - no regard whatsoever for human life!     

I agree, that's a perfect reason for the needle...or the chair...or a bullet...or...

That sucks.

[69ChargerRTSE]

If guns kill people, I can blame misspelled words on my pencil. That was from Larry the Cable Guy.

[bull]

Laws only affect law-abiding citizens.

[Brock Samson]

kinda busy here today...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/29/BAGAEKRCO55.DTL

also..

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/29/BAG5CKQV9K1.DTL

[dodge freak]

You seen that too ? Whats going on ? There's so many nuts in the world today its unbelievable. Why can people just be happy they are alive instead of hating everyone ? Sorry if I am asking dumb questions but I just can not understand some of these people in the news . A crack head robbing a store yes but people running over others for fun , a jerk claiming to killed a little girl -no - whats up ?

[Mike DC]

 
IMHO the gun violence is rooted in a combination of factors here.

The United States is a combination of weird people, extremely materialistic values, ADD-ish attention spans and glorification of "outside-of-the-box" thinking.  (It's a very short jump between "outside-of-the-box" thinking and "outside-of-the-law" thinking.)  We combine all that with a lower class in bad conditions that feels like they have little chance of getting ahead by any legal/moral means.

 

[Brock Samson]

I have to agree,..
thanks for saying that.
the disenfranchised are dangerous.

[Lowprofile]

 
IMHO the gun violence is rooted in a combination of factors here.

The United States is a combination of weird people, extremely materialistic values, ADD-ish attention spans and glorification of "outside-of-the-box" thinking.  (It's a very short jump between "outside-of-the-box" thinking and "outside-of-the-law" thinking.)  We combine all that with a lower class in bad conditions that feels like they have little chance of getting ahead by any legal/moral means.

 

I have to agree,..
thanks for saying that.
the disenfranchised are dangerous.

A Lot of pretty words for not taking any personal responsibility for your own actions & a lack of backbone.

[Brock Samson]

 O.K. and your solution is?.

[Lowprofile]

Well, I can only speak for myself bro, but the way I see it, Its bad parenting that is the root cause of most if not all of these problems with our "disenfranchised youth".

I grew up in a broken home......My mom worked her ass of to support me & my 2 brothers, and still made time for us. Everything I have I worked hard for, no hand-outs. The gifts of self reliance & hard work is what she gave us, and we will be forever gratefull to her for it. I am sure you and many other board members have similar stories about your parents.

Just because people grow up or are poor gives them no right to resort to violence because they don't posses something someone else has, yet that seems to always be their excuse.

Its a parents job to teach their children values, morals, self worth & self respect. Its when parents fail that we all pay the price.
So, to your statement "and your solution is?"........

Kill all the Lawyers.........Wait, thats another discussion

[dodge freak]

I agree with everything expect that "kill all the lawyers" bit.  But its not only the poor but the middle class and even the rich-remember those Beverly Hills kids who killed their parents cause they had only like $25,000 a month to spend ? Granted every kid who goes bad its not the parents fault but alot times it is. Way too many people have kids then could care less how they act. But its not for everybody to have kids but most everybody does.

What can we do ? I have no idea cause if they are not your kids you can't say or do anything to them.

[DodgeByDave]

Here in Indy we just went through an inner city shooting spree. 13 murders in 2 days. Why?
I can't even begin to fathom why, because this is something that I can't understand.

That being said, I do know this. Having grown up on a farm and such while we were just as capable of mischief as any other kids we didn't have the time or the energy once the days chores were done. We started at 5 am because there were 400 head of dairy cattle to be milked, 200 head of pigs to be fed as well as countless dogs,cats,chickens,goats,ducks,geese and someone had to grow the corn, soybeans, vegetables, etc. to make it all happen. Hmmm, idle hands do the devils work.

I grew up around guns, Grandfather had almost 20 at the time. Rifles, shotguns, pistols, muzzleloaders and the last thing on our young minds was to mess with them. Why? Because god help you if you were caught messing with stuff you didn't have any business messing with. I was raised in a god-fearing church/school type environment but that isn't what shaped our sense of self discipline. It was the wrath of good old Grandpa Record that shaped our character, one good backhand at a time.

When I was 12 gramps took several of us down to the local co-op to exchange whole feed corn for ground, while there us younguns was going to make a short-cut across the floor of the unloading area and we all learned a valuable lesson that day. You walk around the grain auger and never step across. Why? because if you get a pants leg caught that thing will rip your leg off in a heartbeat. My cousin, being the oldest and in the lead caught one of those patented backhands that sent him (at least in my young mind) a good 30 feet to end up in a heap against the far wall. Cruel? Which is more cruel, to raise children that have an awareness of responsibility and discipline or let a child lose a leg or they're life?

Face it, we live in a lazy instant society that can't and won't face the fact that if you spare the rod, the children end up worthless. We have an entire generation that has more excuses than Carter has liver pills. As extreme as they (generation X) claim to be, little words like responsibility and accountability scare these young folks. Why? It's not fun to be responsible for children that are created on a lark or to be held accountable for a street racing accident that killed your best friend. It's not glamorous or fabulous to step back and say "I'm not going to do that" because there is a tomorrow and I am accountable for my actions.

And as far as guns are concerned, guns cause crime like Rosie O'Donnell's fork made her fat. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my assault rifle. These are 2 great examples of  how once you apply accountability and responsibly, the fallacy of liberal social engineering shines in it's worst.

I know that part of this boards deal is to stay away from politics and religion, for they are very volatile topics to discuss. Very rarely can 2 Baptist discuss a baptism without it coming to blows. However, as any mechanic will tell you, tolerance is the amount that any part can deviate from the norm before the whole machine breaks down. And right now this machine is all messed up because of too much tolerance.

End of rant, and I'm not sorry if I offended anyone. We are all to blame and it is going to take alot of personal soul searching and even some sacrifice to fix it.

DBD

[Lowprofile]

Good Post Bro.....I agree. 

I agree with everything expect that "kill all the lawyers" bit.

Its called "Sarcasm" df.