Where to start on restoration

[69 Charger SE]

Hi I am new to the site and I am getting ready to start restoring my old high school car - 1969 Charger SE which my father bought off the show room floor when I was 2.

The car is in pretty bad shape and needs a lot of work - area that I know need to be replaced are the typical rusted out areas on a charger - basically i need to replace almost everything from the rear window back (trunk, rear valance pan, behind the rear bumper, tail light panel both rear quarters.  There is a good chance that I will also need to replace the top - too afraid to look yet to see the damage under the vinyl - but there is a good amount of rust I can see.  (luckily I have a shell with a good roof but the frame is severely damaged).   

I am planning on doing all the work myself (now I just need to learn how to weld and what type of welder to get).  Yes I have thought about just getting another charger - but it would not be my charger or the one my dad bought off the show room floor. 

I am looking for any and all advice on where to start the restoration and advice on what sheet metal parts are the best (if originals are not available) and more importantly any advice on welding.

Thanks in advance
v/r
Patrick

[Mike DC]

Welcome to the site.  It's a WEALTH of resources for these cars.

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Here's what you need to know for better or for worse.  I'm basically giving you all the major bad news I can think of, but you're better off hearing it:


--  There isn't much of anything in terms of sheetmetal that you can find N.O.S. anymore.  Not for any reasonable amount of money.  And even the clean used stuff is getting extremely expensive.  You will be rebuilding most of the body on this car by re-using the panels it already has, and by purchasing reproductions of the rear end stuff.

--  EVERYBODY doing Dodge Chargers these days is doing a lot of sheetmetal work to these cars.  Other car guys (Ford & Chevy guys, body shop workers, etc) will be quick to tell you that a car "isn't worth fixing," but they aren't the ones trying to find Mopars & parts.  Chevy & Ford cars were made un MUCH greater numbers back in the 1960s.  So now, those cars & parts are much, much easier to find  (which means they're still finding better cars & parts on average than Mopar guys).  So the Chevy/Ford guys simply aren't very aware of your situation.  They don't understand how few cars & parts you really have to pick from, and how many other people are already fixing up cars as bad as yours.  It doesn't mean they don't know a lot about cars, but it DOES mean that they don't know a lot about the current world of old Dodges & Plymouths.

--  Don't worry about the trunkfloor or passenger floors.  Worry about the subframe rails.  If your car's subframe rails are all solid, then you're in business.  If they're rusted to the point of compromising the integrity of the car's frame, then you've got bigger problems.  (The car's still fixable and many other guys have done it, but you may be out of your league if you're not experienced with this stuff already.)

-- When it comes to sheetmetal & body parts, reproduction parts are dogsh*t.  Seriously.  If this were any other industry, the parts getting sold would not be tolerated.  I don't care what a company says in the advertisements, you must re-orient your viewpoint away from "new=good."  In this hobby, the best parts are the surviving parts from 35 years ago.  The new reproduction parts are almost all at least somewhat weaker in metal quality than the originals were.  And only in the last few years have they started to even look & fit correctly.  You need to learn to expect to pay money for second-rate crap, and just be happy when you get a part that's actually decent.  These resto parts may look good on the finished cars, but that's because the owners put a lot of effort into working on almost every single body part they bought.

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It's a lot to swallow.  I know. 

But if you learn this early, you'll be better off in the long run.  Soak it all in right now and then decide whether you still wanna restore this car.  It sure beats the alternative.  If you go into this restoration expecting otherwise, you'll end up getting freshly pissed-off at these issues every step of the way and that's no fun.

[69 Charger SE]

you pretty much confirmed what I have already come to as a conclusion.  I have been debating this for the last ten years (just wish I had started 10 years ago - however did not have the time or place to work on her back then.   The frame is solid and everwhere else the car is pretty solid except for the places I mentioned above.  I know it is not going to be easy and will probably be down right frustrating at times.  I have had a lot of people tell me to spend the money and have someone else fix it - but then again that would take all the "fun" out of it.

[Shakey]

Start off by getting a digital camera and start taking pictures or every area of the car.  Every nut and bolt and part on the car.  Keep these photos organized on you PC and create a backup file.

Then start removing everything from the car, and I mean everything.  As you remove an item, photograph it, label  it and put it in a labeled box.  You won't need these items for quite some time and you will want to know what and where everthing is when the time does come to restore or install it.

This process will save you a ton of time and money.

If you need more ideas on this - hopefully Dodge Don will chime in as he has one of the most organized set ups I have ever seen.

Welcome to the site.   

[Dodge Don]

Thanks Shakey.


I did alot of planning before I started my restoration. Because it's my first, I wanted to do it right.

First.....do not underestimate how much space a disassembled car takes up. I equipped my garage with tons of storage space.....not even close. Had to build huge shelving units in our basement....honestly looks like the back of a parts store. Can't say the Wife was pleased.

Every cabinet, shelf and storage area was given a code....that code is key to finding the part again. If you asked me where such n such part was I'd have no idea, until I opened up my laptop with my project plan on there and it tells me exactly where every piece is.

Digital camera is a must....one that takes video is a bonus.

As I took off each part that part was assigned a Task Number....for each "Task" I tracked if it was off the car, where it was stored, what needed to be done, what parts are needed, are they ordered, were they received and general notes on the task at hand. I take literally thousands of pictures. And I file them by the same task number. Thus if I'm looking at Task 245 and I want to look at the pictures I look under Task 245 in my pictures directory.    KEEP BACKUPS!!!!

I took the approach of working each Task to completion before moving on...meaning I take something off, restore it or replace it before moving on. Eventually you get more comfortable and you end up multi-tasking.

Take it one step at a time. Most resto attempts fail, in my opinion, because they are so disorganized that it becomes a nightmare and they lose interest.

This might help. Initially I started keeping track of my resto on the site linked below until it could no longer upload anymore pictures....you may find it helpful as it goes in order of what I did. Eventually it stops but there is alot of info there.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/344244/4

[69 Charger SE]

Don nice job on the pictures - I just wish the back end of my car looked 1/10th that good.
I have a couple boxes of parts in the garage that I am going to start taking inventory of tomorrow and storing them away. 
Patrick

[grouseman]

I would think that a factory service manual for your model would be worth it's weight in gold.

At least half the battle seems to be logistics and organization.  The other half is probably patience and perseverence. 

[tan top]

before i even start to disassemble any thing  on a resto  job  i always pressure wash with proper detergent  the  entire car top to bottom ,  engine etc , makes it cleaner  to work on , especially when it is time to pull the motor &  cutting & welding on the under side. and  prep for paint etc . just my  i would be intrested in seeing pictures as you progress 

[TylerCharger69]

How about posting some pics of this car  to see what you have to work with?   In some cases it may not be near as extensive...then on the other hand...it can be more extensive than what you originally may have contemplated!!!

[69 Charger SE]

I will post some pics as soon as I find them (old) and some of it now days when I get them taken.  Service manual - I have the orginal one that my dad bought way back when and I went and bought a reproduced one a few years ago - so I could retire the old one.

[Mike DC]

Sounds like you know what you're getting into.  That's good.
 
Sounds like the car isn't too rusted either.  Sheetmetal work isn't always easy for the beginner, but if the frame is solid then it really limits the workload (and it also limits the potential damage you risk doing if you make mistakes).  By modern standards in the Mopar hobby, fixing a '69 Charger that needs lots of trunkfloors & quarter panels & passenger floors is not unusual at all.

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Other areas on the car to check for rust that you might not have noticed:


--  The rear window channels where the glass mounts, and the bottom corners of the entire "recessed" rear window area of the bodywork.

--  The subframe crossmember under the front seats.  Check the outer ends near the sides of the car, and check around the torsion-bar mounts.

--  The front subframe rails.  Check below the battery area (between the front bumper bracket and the shock tower) on both sides of the car. 

 

[Chatt69chgr]

The best thing you have already done, vis-a-vis, restoring your charger is finding this site.  There is virtually nothing these guys don't know about and they are happy to share their knowledge with you.  First thing I would do is go back and read every post on the site.  Then go to the 70 charger site and read everyting they have posted.  By doing this, you will get a general "feel" for what's going through everyone's head and many of your questions will be answered.  After doing all this reading, you will be able to go over your car and make an initial list of problem areas along with parts that you need to obtain.  You will then want to work up a list of parts suppliers.  The Year One catalog is a good resource.  But they are usually too expensive unless you are smart and wait for a 20% off discount code.  The guys here always post these whenever they appear.  I have never got one in the mail from Year One but have been a customer for over two years and have ordered a couple thousand $$ worth of parts---all at 20% off.  So unless you are in a hurry, wait on the next 20% off deal with them.  The Mopar magazines are a good source for ads from parts suppliers.  Take pencil and paper to Books-a-Million.  Not sure what kind of internet connection you have but a high speed connection is the only way to go.  Makes downloading pictures and parts suppliers catalogs easy.  Documenting everything with a digital camera is a no brainer these days as cheap as these things have gotten.  The factory shop manual is available on CD.  I would concentrate on the hard to find stuff first if you are budgeting your money.  As far as welders go, you can't go wrong with Miller.  BR Welder out of Maryland has good prices.  And believe it or not, there are still parts to be found in junkyards.  Parts on other model Dodges, Plymouths, and Chryslers, will fit chargers.  So just because you don't find any chargers in the junkyard doesn't mean you can't find some useful parts.  Plus, it's fun to go to junkyards.  Hit them in November after the bugs, snakes and bees are gone.  US Radiator out of California makes a good brass radiators.  Year One gets theirs from US Radiator.  You can get it cheaper directly from US Radiator.  I like Doge Don's idea of taking off a part and restoring that part before moving on to the next one.  O/W, you will end up with a pile of stuff and no idea where it came from.  The hardest thing to find for me were decent seat belts.  I finally determined that several out of 69 C-Bodys were the same as used in chargers.  I saved some of my originals by dyeing them with RIT dye.  I couldn't believe how good it worked.  Turns out that RIT dye is an aniline dye that "fixes" at about 170 degrees F.  And works perfectly on nylon webbing.  Had to repaint the buckles with semiflat black.  But they turned out real nice.  So now I have a nice set of belts ready to go back in the car when the time comes.  Good luck with you project. 

[69 Charger SE]

Well I have tried to upload a pic of the car but this is what I keep getting

An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry! There is already an attachment with the same filename as the one you tried to upload. Please rename the file and try again.

any ideas?

[Shakey]

Well I have tried to upload a pic of the car but this is what I keep getting

An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry! There is already an attachment with the same filename as the one you tried to upload. Please rename the file and try again.

any ideas?

Do exactly what it says - rename the file.

The server will not allow two files with the same name.  If your photo is "DSC001", most likely someone has already used that file name.  Rename it something unique.  Put your initials at the end or something like that.  If your photo is named "mycharger", chances are someone has used that one as well.

[TylerCharger69]

 

[69 Charger SE]

Thanks

[TylerCharger69]

This is the car you need to restore??  Looks okay to me.....

[DC_1]

I am assuming those pics are from back in the day.......nice luggage rack and trailer hitch......looks like it was all geared up for family use.

[69 Charger SE]

Like I said she use to look like that.  That pic was taken in 1984.  What you don't see is the inside of the trunk and the rust around the rear window and rear quarters (I was pretty good with bondo back then).  Since then (1986) she was hit by a 73 Nova and ripped from the front fender all the way back.  I had to have the hood, bumper, grill, front valance pan, front fender, door, hinge post, door jamb and rear quarter.  Come to find out all those parts except for the front fender and door were a piece of junk they really rusted out really bad.  As I was putting some primer on it and a coat of paint a few weeks ago just to seal the rest of the car, I noticed that the hood had major amounts of bondo in it.  Also everywhere the welds were put in buy the body shop the welds have rusted out.  And since then she has been sitting outside in Florida

This is what I know I have to replace.
Hood - I think I can reuse my orginal hood - the front of it is bent downwards about 3 inches. (I kept it)
Possible the roof - I have a second charger with a body that is totally shot but has a good roof.
both rear quarters
All the way around the rear window
rear window deck pan
tail light panel
rear valance pan
rear cross memeber
all of the trunk
door hinge post
passagener lower door skin (luckily I still have my origianl passenger door which is solid)
fuel tank

As for the rest of the car it looks pretty solid.  Once I get new pics I will post so you can see how bad she looks now

[terrible one]

Any pictures of her in current condish?