rear brakes keep adjusting themselves to tight,any answers....

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hi all,on my 68 coronet with man drums all around,the rear brakes keep adjusting themselves way to tight as to make the car drag and heat up the rear rims so hot you can't even touch them.I have unadjusted them about 3 or 4 times so far,but only after 40 miles or so,they keep  adjusting themselves to tight again.I pulled the drum on my 69 charger and it has a different style of adjusting,it pulls up from beneath the star wheel as my 68 pushes diown on the star wheel.This is my on 24 k mile coronet that I removed all the original brakes and replaced with all new shoes,springs ,hardware ,etc.,and even did one wheel at a time as to not mix anything up.Even when you look at the pic enclosed,the adj lever pushes down to adjust(I have confirmed that),and does not allow the star wheel to go the opposite way(to unadjust).,so I cannot figure out why it gets tighter as I just drive forward and stop normally.Here is the pic for you to see.....

[bluesfool]

Did you replace the cylinder too? I had a '71 that would do the same thing but after I replaced both cylinders, everything was fine.

[69 OUR/TEA]

yes,new wheel cylinders too.After I take the drum off,you can see the adjuster out farther than it was when I first adjusted it.So like I said,for some reason they keep adjusting as I drive.

[bluesfool]

Hmmm, I'm just guessing now, but are you sure the parking brake isn't stuck in the engaged position? I know after you put everything back together the brakes would be set to "normal", but if the parking brake cable is frozen to the "engaged" position, maybe that would be why the adjuster keeps tightening? Like I said, now I'm just guessing of all possibilities.

[69 OUR/TEA]

thanks bluesfool for your effort on my problem,I checked that also already,and it moves and unlocks freely,and works properly,but I will try this.....I will unadjust the p brake cable some and retry the adjustment on the shoes again and see what happens.

[69chargeryeehaa]

i have the same issue on my 69 charger with 10" drums all round.  so the style of the adjuster, weather rotating the star wheel up or down does'nt matter!!!   at first the drivers side was the problem, and i found the parking brake leaver on the shoe was hanging up on the shoe, fixed that and now the passanger side gets really hot, and adjusts it'self too tight.  so i backed them off, and did'nt use the parking brake at all, and it still does it.  i've been chasing this mystery for ever (about 10 months) and i have absoultly no idea why it's happening.  Everything is new, cylinders, lines, proportioning valve, master cylinder, booster, shoes, hardware.  i'm totally at a loss to understand why this is happening, the parking brake and cables are in perfect operation.  i'm almost thinking to remove the self adjuster cable and call it a day!!!!  if you figure it out i'd die to know why this happens.

[chargerbr549]

I think it was up till 69 the HD 11" brakes didn't have self adjusters because when the brakes get hot the drums would expand and then when you backed up the brakes would self adjust, then when the drums cooled down they would be too tight so Chrysler left the self adusting system off. ON my 69 R/T every so often I will check my brakes and adjust them so its no big deal if you don't drive the car alot. If it was me and I had that problem of it always self adjusting when it's not suppose to I think I would eliminate the self adjuster set-up and probably run it that way.

Kevin

[Chryco Psycho]

if the drums are old & too thin they could be expanding too much with heat & overadjusting

[69chargeryeehaa]

i would accept those theory's, BUT we are only talking the passenger rear wheel    the fronts are fine, and i can't believe that this is only happening on the passenger rear wheel, the drivers rear wheel used to do it too, and the passenger was fine, i put on new shoes and now it's the passenger rear wheel that does it, i'm at a total loss as to why this is happening.

[resq302]

Just curious, are you leaking any gear oil which might be causing the shoes to stick making it heat up?  I had a problem with my left rear seal on my rear axle and when I hit the brakes, it would cause the left rear wheel to lock up, then release when I let up on the brake.

[69chargeryeehaa]

Just curious, are you leaking any gear oil which might be causing the shoes to stick making it heat up?  I had a problem with my left rear seal on my rear axle and when I hit the brakes, it would cause the left rear wheel to lock up, then release when I let up on the brake.

it's bone dry, everything is new, hardware, cables, lines, wheel cylinders, adjuster, prop. valve, everything, the problem still exists, just moves from wheel to wheel after i change shoes everything is checked and double checked, shoes are installed correctly, short towards the front, and the longer towards the back, i don't get it, one of those life mysterys!!!!  i allways am the one to get those everytime!!!!

[resq302]

Ok, so the driverside works fine but the pass. side does not.  Can you take off both of the drums and visually compare them to see if one thing is slightly out of place?

[69chargeryeehaa]

not only have i done that, but 10 times, i just don't get it.  the pass side was fine before, and it was the drivers side that did it, now it's the opposite.

[TylerCharger69]

Heres my guess....When you put new shoes on......did you have the drums turned/resurfaced???   A warped drum will cause that too!!!

[Chryco Psycho]

have you tried swapping drums L to R ?

[69 OUR/TEA]

don't know if you are talking to 69chargeryeehaa or me TYLER,but yes I had mine resurfaced.This is on my 68 coronet 440 which only had 22 k orig miles so all the brakes and hardware and drums were in great shape anyway,but figured if I am going to drive this I will put all new lines,wheel cylinders,hardware,shoes,and turn the drums.In which when the rear drums were turned,they were almost perfect and needed barely anything taken off,so they are very close to the original measurements.

[TylerCharger69]

Well...the only other "simple" answer I could come up with is that maybe....due to age, the wheel cylinders are pushing out when the pedal is applied, but not retracting back properly.  I dunno....I'm just trying to come up with a solution to your problem.....it baffles me though

[69chargeryeehaa]

Well...the only other "simple" answer I could come up with is that maybe....due to age, the wheel cylinders are pushing out when the pedal is applied, but not retracting back properly.  I dunno....I'm just trying to come up with a solution to your problem.....it baffles me though

wheel cylinders are new.   i just let them get hot, for the life of me i can't figure it out, they're perty simple, this is'nt rocket science, and i've thought about it forever, i just can't figure it out, so i accept it.

[TylerCharger69]

Is it possible....that you got the right side and left side adjustment deals mixed up?   Or....is it possible that they are on backwards??   I dunno....I'm trying to help....lol

[69chargeryeehaa]

Is it possible....that you got the right side and left side adjustment deals mixed up?   Or....is it possible that they are on backwards??   I dunno....I'm trying to help....lol

no, they have a R and L stamped in the star wheels, and everything is perfect, lifes mysteries, keep them comming, assuming everything is new!! and the problem still exists.

[TylerCharger69]

damn....you got me......maybe the "L" shaped locks  aren't locking???   It's a mystery.   Maybe a pic of a setup from someone's car that works properly...then compare the two...

[69chargeryeehaa]

damn....you got me......maybe the "L" shaped locks  aren't locking???   It's a mystery.   Maybe a pic of a setup from someone's car that works properly...then compare the two...

if i compare the 2 then they are the exact same, it seems like only one side adjusts itself too tight, why i don't know.  funny how the problem was on the drivers side rear, and then after changing shoes it moved to the passenger side?

[chgr500]

From the looks of your previous replacement of parts you have eliminated most of the possible concerns.   If the problem changed sides after switching the shoes from side to side the problem must be in linings. Try switching drums first to eliminate any concerns with it heating up and warping.  For sure because that shoe has warmed up it would be glazed so sand the shoes with heavy grit sandpaper and try it.  Perhaps with a lower quality of lining this could cause some drag on one shoe after releasing the pedal when they get warm???  So many different qualities of linings available these days.  I would try new good quality shoes if all else fails.

[myk]

What was that about eliminating the self-adjusting pieces? 

[69chargeryeehaa]

my next plan was to elliminate the self adjuster cable, but leave the arm in place to hold the star wheel.  the linings are brand new monroe preimum shoes, when putting the NEW shoes on, the problem went over to the passenger side rear from the drivers side rear, that's what's got me totally baffled.

[bluesfool]

Okay, here's one more guess: when you replaced the shoes, are you SURE the piston arms that come out of the cylinder are seated properly and making correct contact with the shoes? If one cylinder is hitting off to the side of one of the shoes, and the other cylinder is where it needs to be, then the one side will be over-adjusting (maybe?). Even if it was correct when you put it all together, the shoe could have worked it's way loose enough to shift.

[69chargeryeehaa]

Okay, here's one more guess: when you replaced the shoes, are you SURE the piston arms that come out of the cylinder are seated properly and making correct contact with the shoes? If one cylinder is hitting off to the side of one of the shoes, and the other cylinder is where it needs to be, then the one side will be over-adjusting (maybe?). Even if it was correct when you put it all together, the shoe could have worked it's way loose enough to shift.

absoultly 110% sure it is assembled correctly, everything works perfect, the adjusters work perfect, i don't get how just shoes make the problem move to the other side?

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Also assuming you installed the shoes correctly (primary & secondary)?

[chgr500]

Are these brake linings bonded or riveted?  You're absolutely sure there is no difference in the linings from side to side.  Especially the lining height of the linings themselves.  I know some after market manufactures use an increased lining depth to compinsate for the machining of the drums. How tight are the drums when you put them or do you have to adjust them out somewhat?   Funny how your concern seems to switch sides with the linings.  Would make you think the linings are related to the problem considering it was only parts moved.  Not wheel cylinders or drums adjusters.

[resq302]

Might you be able to get another set of rear shoes, say bendix or wagner and try them?

[69 OUR/TEA]

My coronet is a 68,which had a different style of self adjuster than 69 and up.Figuring maybe there is a problem with this system,on why my rears keep over adjusting,I ripped it all off today and to all the theorys in the past few days of this post,put all new hardware,shoes,drums,and the 69 up self adjuster kit.Also checked the e-brake cable to make sure it moves freely and was not to tight,causing tension on the lever even when not engauged.Another note,the wheels cylinders were new along with the rear rubber flex hose going down to rear end.Took it out for a ride for about 1/2 hour and everything seems fine now,but only somemore miles will tell.Will keep posted on how they keep working,here are 2 pics of the difference between the two styles.

[TylerCharger69]

6T9....ya know....that's a good point... both shoes ARE different!!!  I'm going to go out on a limb and agree with the primary/secondary theory.......

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

The smaller shoe faces the front of the car (primary)

Secondary (larger) is towards the rear..

In Our/Tea's pics he has them correct on his cars..... (left rear wheel)

[69chargeryeehaa]

i just took off both wheels yesterday, and examined the whole rear brakes off the ground (suregrip) so i could freely spin both wheels.  the shoes are bonded, and yes, they are correctly installed, they are monroe premium shoes, and there really is'nt a way to install them incorrectly because the self adjuster arm mounts are on the longer shoe, which goes towards the rear, and the shorter ones go towards the front of the car.  even though the drum on the passenger side gets hotter than the drivers, after over 1000mi there is no wear difference between sides, now i know what your thinking, and no it's not the axle bearings, i ran the rims without the centre caps, and the axle ends are cold after driving, and it's only the drum that is getting hot.  i'm baffled, i loosened the adjusters, put the wheels back on, and drove over 100mi last night, no issues, car rolls freely, and the passenger side was not that hot as before, i did notice that the shoes were worn on the passenger side where there was a grove in the drum outer edge, and maybe that was what was causing the heat, but the shoes and drums had no sign of heat damage or glazing.    so we'll see, the mystery continues.

[grouseman]

That pink spring is on backwards.  That long straight section should attach to the brake shoe.  The way you've got it the spring coils are binding on the shoe.  Just flip the spring end-to-end.  Looks like you've done the same to both sides. 

[grouseman]

Also, can anyone confirm if that pink spring is anchored in the correct hole in the brake shoe? 

[TylerCharger69]

I pulled a wheel off just to see..and yes it looks like the pink spring is turned backwards....Unless  mine is backwards....lol

[69 OUR/TEA]

not trying to start a political debate,but that pink spring in my pic is NOT on wrong,if you turned it around to have the coils off the brake shoe,the side you are talking about hooking on the brake adjuster lever is only half a loop and would fall right off the lever,look at the pics and you will see what I mean.This spring is just like the short one on top that also has a half loop hook that you put into the hole in the brake shoe.Anyway,drove the car alot today,and low and behold,PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!  Switching over to the 69 up style was the cure for my car(68).If you are still having problems with your rear brakes (69 and up),lets start here: first make sure the rubber flex hose that drops down onto rear is new,heres why.I personally had one of these flex hoses annurize inside and only let fluid go thru but not come back,thus holding fluid pressure against wheel cylinders which is like applying the brakes.Second,like someone else said,make sure your drums are not excessively worn and could be flexing and then warp, and when that happens when your brake shoe hits that wide spot and extends,It will adjust to the large diameter it sees,and then be tight on the remainder of the circumfrance.Third,with all this being in proper working condition,with you drums off,grab the e-brake cable in front of the leaf spring where it switches to two seperat lines and pull down on each to check that they slide smoothly and operate each side freely.With drums on,you should have just a little slack on the e-brake cable coming from the front of car.If that threaded adjuster rod has to much tension on it,the front,small shoe ,could have a little force already on the drum without the brakes being applied,causing premature brake wear.Notice the difference between the two year designs,68 is a solid cable going down to the lever,and the 69 up has a spring on the end of it.If you get on the brakes hard,and the shoes are in adjustment,when the motion of the shoes trying to go forward tightens up on that cable,the little green spring takes up the tension being applied on it,and therefore does'nt pull  the star wheel into adjustment further.Because of my brakes that kept tightening,one of my drums got warped,so I just bit the bullit and bought everything new,and glad I did because now it is a joy to drive.

[resq302]

Good to hear that you got it fixed and figured out what was the problem.  I never knew there was a difference between 68 and 69 shoes.

[TylerCharger69]

Yeah   i just noticed that my springs are a bit different  than the ones in the pic.   And then I realized......Jeeeees......this is a Ford rear end.....no wonder it looks different...Sometimes it just doesn't pay to get out of bed...lol

[grouseman]

Good work!  Congratulate yourself with a cruise tonight!