starting problems when hot

[steves66]

Well its one thing after the other with this car. I am having starting problems now when the engine is hot. I think the starter might be getting heat soaked. The car starts perfect when cold, but after you drive her around for a while and shut her down for about 5-10 minutes and try to start back its like the battery is dead. The starter will crank very, very slow for about 2 revs then stop. Try again and same thing. After about 30 minutes when cooled down she fires up like nothing was ever wrong. The battery is new, the stater is a new Power Master high torque mini, new 1 gauge cables pos and neg. Checked all grounds. I put a heat blanket on the starter and I have a heat shield to try and help block the heat from the 2" TTI headers. Any suggestions?

[firefighter3931]

Sounds like heat soak.  Steve, how hot is the engine running ? Those headers are ceramic coated right ? My buddy that runs the 671 blown 440 in his Coronet has some header wrap near the tubes and it seems to start up ok when hot. That might be worth a try.


Ron

[steves66]

It sounds like heat soak to me too Ron. The engine will climb to 205* sometimes while cruising, but ideling in the garage for 25 minutes or more the engine never sees 180*. I am hoping it will start to run cooler once it gets good and broke in. I still haven't got 100 miles on her! The TTI's are ceramic coated. I wouldn't think this starter should have already gave up in 3 months. I have heard that the header wraps will rust the headers.

[firefighter3931]

Steve, the header wrap can cause rust issues if it gets wet and holds moisture. The ceramic coating should help with corrosion protection and avoiding the rain will keep the wrap dry. The engine should also be loosening up over the next several hundred miles.

How is the new tranny working ? Did you adjust the kick down yet ?


Ron

[steves66]

Ron I adjusted the likage like you described with the pedal all the way to the floor and took out the slack in the linkage. It didn't change anything. I was going to adjust the front band and this is when I discovered the starter problem. I adjusted the linkage and took it out for a spin to see if it helped, stopped to get gas and wouldn't crank until it was cool. So now I am here asking more questions. Getting the bugs worked out of the Copper Bandit is beginning to wear me down.

[firefighter3931]

Steve, how about giving Hensley's a call. Outline the 2-3 shift overlap problem and see what they say. Give the wrap a try, if that doesn't work then the starter is the issue. There are different band adjustment specs depending on the ratio of the kickdown lever....it could be that simple.

The bandit is just testing you.....he's making you pay because he knows you're gonna play ! 


Ron

[grouseman]

Back off the timing about 10º or so, and it should start. 

[rt green]

headerwrap the starter

[steves66]

New mini starter, wrapped the header tubes at the starter location, fabricated a heat shield, and she now starts when shes hot!

[firefighter3931]

New mini starter, wrapped the header tubes at the starter location, fabricated a heat shield, and she now starts when shes hot!

What brand of starter did you go with Steve ? FWIW, i've heard of heat soak issues with the powermaster starters.....you would think for the price that they sell for there would be NO problems ! 

Good to hear the Bandit is up n running !   


Ron

[steves66]

New mini starter, wrapped the header tubes at the starter location, fabricated a heat shield, and she now starts when shes hot!

What brand of starter did you go with Steve ? FWIW, i've heard of heat soak issues with the powermaster starters.....you would think for the price that they sell for there would be NO problems ! 

Good to hear the Bandit is up n running !   


Ron

I bought a Nippondenso gear reduction starter. After I bought my powermaster starter I have heard several people having problems with PM starters, so I kinda figured I was on borrowed time with mine.

[firefighter3931]

Steve, and anyone else reading this thread : Here's a link to an excellent product....these starters are highly recommended by everyone i talked to. I just ordered one myself a month ago. 

The nice feature with this one is the internal solenoid which helps with the heat soak issue.


Link :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-MINI-MOPAR-DODGE-PLYMOUTH-STARTER-HIGHER-TORQUE_W0QQitemZ8065486133QQcategoryZ33576QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Ron

[steves66]

Ron, I saw those and wanted to buy one, but luckily the parts store here reimbursed my money from my PM starter only if I would buy another starter from them, they didn't have to, but since I am buying stuff from them all the time he cut me some slack. If this one goes bad I will be buying one from the ebay guy.

[ChargerRob]

Steve, I use to have basically the same problem with my 69 440 Charger R/T. Drove me crazy. I checked and cleaned all the connections to the starting system to no avail. Before I started to trouble shoot the rest of the system, (IE: solenoid, starter)  I received new battery cables I had ordered from Rick Keesler. I installed them and believe it or not I have not had the problem arise again. My car starts perfectly everytime hot or cold. The cables look just like the originals except they are much thicker. Hopefully this helps.   Robert

[firefighter3931]

the parts store here reimbursed my money from my PM starter only if I would buy another starter from them, they didn't have to, but since I am buying stuff from them all the time he cut me some slack.

Well that doesn't happen very often ! Thumbs up to your parts guy 


Ron

[steves66]

Steve, I use to have basically the same problem with my 69 440 Charger R/T. Drove me crazy. I checked and cleaned all the connections to the starting system to no avail. Before I started to trouble shoot the rest of the system, (IE: solenoid, starter)  I received new battery cables I had ordered from Rick Keesler. I installed them and believe it or not I have not had the problem arise again. My car starts perfectly everytime hot or cold. The cables look just like the originals except they are much thicker. Hopefully this helps.   Robert

Thanks Rob, but unfortunatly that didn't work for me. I replace both my cables with 2 gauge, two grounds to the block- one at the motor mount and one on the top mounting stud for the starter. The new starter seemed to do the trick for me so far. Another thing the new starter cranks much faster than the PM did.

[chrisII]

that ebay starter is a denso (it even says so) and its basicly (or is) the same starter that they used in the magnum V8s and V6. they are a great unit, its nice to see somebody is selling them at a good price on ebay. they are like $125 at most parts stores without a core.basicly the only thing that wears out in them is the selonoid, and they are even good enough to warn you for a while before they go out. (it will take several "klicks" before the starter actually engadges.)