How Does Flipping Affect This Hobby?

[69chargeryeehaa]

i've flipped cars for the past 10 years, and the key to making $ at it is to be reasonable.  i've had over 60 cars, and made money on all of them except for 1 (i don't wanna talk about it right now )  but basically i try to enjoy them all for a bit and move on, constantly upgrading my collection as i go along with the extra $ i make.  basically i find those "once in a lifetime" deals all the time, and then i flip the car for a very reasonable price, but often end up doing some work on them too.  so if i steal a car i sell it for a good deal, and don't rape the next guy, but rather sell for a very good price, and make a resonable proffit.  it's what allows me to get better cars for myself.  i now basically have moved up to some perty nice cars, which with a little work along the way cost me nothing. 

i bought a 71 porsche 911T from a lady that was selling her husbands porsche cause they split up and got the car for $4500 cash; her full asking price, there was 5 people looking at the car when i came, but i had cash .  i drove the car for a month or so, and sold it for $10000, which was still a really good price for the car, i could have sold it for $20k, but i wanted to move it, make my $ and make another guy happy, with no headakes, i price my cars so they allways sell to the first guy that looks at it for full asking price. 

as is the same as my 1969 charger i bought last sept, the add came out, i called and called, left messages, and never got a reply, the guy was a trucker i later found out, and the add came out thursday, and he came home friday late at night.  so off to the cottage i went (i reverse looked up the phone number on the net, and knew where the car was; sneeky eh? ) , with hopes to get the car, he returned 3 calls sat morning and they all came to look, he said that prople were calling offering $5k over his price without seeing the car, and i called bright and early sat morning, luckly he answered the phone.  he was asking $12k for the car, i went to the bank and pulled out $12k, and drove 100kms north of my cottage to get the car.  when i got there 2 mins later the next guy shows up from a 2 hour drive to see the car, but i beat him to it.  we both looked at the car and he said i was there first, and out of respect i have first dibs, i showed him my huge sweaty lump of cash and he knew i ment business.  i gave the guy $12k, did'nt even try to bargin, and the other guy said "you should at least give him $500 off the asking price" and he did, so i picked up the car for $11500.  drove off.   this ones a keeper, 440/727/83/4 3.23's!!!!   i've been looking for a 69 charger for 8yrs, they were all either over priced, or junk.  basically $1000 came out of my pocket to buy the charger, i flipped 3 cars to make the $, all good cars, that i had to buy for the $, they were 75 porsche 914 (bought off original owner), 65 dodge polara (mint), and a 66 ford galaxie convertable (also original owner, spare motor and trans!!!).  on those 3 cars i made about $10K.  so does it hurt the hobby? i think not, if done fair.

[nh_mopar_fan]

Bull makes an interesting point.  Not so long ago, this was just a hobby and that was all it was.  Very suddenly it became a business as well.  A large business at that. 

Not all that different than what happened with baseball cards and comics. More with cards. The scumbags ruined a kids hobby to the point where they priced lots of kids right out of it.  Prices cliffed and many of these speculators were left holding lots of cards and took a bath.

Prices are high right now. Rest assured, for all but the most desirable cars, prices will come down at some point. Hopefully, the bottom feeders are left holding some real overpriced stuff when it happens.

[Brock Samson]

, I'll take it today",.. but also tell her, It's worth alot more then she thinks... 

Now the dude with seven cars,..  who sold me the '71 340 runner for $ 14.4,
so he could restore his beloved '69 Chevy Fleetside,.. bought it from the orig. owner for...


... ... ...wait for it....




...........
no wait..






...$ 4K!

So hows THAT for a profit margin?..

the NADA guide says a car in similar cond. is worth $ 17-22 +K ?..
someone who's opinion i respect, told me that's low..
Ya' think that's right?.. 
Barrett Jackson here I come!
(kiddin') 

I plan on enjoying fixing her up and bringing her back from 20 years of neglect myself,..  and, seeing if i can boost it to a 20 + K car,.. on a seven grand budget.
meanwhile enjoying one of my dream cars...
I allways wanted one, didn't think it was gonna be possible...
I have to Thank God and my parents for that...
You guys know from my posts i been chomping at the bit for another vintage original Daily Driver...
maybe in a year or two it'll be ready for prime time...

  I think it's a great hobby,..  if ya' have the resources!
  i was just lucky to have recived a lump sum,.. that made it possible to swing...

maybe i'll parlay it into a triple black, '69 Plymouth GTX convert. four speed...
somehow...                                                                                                                                        

[twilt]

I`ve pretty much financed my cars and parts collection by buying parts cars, keeping what i want/need and selling/flipping the rest. I went on a 3 day, 1500 mile, 5 state, junkyarding expedition last week. Spent $1800... will "flip" the parts for around 8k. That will  go a long way in helping me pay for my next 72 Charger. I probably go to junkyards 100-120 days out of the year. (spent 3 miserable hours in one today in 95 degree heat) I dont necessarily focus on flipping mopar parts.

I think most of the anti-flipper rhetoric comes from people who are too lazy to find their own deals and are jealous of those who do.

[Chris G.]

I think most of the anti-flipper rhetoric comes from people who are too lazy to find their own deals and are jealous of those who do.

No offense Twilt, but I could have sold my Charger two weeks after buying it and bought your entire fleet and still have a large chunk of cash in my pocket. It's not about jealousy to me, it's all about the love for the hobby. I like the guy who finds a good deal because he has been searching forever for his dream car. I don't like the guy who finds a deal strictly to get it home, wash it and double the price for that same guy that has been searching for his dream car. Call me whatever you want, but that's me. And since when has searching ebay 20hrs a day looking for that all-mighty "But It Now" option been considered "energetic"? That's lazy my friend. Guy's that say they went the extra mile to get a car and deserve a nice profit are so full of it. You guys know who you are. 

That's all I gotta say on this...happy now Shakey?    Have a wonderful day everyone. I don't hate anybody on a personal level because of what they do BTW.

ps- Todd Wilson had the best post in this entire thread. Crickets everywhere when he posted that. 

[69charger2002]

no offense Twilt, but I could have sold my Charger two weeks after buying it and bought your entire fleet and still have a large chunk of cash in my pocket

well i don't even know what to say there.. wow.. that was harsh..i'm SURE he won't take offense to that cheap shot..... and in response to todd's comment..i think it was more the off topic/randomness that didn't provoke a reply than crickets.. i for one am not worried about the IRS,i don't owe them any money. most of the ones i flip i haven't even owned.. they were never officially my cars.. all i did was help last seller turn it over to the new buyer.. the ones that end up in my name, about 12 of them, are all still in my name.. and i paid plenty of taxes on those.. i now have 35 people on my flipper video list.. i think chris is being bashful.. i'll get the pm soon though

[twilt]

Naw.... i wont take offense to the cheap shot.  If it is true,so be it....it simply doesnt matter to me.  I`m happy with my "fleet" and thats all that matters to me. 

[Chris G.]

well i don't even know what to say there.. wow.. that was harsh..i'm SURE he won't take offense to that cheap shot.....

Why should he take offense Trav? He basically said anyone that doesn't agree with flipping is just lazy or jealous. In my case, that is entirely incorrect. Do you get it now? Twilt is a big boy. I think I remember him trying to sell those "Topper" cars because he thought they were valuable. Maybe I'm wrong?

If the majority of this board agree's with you and what you guys do, that is fine and dandy. I for one, am from a different breed. That's not too hard for you to understand, is it?

ps- The only PM's you get from me, are replies to PM's you have sent me.  

pss- Todd's comment is still the most credible and honest reply in this thread. Downplay it all you want.

[twilt]

Why should he take offense Trav? He basically said anyone that doesn't agree with flipping is just lazy or jealous. In my case, that is entirely incorrect. Do you get it now? Twilt is a big boy. I think I remember him trying to sell those "Topper" cars because he thought they were valuable. Maybe I'm wrong?

Actually, i said " most of the anti-flipper rhetoric...." and i believe that to be true. You may be an exception to that. You have different reasons, which is fine with me. We may not agree,  but i can respect your opinion. 

You are wrong about me trying to sell the Topper cars because i thought they were valuable. You probably have mistaken me for Stormhammer, who DID think that his Topper car was REAL rare and valuable because it had a mock turtle top. I did happen to buy that car from him at a price that was less than 1/2 of his initial asking price. I know better than to think a topper means diddly. 318 bench/column cars just  aren`t valuable. They are what they are, and i modify them to my own tastes. (clone cars) Matter of fact, i have only sold one Charger in the last 10 years. I sold a 74 parts car last year for a whopping 100 dollar profit when I decided i didnt want to take the time/effort of parting it out.     

[JimShine]

I flip guitars. It bought me a nice collection, an okay bank account, made me an okay living (not luxurious). But by now they are like livestock to me. The old sense of awe and appreciation I had is gone and they are now just another form of currency. I would hate to have the same thing happen with my cars.

[Chris G.]

You are wrong about me trying to sell the Topper cars because i thought they were valuable. You probably have mistaken me for Stormhammer, who DID think that his Topper car was REAL rare and valuable because it had a mock turtle top.      

My bad Twilt, I was mistaken. Sorry about that. Now I remember Stormhammer.

And yes I am one of the exceptions. 

[greenpigs]

How could getting money for next to nothing be bad?

The only thing I don't like is BS someone that you want the car and play on a person pity for a lower price, when they plan on selling before the title is cold.

Sure it is a way to make more $, but a sleasy way to do it.

[Chad L. Magee]

I don't mind flippers, as long as they want to make a reasonable profeit and not trying to become a millionare off of a /6, 318, 383 car.  If they bought the car or part, then they own it and are free to sell it for what they think that they can get for it.  The market will dictate what it will actually bring (but there are a few exceptions to this too-BJ being one).  I have only filpped one car (a 1980 Mustang Cobra I bought for $200 and sold for $700 one year later) and bought a 68 Mustang coupe with the profiet.  Rather than flipping, I hold onto most of what I buy, as either permanent holdings or trading stock incase I may need them for later deals (most of my Mustangs are in this catagory).  As for the hemi deals, I have a different take on it.  Yes, you can sometimes stumble upon incredible deals and can take a fast buck, but later on, you will usually regret selling the car.  My hemi car is in my permanent holdings and I knew that the second that the deal was done to get it.  I would rather have it sitting in my garage gradually being restored then as money in the bank (for that, I have coins that I can flip).  Nowdays, I would have to sell off a lot of holdings (that I don't want to) to get even a rough hemi car (especially if it is an ebody).  I actually hate that prices have gone up so much lately as I need many parts for it and did not plan on needing $1500-2000 for a "correct" radiator that still needs record to be working.  Over the past decade, I have been hounded by people thinking that they can "take me" on my first 69 Charger (a complete 383HP car) that I have sitting at the house.  Even last year, I had someone try to offer $500 for it, thinking that I don't know what I have.  I shot back "add a 15 in front of the 500 and then I will consider it".  He left quickly.  Would I really sell it if he had that amount of cash on him?  No.  I am not into this hobby as a means to just make a fast buck, I would have had to hit pretty hard times before I would even consider it.  Someday, I plan on opening a car museum in the future and the money that the museum makes will only be used for the upkeep on cars and the occational addition to it0.  Taking avantage of the little old lady is just wrong in my book, you should help her sell the car for what it is really worth and profiet from knowing you helped her out rather than just cash in the bank.  The world would be better off if more people used that type of thinking IMHO.......... 

[Shakey]

I think most of the anti-flipper rhetoric comes from people who are too lazy to find their own deals and are jealous of those who do.

No offense Twilt, but I could have sold my Charger two weeks after buying it and bought your entire fleet and still have a large chunk of cash in my pocket. It's not about jealousy to me, it's all about the love for the hobby. I like the guy who finds a good deal because he has been searching forever for his dream car. I don't like the guy who finds a deal strictly to get it home, wash it and double the price for that same guy that has been searching for his dream car. Call me whatever you want, but that's me. And since when has searching ebay 20hrs a day looking for that all-mighty "But It Now" option been considered "energetic"? That's lazy my friend. Guy's that say they went the extra mile to get a car and deserve a nice profit are so full of it. You guys know who you are. 

That's all I gotta say on this...happy now Shakey?    Have a wonderful day everyone. I don't hate anybody on a personal level because of what they do BTW.

ps- Todd Wilson had the best post in this entire thread. Crickets everywhere when he posted that. 

Oh yeah - now maybe I'll get some sleep tonight.   

In reality, I was thinking you would have taken the opportunity to chime in much sooner with reasons as to why you hate dealers and dislike flippers.

You seem so defensive - what gives?   

You're entitled to your opinion and you certainly don't have to justify it to me or others.  I was simply hoping for mature and open discussion highlighting the pros & cons of the dealers / flippers.

I think we all play a role within this hobby.  Some folks sell cars, some folks restore cars, some folks reproduce parts, some folks part out cars that are beyond saving, some folks set up registries and some folks simply share their experiences with others to help in any way they can.

We may not like all aspects of the hobby but I feel all of these different folks are needed.  You may not have any use for all of them, but others may.   

[nakita7]

Flippers are not Mopar lovers...don't blur the lines.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Flippers are not Mopar lovers...don't blur the lines.

Well said

[69charger2002]

i, for one, totally disagree with that statement. do you seriously think that if a person flips 20 mopars in order to keep 2-3 nice ones and have them paid for.. let's say.. that he is not a true mopar lover?? there are a lot of guys on this site that have or are doing this to pay for their cars.. how are they any less passionate?? please explain this to me..

[topduarte]

i, for one, totally disagree with that statement. do you seriously think that if a person flips 20 mopars in order to keep 2-3 nice ones and have them paid for.. let's say.. that he is not a true mopar lover?? there are a lot of guys on this site that have or are doing this to pay for their cars.. how are they any less passionate?? please explain this to me..

totally agree!!!

[Ghoste]

Let me ask you this Trav.  If the value and market for these cars completely went away so that it was impossible to finance your good cars by selling the lesser ones, would you get out of the hobby or would you possibly buy even more because others were almost giving them away?

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

You'd probably see a yard full of Fords or Chevys.....what ever is hot at the time

[Ghoste]

   Ouch.  No shot across the bow there. 

[69charger2002]

i almost feel like there is no love between any chris's and me on this site.  especially the ones that own other sites.. not sure why..chea[ shots thrown left and right..  but anyway. ghoste to answer your question. honestly.. if the market bombed and a project charger was worth less than a mcdonald's happy meal, i would stop right where i'm at, and just keep what i have. would i go buy more? ONLY if they were down the street. i would be fine keeping every car in the yard that i have bought..i don't have to sell them at all to survive. my wife on the other hand..
it all happened by accident anyway. i got "talked out of" my first 3 chargers i ever bought because people offered dumb money at the time.. and being in college, it paid off my student loans, AND i went out and found a couple more chargers to boot.. it grew from there.. getting out of hand really only in the last 2 years.. fords and chevy's??? NEVER. i'd still have my charger collection.. i would just have to break open the checking account to maintain them, instead of selling off parts.. which is my plan for the next few years after all the "sellable" cars are gone. to each his own i guess. i have formulated my plan to get where i want in life without robbing a bank or stepping on TOO many people's toes... so i am making it happen..
trav

ps funny how no one backed up that retarded statement a few lines up.. .just one that agreed for no apparent reaso. prove i am not a true mopar lover please

[Chris G.]

i almost feel like there is no love between any chris's and me on this site.  especially the ones that own other sites.. not sure why..chea[ shots thrown left and right.. 

FYI Trav, it was you who came after me first. I posted in another thread and you decided to take it upon yourself to dive in and come after me. Then the PM's started rolling in. I thought we had it settled, but then this thread rolls around and once again you reply to my post to another member. It sounds like you are the one that's trying to take the cheap shots.

The whole "you're not a Mopar lover if you flip" comment is not something I really agree with. I do agree that the word Flip and Hobby are not in the same book. If you flip, you flip. If you flip and enjoy the hobby, then so be it. Anything else you need to talk to me about?

[topduarte]

i almost feel like there is no love between any chris's and me on this site.  especially the ones that own other sites.. not sure why..chea[ shots thrown left and right.. 

FYI Trav, it was you who came after me first. I posted in another thread and you decided to take it upon yourself to dive in and come after me. Then the PM's started rolling in. I thought we had it settled, but then this thread rolls around and once again you reply to my post to another member. It sounds like you are the one that's trying to take the cheap shots.

The whole "you're not a Mopar lover if you flip" comment is not something I really agree with. I do agree that the word Flip and Hobby are not in the same book. If you flip, you flip. If you flip and enjoy the hobby, then so be it. Anything else you need to talk to me about?

Trav,

Don't worry about what others say IMO.   I wish I was in your shoes to buy more cars and flip them for some $$$.  I have done that to a few cars.  Eventually I will pick up the place in that arena.

As I said before, you snooze, you lose!!!  I did the same thing with old toys.  Would find good deals at garage sales or ebay, and I would turn around and "sell them" back on ebay.  This got me free money and only involved some of my time on the internet, some time boxing the toys up and time to the post office.  It was a great hobby of mine for about 5 years.  Wife liked it because it did not involve our checking accounts.

Now it is time to move onto bigger toys (real cars, trucks)

in the business world , there is flipping going on every day.  Business is about making $$$ and if the business do not jump on a great deal, how are they suppose to survive??

Point to ponder!!

Just my $.02!!!

[69charger2002]

couldn't agree more topduarte.. chris g. no man, we're good. we have totally different opinions on this topic, and we can agree to disagree at this point. you do not agree with what i do.  but you seem to respect(somewhat) why i'm doing it. on the FLIP side.. sorry couldn't resist..  i respect your opinion about your feelings towards flipping cars and being good/bad for the hobby. there is nothing else to discuss. this topic has not spawned cheap shots towards me from you, and i didn't mean that directly to you. my apologies.. let's just make peace. i am a mopar lover by choice, not some made up belief in my head. and yes i do flip a few cars, so be it chargers.. to fuel my passion. so be it
trav