How Does Flipping Affect This Hobby?

[Shakey]

Saw a thread this weekend that got me to thinking:  How does flipping affect this hobby?

What are the negative and positive aspects?

I am guessing the definition of flipping would be:

One that buys a car or a part with intentions of selling it for profit.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with that, hence this thread / question(s).

Let's keep it mature folks, no need to bash anyone or call anyone names, please.  Stick to the facts.  We can (hopefully) have a decent discussion where everyone can state their opinions, along with facts about this obviously touchy subject.

Be cool!   

[Ghoste]

I'd agree with your definition.  I think that flipping didn't start to get a negative connotation until the vultures came out on e-bay and the stupid rich began throwing money around on televised auctions.  It has given people the perception that there are no deals left and that every clown who drags an old Mopar from the swamp expects to get stinking rich from it's sale.  This, in turn, has made people angry when someone does find a good deal and instead of passing on the good fortune, "flips" the car.
Truth is, the western economy is based on flipping of all kinds.  This particular niche just seems to have gotten a dirty reputation IMHO.

[Lowprofile]

For the most part, I have no problem with it................but, the one thing I do see it doing is putting the "little guy" at a dis-advantage, especially a person who doesn't have deep pockets, or more precisely, one who works on a tight budget and doesn't have the means to "scoop up" that great deal on egouge or at the swap meet at a moments notice. As both cars & parts supplies dwindle in the years to come, I am afraid this phenomenon will affect us all, good and bad.  

[Charger_Fan]

Damn, you guys type faster than me.

From my viewpoint, flipping inflates the market.
In some ways, I see it as a necessary evil though...on the one hand, there's people who want the cars but don't know where to get them (or are too friggin' lazy to go look)...then on the other hand, there's guys who have a knack & the means to go find these cars, who then sell them to folks who can't find them.
I can understand that the sellers should be able to earn a meager profit on the fruits of their labor...the problem is of course, when the profit margin of said flipping starts getting into a rediculous greed range, that's when it ruins the hobby by taking it away from the people who care most about these cars...or at least making it harder to reach.

The thing about flipping that sucks to me, is when someone snags a car from someone wanting it to go to a good home (usually going for a good deal on that pretense), the whole time the buyer is telling the seller "I'm gonna keep this baby forever" & crap like that...then 2 weeks later, it's on eGouge for triple the original price.
That blows.

[dodgecharger-fan]

The thing about flipping that sucks to me, is when someone snags a car from someone wanting it to go to a good home (usually going for a good deal on that pretense), the whole time the buyer is telling the seller "I'm gonna keep this baby forever" & crap like that...then 2 weeks later, it's on eGouge for triple the original price.
That blows.

I think THAT's closer to the definition of "flipping."

I don't see any problem with someone who goes out and digs up a good deal - I mean really does the work to track it down, gets it - and then expects to re-sell it for profit.
Heck, they're doing the hobby a service by finding these hidden gems and getting them to market.

It's the deeper-pocketed guy that does little work to find the car and expects to turn the car around with no work done to it and make a profit that far out weighs the value put into it that I would call a "flipper."
Value, in this case, would equate to something like: the purchase cost, parts and labour added, license/registration costs, and I would expect one to try and get their transport costs back as well as a bit of profit to cover the "opportunity loss" of having money tied up in the car. Maybe a few other things I haven't thought of..
Some flippers don't even see the car and expect to make big dollars.

Hey, a nice finder's fee to hook a buyer and seller up is okay, but that's not "flipping," that's brokering and there's nothing wrong with that either.

[69charger2002]

i think EVERYONE should do it!!!!!
i am going to make a CD and sell it starting next month for $19.99 PLUS shipping of course. Trav's instructional video for flipping 1968-1970 dodge chargers! i could make even more money to put towards my cars.. how many want to preorder???  limited supply!!   


ok i'm in bad mood sorry.. i don't see what the big problem is, but my days of doing it, at least on a "regular" basis are very numbered.. i have sold 11 in the last 2 months, i am almost where i want to be with my collection, and then i have to build a house.. so it has all worked out. do i regret doing it? HELL no, i'm sorry if some(though it seems VERY few) people had a problem with me or my "hobby outside the hobby".. but if i hadn't done that for the last 5 years.. i would maybe have one charger in primer by now with my own money... instead i have a nice collection coming along, and my wife is still with me because i haven't overdrawn the checking account to get them. in 10 years it will all be a distant memory anyway, but the cars will still be here.. so it's ALL GOOD. i feel like the luckiest guy alive..i'm not gonna let a few "flipper" haters ruin my charger dreams
trav

[topduarte]

i think EVERYONE should do it!!!!!
i am going to make a CD and sell it starting next month for $19.99 PLUS shipping of course. Trav's instructional video for flipping 1968-1970 dodge chargers! i could make even more money to put towards my cars.. how many want to preorder???  limited supply!!   


ok i'm in bad mood sorry.. i don't see what the big problem is, but my days of doing it, at least on a "regular" basis are very numbered.. i have sold 11 in the last 2 months, i am almost where i want to be with my collection, and then i have to build a house.. so it has all worked out. do i regret doing it? HELL no, i'm sorry if some(though it seems VERY few) people had a problem with me or my "hobby outside the hobby".. but if i hadn't done that for the last 5 years.. i would maybe have one charger in primer by now with my own money... instead i have a nice collection coming along, and my wife is still with me because i haven't overdrawn the checking account to get them. in 10 years it will all be a distant memory anyway, but the cars will still be here.. so it's ALL GOOD. i feel like the luckiest guy alive..i'm not gonna let a few "flipper" haters ruin my charger dreams
trav

I agree, if it is there and can make a few buck to support your hobby, then go for it.  I used to do the same thing with selling old toys on ebay in the late 90's.  I made money to have some free cash for my other hobbies.  Never took a cent our of our checking acount and wife was happy with that plus it kept me out of trouble!!

[Recharger]

Truth is, the western economy is based on flipping of all kinds.  This particular niche just seems to have gotten a dirty reputation IMHO.

[SuBLimE 69]

I say Flipping the cars are fine.  Whats wrong with making a few bucks doing something you can enjoy ?  If you are buying cars that otherwise will sit and rot and only to sell the vehicle to someone who will restore the vehicle I AM ALL FOR IT.   Nothing wrong with making a few bucks flipping cars with good intentions and honest descriptions.   Now those halpg bastrads are another story.  Those people are simply thevies and would rip their mother off to make a quick buck.  Those guys are simply bad for the hobby.

[Lowprofile]

I agree. HALPG     trav    Hey trav, any luck finding me a steering column yet?   

[Blusmbl]

I'll flip anything, anywhere, anytime!



Only problem is, I've never made money on anything I've sold.  I have no idea why? 

[RD]

if i flipped chevy's and ford's to support my mopar habit, everyone here would congratulate me.

that, in itself, gives you something to ponder on dontcha think?

flipping, capitalism at its greatest!

they call him flipper, flipper, flipper, faster than lightning!

[Steve P.]

I agree with RD. My buddy has a used car lot and FLIPS every car he can get his hands on.. It has been his living for over 35 years. Today he FLIPPED a 92' Dodge Maxi van. Last week he flipped a POS Toyleta.

His nephew FLIPS houses for a living.  The facts are simple. We all make money somehow. As long as your not selling drugs to kids or robbing little old ladies your doing pretty much what everyone else is doing. Trav hit it a bit harder with his quip about selling a (how to do it) CD. People make millions on HOW TO books, video's and CDs. It's no joke!!

Now the ones that piss me off are the mega rich that don't need to make any more money.. I don't think we have any of those guys here.. I'm talking about those jerks spending over a million bucks on a 1970 Chevelle LS-6.  Or $285,000 on a low millage Road Runner.  I saw an interview at an auction where the guy that was outbid on a 64 or 65 Vette was pissed and admitted that (THAT JUST MEANS THAT NEXT YEAR I WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR THE SAME CAR).........  In my head I heard the gun go off!!

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

I think flipping is a part of life. I also believe it to be somewhat of a public service which most of you will think I am crazy for saying. Lets say you go to a local swap meet or even your buddies barn and buy an old car or lets say a rare set of wheels for just a fraction of what they are worth. Most time the seller is more than happy to have sold it for what or near what they were asking and you have just gotten a deal that no one else might have saw. You take it home and find out that you can make a pretty decent profit on this item. Put it up for sale on the internet and most likely Ebay and let millions of people have the chance to buy it. Whats wrong with that. They are getting a chance to buy something they couldn't have before and you can make a little extra money to help yourself which in my case always help me especially with the way the ecomony is today. What do you think all car dealers do with car is flip them. Buy them from the auction take them back to the lot wash them up and slap an extra $1000, $2000, $5000 on to what they just paid and they sell it no questions asked. But everybody on this board has bought from them at one time or another and didn't bitch about it. I do also flip the occasional car, parts or even christmas items when the season arrives and if someone doesn't like it they don't have to buy anything from me. To me Ebay is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I will sell stuff on there until I can't sell anymore. Like it or leave it. I'll just sit back and watch the hate mail come in. Happy reading

[Brock Samson]

                                                                                                                                                      

               
I don't think we have any of those guys here.. I'm talking about those jerks spending over a million bucks on a 1970 Chevelle LS-6. Or
                                                 
$285,000 on a low millage Road Runner.

I didn't pay nearly that...  




http://redwood.ucdavis.edu/scott/research/dolphins/voc1.wav


i think these guys ought to be congradulated for doing so well in the hobby...
folks are just at all levels, some are starting out with rusty project Cars and others own dozens of HEMIs...
and have a stash of parts too.. 
It takes money to make money and if you think of these cars as collectables it's possible to work your way into a nice stable,..
I got three great cars right now,.. and given another chance i'd expand my collection,...
If i had the funds and stumbled onto other deals i would snap them up and enjoy them and parlay them into better vehicles myself...
                           
                                                                                 

a pretty girl was walking down the street and told me i have a "Great Collection",..

ya' that's right "collection"...
I did a double take as I i only heard the last part of the word.. 

[Charger Aficionado]

Okay, humor me on this...  On the basic premise of "Supply & Demand";

There are 9 '69 Chargers on eBay at the moment (1 is a scam 9k Daytona).  Last week there were only 3 '69s the day I looked. 

Don't you think if there was a 4th '69 on last week the prices on the other three would not have gone so high?  (It would have diverted a few bidders to the 4th car)... 

Of all the '69's I've listed I believe (adding to the assortment), has LOWERED the prices, not driven them up. 

ALOT of people do not know how to use eBay what-so-ever, so what you have to choose from is a small assortment, compared to everyone who WANTED to sell their cars.  THE MORE I PERSONALLY LIST, THE LOWER THE PRICES WILL BE SINCE IT BROADENS THE MARKET-BASE.  Besides the car will eventually probably make it's way there anyway.  I have done this since age 16 (purchased everyone I could find).  As well as what I've heard Travis had done in his younger years.  WE JUST LIKE THE CARS.  It is our own business which ones we choose to keep and not keep.  I think I illustrated it as well as I could, and I believe what I've said.  Can anyone give me a scenario where bringing cars to market INFLATES the prices?

Face it:  eBay prices are INFLATED, and there is nothing you can do about it.  Like buying a Coke out of a machine, you are paying for "CONVIENIENCE".  Now the upper middle-class armchair quarterback can snag a MoPar with the touch of a button.  ebay prices probably do "drive-up" prices of the cars overall, but with what I do I keep prices down on eBay.  (thankfully I figured-out how to list them, rather than selling to someone who probably would list it on eBay anyway). 

I have told Cathy that if we were to just immediatley post them after we bought one, we'd make alot more money, but we have decided to try to put them back together, and take some time on them...  Several have had trunkpans done, rust repair, etc...

[69charger2002]

finally i get some backup on here. i knew i wasn't the only one. just seems like mopars/chargers in general are the sensitive issue on this site. as with anything flipping causes 2 things. 1 the price sometimes to go up.. 2. sometimes the price comes down. because there is more availability of an item to the general public, which causes prices to drop. if you notice, with ebay specifically, when there are 25 68-70 dodge chargers on ebay at once, lots of times deals can be had.. look on there right now.. i have a 68 R/T body on ebay right now.. that i bought for $1600 a couple months ago. i have 2000 in it after going to georgia and getting it, then there will be more money from ebay listing fees.. it is at $1025 no reserve, so i may not even break even. to me it's just as much fun to drive up in a guy's driveway and buy the car, as it is to think of how much money can be made on it..

STRAT, why did i KNOW you were going to post that pic?!?! you devil!! lol

[Ghoste]

So it's an issue of semantics?

[RD]

this whole topic reminds me of something my wife said to me. 

but first, you have to understand that I am a college student, and my wife is a k-12 music teacher, so we do not make a lot of money at all.  I find cars for cheap, part them out, hold on to parts, packrat them, hide them, what have you...  and then life slaps my family right in the face.

those parts from the cars I got for dirt cheap that I parted out, has saved my family when medical bills hit the roof, or when we are just flat out broke.  I always know that I can sell something on ebay to help the family out in an emergency.

this leads us to what my wife said.  She said, "Jamey, ya know I used to hate you buying your cars, trading parts, and hoarding them.  But you know, those same parts have put bread on our table when we had no money to speak of."

NOTE:  I have never had put more into any car, than what I had got out of it.  I have always profited.  this profit, has fed my mopar habit through others parts, machine work, what have you

AND

it has bailed my family out of many financial binds, but has never created one.

don't know why I had to say all that, just sounded like it needed to be said.  take it for what it is I reckon.

[Mikesmopars01]

Flipping is flipping.  If I buy a car today, I will sell it tomarrow if I know it will make me some cash to go find the next one.
For me personally it is the thrill of the hunt.  There is nothing better than finding that Mopar parked in a driveway or barn or field. 

If you do not get it, someone else will.

[Ghoste]

Is there a point though where the profit made from flipping goes from fair and just to obscene and detrimental?  And if there is, where is that point?

[Mikesmopars01]

That point would be Pride.  When someone does not care what they pay for it, as long as they get it.

[Steve P.]

Is there a point though where the profit made from flipping goes from fair and just to obscene and detrimental?  And if there is, where is that point?

Yes... I don't know what the "cut off" should be or how to begin to figure it out, but, YES!!!!  That is what I was trying to say about these richie rich SOB's that are sending the prices to the moon at the big auctions. All they are concerned with is spreading their wings like a peacock.. (LOOK AT ME.... LOOK AT ME.....) THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT PISS ME OFF.......  Take your millions and help cure cancer or MS.. They could realllllly do all of us some justice by going back to the stock market and leave us little piss ants alone.. How long will it be until they pay $400,000 for a 1980 Chevette?? 

Strat, the RRunner I saw go out of sight was a 68 or 9 rag top. 

[Ghoste]

So who is really the bad guy then?  The buyer for having so much money that he will just pay whatever it takes and doesn't care?  Or the seller who decides that instead of putting a car on the market for X amount of money, sets it up in an auction situation where he is going to shoot for triple Z amount because even though he knows the car isn't worth it, he also knows some fool will pay it?

[Mikesmopars01]

Is there a BAD person?