Naked Daytona Pictures!

[Old Moparz]

I just swiped these from Moparts & figured they might help someone who's piecing a Daytona together. It's not too often you get to see one that's naked.    Sorry they're so large, but I didn't want to lose the details & not be able to see things.

**Link Removed**

[1968 Charger B5]

very nice

[41husk]

Nice! god I would love to have one of those

[ChargerRob]

Nice Pics. Thanks 

[Charger_Fan]

Cool pics, 4-speed car too.
I had forgotten about the screens under the fender scoops.

[BigBlockSam]

thanks for the pics, i'm printing them up rite now.   

[cudaken]

 From what I could tell the Daytona looks pretty solid. Better than some other ones I have seen. Hope I will be able to hook up with Geno some time soon to check's his out.

                                 Cuda Ken

[Nupe]

I had forgotten about the screens under the fender scoops.

WOAH!  Never knew that or saw them.     Is it just me or does that car look cool because it isn't over restored... yet??  Guess I'm old fashioned and like the rough cars that are works in progress.   

[6pkrunner]

Good to see another on the road to recovery. Hope the owner isn't in it for just the coins.

[BigBlockSam]

no it's not just you. i think the car looks great.

[Old Moparz]

According to the thread on Moparts, Dave (WINGCARS 6970) said the car was sold as you see it for almost 6 figures. Not something you want to hear if you're hunting for one.

I love Daytona Chargers, but that's just effen retarded.

[hotrod98]

allbluert,
I'm getting a quote on making the wing braces for inside the trunk. Rene (bigblocksam), loaned me his set to go by. If you're interested, I'll let you know my cost. No markup..just shipping. I'm like Dane, I'm not interested in doing this for profit.
I should know the price sometime this next week. Hopefully it will be a lot less than what some of the guys are getting for them.

[hotrod98]

I'll let you know as soon as I find out something. To keep cost down, I'll weld them myself. They're a lot more complicated than I ever realized. They're made from 16 gauge steel and my brake won't bend anything that thick so I had to go to plan "b". All four pieces are different of course and then there's the bottom tabs that mount to the floor. I'm not sure where Rene got these and whether or not they're identical to originals, but they look genuine. They actually look like the real thing and have been bolted in a car before. The bottom floor tabs are new but that would make sense since they are always the part that would rust out.
I need to check around and see who's interested. We may save a little more if we have them break up several sets. I've got 5 sets spoken for at this time including the two sets for mine and my wife's car. If you think of anyone, let me know.

[hotrod98]

It would blow your mind to see some of my wife's car both past and present. Her every day cars are a 2005 Daytona Ram and a 2000 Transam, modified of course.

[Old Moparz]

Especially since a completed one just sold for 110k.  Was it the four gear that made that one so special?
 
There was a guy local that inherited 11 Birds from his dad.  He sold them all with the last one being sold right before I offered the cash.  That was closest I'll ever have gotten to owning a real WING CAR.  The gap from selling what I have and buying one would require a second mortgage now.  
As long as clones don't start flooding the market, I think did pretty good with my trade.

I know four speeds have always been a hotter sale, but maybe there's more to it. It's also just what someone said they "heard" which could just be exaggerated. In my opinion, I don't believe all the stories of cars exchanging hands for these prices. (Maybe it's a partial conspiracy theory?) I say it's very possible that it's an artificial market to keep prices high for anyone who invests. Half million dollar Hemi cars aren't in the local classified & who actually sees that kind of cash exchanged? It's not like standing at a swap meet & seeing a customer fork over $50 to a vendor for a part.

I know what you're saying about chasing a real wing car & always missing out on it. I've been missing out for 25 years on them. The first one I tried to buy was a Superbird in the early 80's for $2200. I saw it & called about 2 hours after he sold it. The next one was in the mid 80's for $5300 & I couldn't sell a car fast enough, & it held up the deal so I had to decline. Another one I found was in 1990 for $15,000 & a nice driver. I had just bought my house so $15K was just as expensive as $15 Million. I gave up hunting for a while & decided I'd wait until I had my garage & would then take out a partial loan to get one.

By then, the prices were like you say, a second mortgage. My wife wouldn't have a problem with that, knowing the cars are better than stocks, but I have a problem with it. I don't think any car whatsoever, is worth the kind of money people spend on them. To me, 6 figures is a house & not a toy. (Now houses are even too much.) I'd even feel that way if I could spend 6 figures on a toy. Ferraris, Lambos, etc., are not worth the money either. I'm sure people will disagree, but that's just where I stand on car values.

As for getting Dane's car with the trade/sale, I think you did good too. I wouldn't worry about replicas flooding the market though, it's still too specialized & isolated to hurt it. I'd be more worried about paying 6 figures & watching the market drop, which is inevitable btw.

[BigBlockSam]

a nice superbird clone just sold on ebay for $49000. buy it now price. so if you build a nice clone. it's money in the bank

I know what you're saying about chasing a real wing car 

i've had four chances to buy a real wing car. the first one was $7000. coulda been a million dollers. i just didn't have it.     Rene

[Old Moparz]

O.M., I was worried about being off topic but I see it's your thread.

I don't care what direction it goes, as long as it's worth reading. (Even then it's still okay.   ) Off topic don't matter, & I just figured it also keeps the Daytona photos circulated so others can find them too. I saw the way the nose area looked without the cone & knew it was rare that anyone gets to see it this way.

The only time I recall a thread of mine getting hijacked where it bugged me, was when the Wanna-unholy-440-darkness nimrod went off on his love of something stupid & embarrassing. (I don't even recall what it was either.)  

[MoparYoungGun]

Damn, all these pics and talk of Daytona's and Daytona clones make me want to build one (never could afford a real one). Definitley would be a neat car to have .

[Daytona Guy]

I'm thinking of making mine out of aluminum. It is softer and might brake better. What do you think?

[hotrod98]

Might not be a bad idea since like you said they're really cosmetic more than anything else. When Rene sent me his set, I was very surprised at how complicated they were at the top. Had never thought of the angles necessary to match up with the quarter panel below the wing. Of course you will have to tig them since they will be aluminum. I have a tig welder so that wouldn't really be a problem. I plan to tig these as opposed to migging since the tig makes a cleaner weld and you can control the penetration a little better. I'm anxious to find out what the fab shop is going to charge to break them up. I really want to make them as close to the set that Rene sent as possible to hopefully eliminate any problems with installation. My break will bend 18 gauge steel and probably 16 gauge aluminum, but the real mccoys were 16 gauge steel. I found a nice press break at Harbor Freight that also has a slip roller built in. The dies are made so that it can be used as a pan break as well which would be necessary to break the end of the brace. Oh yeah, one more thing...the fab shop is quoting with the holes and slots cut into the brace as well.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Might not be a bad idea since like you said they're really cosmetic more than anything else. When Rene sent me his set, I was very surprised at how complicated they were at the top. Had never thought of the angles necessary to match up with the quarter panel below the wing. Of course you will have to tig them since they will be aluminum. I have a tig welder so that wouldn't really be a problem. I plan to tig these as opposed to migging since the tig makes a cleaner weld and you can control the penetration a little better. I'm anxious to find out what the fab shop is going to charge to break them up. I really want to make them as close to the set that Rene sent as possible to hopefully eliminate any problems with installation. My break will bend 18 gauge steel and probably 16 gauge aluminum, but the real mccoys were 16 gauge steel. I found a nice press break at Harbor Freight that also has a slip roller built in. The dies are made so that it can be used as a pan break as well which would be necessary to break the end of the brace. Oh yeah, one more thing...the fab shop is quoting with the holes and slots cut into the brace as well.

Ted Janak's wing braces are made of steel, no fasteners are included, but they fit well and he sells them for $138 a set. These are what I have on my car.

Dayclona (G-series) sells a set for $200, comes with the hardware.

I work in a metal fab shop, we make stuff like this all the time. I'm sure we couldn't make these for $200 a set or less, not unless you want 500 sets! Set-up costs for small runs of a dozen or so pieces like this are very high.

These braces have some odd angles to them, and one part is a slip-fit inside the other-pretty tough to do on a hand brake and get the bend allowances right.

Bending aluminum can get tricky too, if you don't get the proper alloy material it will just snap in two when you try to bend it.

My advise is buy a set from one of the venders who already offer them.

[hotrod98]

I worked in a fab shop for years building aluminum components for AT&T. We had 5/1000's tolerance across 4 bends. I have to admit that I've never had an aluminum part snap in two. We even built mud flaps for tanks for the military from 6061 T6. As for bend allowance, that's easy to measure. The thing that I hate is not having the equipment at my disposal now. It was nice building pieces for my super comp dragster for the cost of materials. If I was just building a set of braces for myself, I would just use 18 gauge and use my break for the side bends and then weld the ends in place and install the reinforcement. I have all of the angles measured out.
As for Janeks pieces, I thought he told me that his were fiberglass. I most definitely could be wrong on that one though. I may have misunderstood him. I had him price out the components that I needed and when I asked him which parts were steel, he said that they were all fiberglass.

[Daytona Guy]

I have all of the angles measured out.

Can I get those?

[Old Moparz]

I'll hijack my own thread with this. Just spotted this ad on a Google search, it was posted November 2004 but I don't know when it sold.

http://www.moparstyle.net/classifiedads/showproduct.php?product=188&cat=4

Wasn't there a finished one that just sold on eBay? I wonder if this was the same one. I never cared for the ragtop versions of wing cars, they look way too low, & way too too long without the roof line. If I ever snag one of these cheap, I'd transfer the wing car stuff to a hardtop & put the ragtop back together with all the extra Road Runner parts I have stockpiled.

[hemigeno]

Especially since a completed one just sold for 110k.   Was it the four gear that made that one so special?
 

I know four speeds have always been a hotter sale, but maybe there's more to it. It's also just what someone said they "heard" which could just be exaggerated. In my opinion, I don't believe all the stories of cars exchanging hands for these prices. (Maybe it's a partial conspiracy theory?) I say it's very possible that it's an artificial market to keep prices high for anyone who invests. Half million dollar Hemi cars aren't in the local classified & who actually sees that kind of cash exchanged? It's not like standing at a swap meet & seeing a customer fork over $50 to a vendor for a part.

I think 4-gear Daytonas are a rare-enough breed to generate the kind of interest you guys are observing.   Out of the 139 440-4speed cars built, the WW & DSAC could account for 60 or less of them (that's the last figures I saw).   There might be a few more of them out there, but the chances of another 80 popping up are remote.

I was offered just short of 6 figures last year for my 4-speed project car, and it will require about as much work as this primer / blue /   F6 green car.   Of course being offered something for a car is different than it actually selling for that amount.

[BigBlockSam]

hey Moparts
that convertable bird ended up on ebay and was sold through ebay. i don't like them either. they look like there missing something. Rene

[wingcars6970]

Hi the naked daytona F6 4 speed daytona was down the road from me just a few miles.I missed buying the car for $25K .Many years ago.It was a guy who owned a body shop in philly pa.Frank Kopvocs old car .It was a solid car that was taken apart to change F6 green to petty blue.There are several more wingcars in my area none for sale though.I just help out with parts or services .I owned a few superbirds .And the one is on cars in barns as the OUCH car. I currently own a 440 daytona .I also have built some replicas ones as 1970 satelitte conv with all real superbird parts from a parts car used on a original FM3 satelliite ragtop.The car was in MCG in 1994.1969 Daytona 440 parked in 1977 22'000 original survivor car. Presently owned
1970 Coronet 500 383 Presently owned
1970 Superbird 440 U 166242
1970 Superbird 440 U 174597
1970 Superbird 440-6 V 179697
1970 Coronet RT 440 U 224126
1968 Road Runner 426 J 134509
1970 Daytona Replica 318 G 178701

[hemigeno]

Hi the naked daytona F6 4 speed daytona was down the road from me just a few miles.I missed buying the car for $25K .Many years ago.It was a guy who owned a body shop in philly pa.Frank Kopvocs old car .It was a solid car that was taken apart to change F6 green to petty blue.There are several more wingcars in my area none for sale though.I just help out with parts or services .I owned a few superbirds .And the one is on cars in barns as the OUCH car. I currently own a 440 daytona .I also have built some replicas ones as 1970 satelitte conv with all real superbird parts from a parts car used on a original FM3 satelliite ragtop.The car was in MCG in 1994.1969 Daytona 440 parked in 1977 22'000 original survivor car. Presently owned
1970 Coronet 500 383 Presently owned
1970 Superbird 440 U 166242
1970 Superbird 440 U 174597
1970 Superbird 440-6 V 179697
1970 Coronet RT 440 U 224126
1968 Road Runner 426 J 134509
1970 Daytona Replica 318 G 178701

DAVE!!!!

Glad to see you over here!   Maybe you can post some pics of your Daytona that were on Moparts here a few months back, when you pulled it out of the garage for a bit.   Those, or any other pics of the cars you and Annie have a knack for finding.

Another WingNut hits DC.com....   WooHoo!!!          

[hotrod98]

I second the motion on those pics. Would love to see more Daytonas and Superbirds.

[Aero426]

Especially since a completed one just sold for 110k.   Was it the four gear that made that one so special?
 

I know four speeds have always been a hotter sale, but maybe there's more to it. It's also just what someone said they "heard" which could just be exaggerated. In my opinion, I don't believe all the stories of cars exchanging hands for these prices. (Maybe it's a partial conspiracy theory?) I say it's very possible that it's an artificial market to keep prices high for anyone who invests. Half million dollar Hemi cars aren't in the local classified & who actually sees that kind of cash exchanged? It's not like standing at a swap meet & seeing a customer fork over $50 to a vendor for a part.

I think 4-gear Daytonas are a rare-enough breed to generate the kind of interest you guys are observing.   Out of the 139 440-4speed cars built, the WW & DSAC could account for 60 or less of them (that's the last figures I saw).   There might be a few more of them out there, but the chances of another 80 popping up are remote.

I was offered just short of 6 figures last year for my 4-speed project car, and it will require about as much work as this primer / blue /   F6 green car.   Of course being offered something for a car is different than it actually selling for that amount.

Right.  We have 367 Daytona VINs on file in the Daytona Superbird Auto Club database.  173 of them are automatics, 64 are 4-speed.    So you can see why a 4-speed car is more desirable.  In our crazy market, I see no problem for a complete project Daytona passing 100k.   Good if you're selling.  Not so good if you want to buy.   

[Old Moparz]

Hello to Dave & Doug, glad to see more wing car people here.  

There was a discussion on Moparts where Tony D'Agostino made basically the same comment I did about artificial prices. (It's in the $5 million Cuda thread if it hasn't been locked or deleted yet.) People have created hysteria over the cars' worth & value, & it ends up driving the cost up. I understand that the prices are high & that anything is possible when it comes to record prices, but I've felt this way since the late 1980's. I saw magazines back then that helped generate the "mystique" of the rare Hemi cars & enjoyed reading them, & seeing the cars in the magazines & at shows.

It was great to tease my Chebby friends when the Hemi cars started to get higher prices than big block Vettes & Chevelles, but now it's just ridiculous & out of reach for just about everyone looking for an old Mopar. I like the fact that cars I've bought have gone up in value, but it's no fun worrying about the cost of replacement parts. I see what wing car parts go for & can't fathom the idea of driving one on the road with an original nose begging to be clipped. For me, it's at a point where I gave up the thought of ever owning certain cars. I'm not refinancing my house to get a Hemi car, a wing car, or anything else approaching 6 figures, it's just not happening.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not jealous of those who can afford these prices, I just feel that there is absolutely nothing made, that can justify this kind of money. That goes for the exotics as well like Lambos, Ferarris, etc.

Anyway, welcome to the site, Bob

[BigBlockSam]

hey wingcars6970  are you in nj. Rene

[mustanghater]

that wing looks homemade

[Daytona Guy]

Hi the naked daytona F6 4 speed daytona was down the road from me just a few miles.I missed buying the car for $25K .Many years ago.It was a guy who owned a body shop in philly pa.Frank Kopvocs old car .It was a solid car that was taken apart to change F6 green to petty blue.There are several more wingcars in my area none for sale though.I just help out with parts or services .I owned a few superbirds .And the one is on cars in barns as the OUCH car. I currently own a 440 daytona .I also have built some replicas ones as 1970 satelitte conv with all real superbird parts from a parts car used on a original FM3 satelliite ragtop.The car was in MCG in 1994.1969 Daytona 440 parked in 1977 22'000 original survivor car. Presently owned
1970 Coronet 500 383 Presently owned
1970 Superbird 440 U 166242
1970 Superbird 440 U 174597
1970 Superbird 440-6 V 179697
1970 Coronet RT 440 U 224126
1968 Road Runner 426 J 134509
1970 Daytona Replica 318 G 178701

I'm impressed. Would love to see the Daytona clones you made.

[hemigeno]

Right.   We have 367 Daytona VINs on file in the Daytona Superbird Auto Club database.   173 of them are automatics, 64 are 4-speed.      So you can see why a 4-speed car is more desirable.   In our crazy market, I see no problem for a complete project Daytona passing 100k.     Good if you're selling.   Not so good if you want to buy.     

Doug, glad to see you over here too!!!   

I had a conversation with Hagerty Insurance last week, who writes the comprehensive-only policy on my Daytona even though it is in pieces.   I had asked them to raise the coverage on my car up to $120k, even though it is in pieces here at the shop.   At first they didn't want to raise the limit over the $40k I had it insured at previously.   I told them that I would gladly purchase each and every 4-speed Daytona they could find in as good a shape as this F6 car or my R4 car for $40k.   2 days later they called back and agreed to the $120k limit.

Out of curiosity...

Does anyone know how many of the 367 Daytonas you have on record are still "in existence", either in a restored/finished state, or project cars?   As you already know, several cars were destroyed (2 of Big Willie's HemiDaytonas, for example).   Does that 367 count any of those cars that will never be (legally or ethically) resurrected?

Out of curiosity... Of the 367 VIN's you have on file @ DSAC, I suppose that not all of them have given you Fender Tag info, etc?   Is that why the auto & 4-speed totals don't add up to the total VIN count?

Welcome to the site!!!     

P.S.   Did you get the scan I sent you of 381533's build sheet?   If you're still coming to the Monster Mopar show, I can give that sheet to you there.   At last count, there were 50 WW/NBOA pre-registered cars, so this year there might be a bumper crop of Wing Cars at Gateway!

[BigBlockSam]

I'm impressed. Would love to see the Daytona clones you made   

    Please

[Charger_Fan]

Look at that, the overall coolness of this site just went up another couple notches...welcome aboard Dave & Doug!

By chance, do either of you know of a 440/727 car that may have come from Utah in around 1993 or so?
It would have been just like this one & had one mediocre repaint, complete with drips & runs.

[nascarxx29]

The naked daytona is XX29L9B390014 lived minutes from me .Cant believe it hasnt turned up restored or for sale