Glass Bead or Strip & Dip?

[Lowprofile]

OK, This is my Story....

After 10 + years, I am going to finally start my disasembly of my 70 R/T. The body, or whats left of it , needs tons of work. Whats the best method of removing all the rot/rust & filler? And, btw, I live up in the Northwest. Anyone know of a good bodyshop??

[hotrod98]

Soda blast, then media blast the rust areas.
Stay as far away from dipping as possible. Removes the factory seam sealer in areas where it's next to impossible to replace.
Don't know of any shops in your area, but check them out closely...ask lots of questions. Take your time and don't be afraid to ask for references. Contact the references and check to see if the shop did the job properly and in a reasonable amount of time. Avoid shops that ask for a lot of money up front. You may have a hard time getting your car finished if they already have your money.
Good luck.

[Silver R/T]

if you afford it i would dip it

[69hemi]

I had mine dipped and e-coated and it was the best money I spent on the car.  The dip gets all the rust in the frame rails, rockers and every nook & crannie that soda blasting will not touch.  When the car comes back from the dip it is stripped and you can see exactly what is left ot work with.  The only rub is you must e-coat it because you need to get all that raw metal in the frame rails etc covered up.  The car is totally sealed and will never rust again.  Check out the dipping process in the restortion section of www.69hemi.com

[hotrod98]

A few years ago, a friend of mine had his car dipped. He tried to replace the seam sealer as best as possible, but still had leaks around the cowl and the back glass. Rust would run down the firewall no matter how much he tried to seal in the air box area. If there was a way to dip the car in e-coat after dipping, I guess I would have more confidence in the dipping process.
I never realized that there was a dipping process that would eliminate rust. His car started rusting inside the frame rails where he had never had rust before.
He also said that the car had a tin can sound when he drove it that it didn't have before.
Fortunately, in this part of the country, we don't have the real bad rust issues, so soda blasting works real well and you can get an entire car done inside and out for $500.

[69hemi]

Dipping processes differ from dipper to dipper.  I have had cars dipped in the past and it was less than perfect.  They guys I use dip it once then give it back to you so you can get all your sheetmetal done then re-dip it when you are done to take car of any surface rust that has built up.  I strongly recommend the e-coat as it does seal all the hidden areas of the car as well as provide a good base for priming. 

As Far as the sealer goes, I spent an afternoon with the sealer and gun following the sealer diagrams from the service book.  With the rust problem on the firewall you describe it sounds like he either did not get an e-coat or missed priming some parts of the car.  If you leave bare metal it will rust.  You can tell if you have a good dipper if when you pick up the car it is dry and has nothing dripping from it.  All the cars I picked up from my guy have come home in the trailer bone dry.  This is the mark of a good process and a complete quality job from dipping through neutralizing the solvents. 

If the car is pretty clean from the start and the internal condition of the rails, rockers etc is not a concern, then the soda deal is cheaper.  When I looked into it costs around here in SE Wisconsin were running $600-$1000 for the shell and I have seen some of them and the results are less than spectacular.  My buddy dropped his Charger off and we picked it up two weeks late with an $800 cost overrun and it went from the blaste straight to the dippers to be finished.

[Silver R/T]

you can get seam sealer almost anywhere, they did it from factory and if factory put it way it was you can do it too. Im not saying anyone can do it, but I can since Ive done it in auto body class,  you can even spray inside frame rails with special tool that can spray undercoating/primers in there.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Dip it, I dipped mine. 

[Lowprofile]

THANKS!
You all have been an invalueble help. I think I am leaning towards the dipping, and here's why.......
The Body is just soooooooooooo rough. This car was neglected all of its life. Never Garaged, Midwest Winters all its life, dings, dents and rot everywhere in all the Charger places........... roof line under the vinyl roof, wheel wells, trunk, rocker pannels, etc...... She's just a mess!  But I refuse to surender....I will bring this R/T Back to life

              Thanks Guys

P.S. I will get pics so you can see what I'm talking about..

[Telvis]

My car was blasted inside and out. Soemone had put some type of heavy coating on the underside of the hood and no amount ob blasting would have removed it without warping the metal. I took the hood and had it dipped. It came out looking like a brand new hood. it was amazing. If I had it all to do over again I would have dipped all of mine. I did notice that the dipped metal developed light surface rust pretty fast. Much faster than the blasted metal. They just opened a soda blasting place here. I have heard that it's pretty good.

[BigBlockSam]

we use to dip cars for racing. to eliminate weight. i use a media blaster not as aggressive as dipping. Rene

[Drop Top]

I have not had good luck with dipping. Not to mention about what was previously said. In about 5 years or in some cases less. I have seen areas around the seams start to bubble up. This is due to the acid that gets traped inbetween these areas. After awile it will start to come out in areas like this and destroy your $15 to $20,000 restoration. If you don't drive your car it will take longer for this to happen.

I prefer Plastic Media Blasting. Put your car on a rotisorie to do the job right. If I were you I would check out your area to see what is avalibul. In some areas you don't have a choice. Here in Bakersfield we have two choices. Plastic and Soda. Make shure you check out the shop that you choose and ask questions from their former customers.

[BigBlockSam]

it's all about the guy who's doing the media blasting . I've been using extra fine sand . cheaper and works real good but you have to have a fine touch. especially on hoods and things like that. i got a great guy in NJ if anybody needs it Rene

[69hemi]

To Big Block Sam they don't use acid to etch the cars anymore.  The solvent is actually water soluble and does not etch the metal at all.  Even if you leave a plastic body plug in it just comes back very clean.

To Drop Top That it what it was like with the dipper I used to use.  We got a Mustang back from him and it sat in the shop and oozed for about a month.  We also had him dip a 62 Bubbletop and the seams started bubbling after a month.  The guy we use now is much better and uses different solvents that are not so caustic.  I have had 4 cars dipped from him with no problems and a bunch of parts.  Everything I get back from him is dry and cleaned off very well. 

Like anything, the method is usually not to blame, but the application and completion of the process determines the results.

[Old Moparz]

it's all about the guy who's doing the media blasting . I've been using extra fine sand . cheaper and works real good but you have to have a fine touch. especially on hoods and things like that. i got a great guy in NJ if anybody needs it Rene

I'd like the name since I'm not too far. The only place near me that I know of is one in Middletown, NY who visits the car shows & leaves his card on your vehicle. I have no way of knowing if he's any good & need to compare prices on a few parts.

As far as dipping, I had a quote a few months ago (April 2005) for the body shell at $1400 at Chem-Strip but haven't followed up to see exactly what was included for that price. Doors were $100 each, hood is $150 & other parts addtional. They're out of North Carolina. http://www.chem-strip.com/

[BigBlockSam]

hey Old Moparz
the place is called Quick strip, in carteret phone 1 732 855 1969. i forget his name. i'm going there tomorrow with a fender. charged me $70 for a charger fender and $65 for the vega hatchback for the daytona. i sent  my 68 charger hood to a  another guy. he said the metal was too thin to get all the rust off of. this guy left it looking like new. if i remember correctly he said he would do the whole car for about $650 i don't know if that would cover the bottom. Rene

[Daytona R/T SE]

I just picked up a load of parts from the dipper on Saturday. 70 Charger Hood, both fenders and a pair of hood hinges cost me $100  

[Old Moparz]

I just picked up a load of parts from the dipper on Saturday. 70 Charger Hood, both fenders and a pair of hood hinges cost me $100  

Any other info you can offer?

Like location & name of the place that dipped for you?

[sandman21]

does any one know of any good shops that dip in the Nevada/Arizona area?

[BigBlockSam]

i live in the northeast. everything seems to cost more here. Rene

[Kryp2nitE]

any place to dip in MI?

[69hemi]

any place to dip in MI?

The guy that did my stuff is here in Wisconsin just north of the Illinois line.  He sends all the cars to Michigan to e-coat though.  You could try him at 414-529-1515 ask for the owner, Mark.

[Charger_Fan]

any place to dip in MI?

The guy that did my stuff is here in Wisconsin just north of the Illinois line.   He sends all the cars to Michigan to e-coat though.   You could try him at 414-529-1515 ask for the owner, Mark.

I would have guessed you were talking about MCR... http://www.musclecarrestorations.com/ecoat.html
Did you use the Mark guy because he has the same service, but cheaper?

I don't know of any place around me that will do this.

[69hemi]

Actually he has his cars stripped at Mark's place which is called Restoration Specialties here in Milwaukee.   If you have Mark do the entire process it is much cheaper that Muscle Car Restorations.   The dip is about $1200.00 for the shell and $75-$100 for fenders, doors , hood etc.   The e-coating is $1800 for the shell and about the same cost as dipping for the panels.   This was a few years ago so I do not know his current rates but they have not gone up that much.   Aloha restorations also has Mark do all their stripping & e-coating.   What those guys do is mark it up for their time and efforts to get the cars there and back and any prep work they must do.   If you overlook the pricing section, Muscle Car Restoration's website has a good list of the pros of dipping & e-coating.  

I have posted it below for you all.

Why chemical stripping and E-Coating over traditional finish removal and preparation?
First of all, when the vehicle is reduced to its basic elements in the chemical stripping process, it is much easier to determine which body panels may need to be repaired or replaced than it would be if the finish was removed using conventional means. In turn, this will provide a much more accurate body work estimate. Secondly, an E-Coated vehicle will be far less prone to developing rust and rot because all surfaces, including places where a paint gun cannot spray primer and paint into, will be protected from the natural environment.


What value will these processes add to my vehicle?
The biggest benefit from having these processes done to your vehicle is the peace of mind knowing that the money invested in your paint work is laying on top of the most advanced and stable preperation process available in the industry. If you choose to sell your vehicle down the road, a potential buyer will be more enticed to purchase a car that has had these services performed because they will enjoy the same peace of mind that you did.


Can I have one service done without the other?
A vehicle can be chemically stripped without having the E-Coating process done; however, E-Coating cannot be done without chemically stripping the body. This is due to amount of foreign materials that stay on a vehicle when it is sand or media blasted. The remaining materials will resist the E-Coating application and contaminate the tanks in the E-Coating facility. It is highly recommended that if the vehicle is chemically stripped, the E-Coating process is performed as well due to the integral nature of the processes.

Is chemically stripping and E-Coating really worth the added expense?
The most important question you need to ask yourself before undertaking a restoration is: what will I be using the vehicle for when I’m done? If the vehicle is going to spend a lot of time at car shows with a critical eye looking over the bodywork and paint, it is a very good idea to have these services completed. Not only will the judges know that the vehicle has received special attention during the paint preperation process, a look over certain areas of the frame and other small recesses of the body will show where the E-Coating has provided protection where paint was not able to reach. On the other hand, if you plan on spending a lot of time behind the wheel of your finished car, then it may not be as important to have the services performed due to the amount of rock chips and other related blemishes your car will receive from regular driving. Either way, the money spent on these services will provide superior corrosion resistance and add years to the life of your vehicle’s finish. MCR offers these services because our reputation is based upon award-winning paint finishes. We have found that chemical stripping and E-Coating offer the best foundation for our painting process and that is why we recommend that your vehicle be treated to the most advanced processes available in the industry.

[sandman21]

Hey Drop Top, I know you are in B-field.  Who is reputable in the area for stripping a car (Soda or Plastic).  If you remember I am in Fresno and travel down your way often but anywhere within in a couple hours would be cool.  Thanks bro.
Tony

[Drop Top]

I sold my Plastic Media Business to a guy here in town. He is doing plastic and garnet blasting. He is also on the verge of getting the Powder Coating part of his business off the ground. I have had quite a bit of blasting done since he has opened and sent other people to him. I haven't had any complant about him yet. Very reasonable price wise also. Hes set up to do hole cars to small pieces. He also has a web site. Try GotBillet.com. I will get his card and get his phone number for you also. Its in the shop. Don't be surprised when you see a bunch of grills in sexy outfits. He sells that kind of stuff on the net along with billet grills and other things. Hes got allot of irons in the fire.

[Lowprofile]

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to say thanks for all your Advice and Ideas. Hopefully, this fall I will be home for a few weeks & I can FINALLY get started on this project. I'll keep you all updated with pics!

                                                Thanks Again,
                                                                  Chuck