Best Ignition choices for my 440? Opinions Please

[DANF]

I'm an older MOPAR guy who has been "on the shelf" for 20 years but, I'm back, I recently bought a new toy.  I finally found you guys - this forum is really cool.

Here's my story.

I have a fresh 440 that is now .030 over with all new guts with a .490 lift Comp Cam and an Eddy Dual Plane Perf RPM - no carb yet but was thinking about a Holley 780 DP.  I'm taking it to the Dyno soon but need to get my coil, distr, plugs, wires and ignition box. My Dyno guy has several carbs so hopefully we will zero in on one while there.

This is a Gen 3 street car.

I was thinking about all MSD stuff like the 6AL Box, 8.5mm red wires, Blaster 2 coil and the Pro Billet Electronic Distributor (8387 or 8545), NGK BCPR-6ES Plugs. Will the stock Fuel pump work fine or should I get a better one?.

Opinions and experiences with these parts/combo I'm considering is greatly appreciated.  Thanks

[dodge freak]

Well I loved my MSD 6a until after using it for around 8 years I wanted a rev. limiter, the MSD 7al was about $150 more than a new MSD 6al .Everybody, even MSD tech said it would not be any better than the 6al cause my compression is only 9-1 .Well I think everybody was wrong , it idles now in gear cold and seems to work better than my 6a that I had. If I had to do it all over again I would have never got the 6 box and just went for the 7 . If you do get a 6 box-they are all over e-bay it still would be better than the mopar units. Mopar last year or the year before had some MSD 6 & 7 boxes with the name Mopar on them and were black. Some of them are still for sale on e-bay new and used. I get all my stuff mostly from summit racing so I have no idea how they are. The fuel pump I am not sure on.

[Runner]

really depends on what your looking for.  if you want flash and a lighter wallet by all mean get all msd stuff. if your looking for a really nice aftermarket box that performs as good as the msd stuff with more option and a better price the mallory 685 box is very nice.    if you want to get a really good igntion system, dont want to break the bank and dont want to give up any performance for YOUR paticular combo, them the new mopar kit would be the way to go.  mallory is making the distributors they are fully adjustable caps and parts are avaliable at any parts store and the box does the job just fine. then top it off with a nice set of spriral core wires in what ever brand tickles your fancy and a msd blaster coil.

  ive done several differnt igntion boxes and probably 6 different brand of wires and what i found was not one ounce of performance fbetween any of it.   aftermaket boxes have a little cleaner idle over a stock box and thats about it.   times slips dont lie.      i personally run mallory 685 box on my roadrunner becasue i wanted/needed a rev limiter, and a mopar 2 piece billet distributor. the rest of our old mopars drive around on mopar boxs and distributors.

[mikepmcs]

my suggestion is msd 7al-2 conv(don't need digital), the 8.5 msd super comps(not sure on your distributor cap, but if it's the old school female socket type, you'll need a different coil wire)the reason is because i'm gonna suggest the 8251 coil(you don't need anything more unless you're racing) and that has the male spark plug type end. I just reread your post and it looks like you can just tell the summit guy/gal that you have male on both dist and coil(if you go with my suggestions) and they should get you the right wires.

here's my thread from about a month ago with these same questions, and I went with a holley hp 750, but i have a very mild 383.  I'm still learning the carb stuff, but thanks to all the gurus on here, i'm getting there quickly.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,15845.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,15650.msg176986.html#msg176986

v/r
Mike

[mikepmcs]

oh and i'm going with ngk xr5 plugs per firefighter ron's suggestions.  if i ever get em

[dodge freak]

Say mikepmcs- have you notice any difference from the Mopar unit that you had and the MSD 7 ? Not sure how much you drive the charger now that you have that great bike.

[firefighter3931]

I like the multispark boxes, especially with big cams that have lots of duration. The multispark feature keeps the plugs clean (no fouling) longer and the engine starts easier. 

The standard msd boxes work fine if you're not racing and don't need a rev limiter. The newer MP distributors are fully adjustable with the mallory re-curve kit and work just fine. 

If money isn't an issue, the MSD billet distributors are excellent but won't offer any performance advantage over a stock (or MP) unit that is functioning properly.


Ron

[dodge freak]

In the good old days -late 60's early 70's- some guys used to clean their spark plugs a few times a season, now with these high power boxes their is no need. There is other brands out there and I agree MSD is over priced, but they have been around for over 30 years now, so if it breaks later on MSD should be able to repair it.

Take a look at any new car now of days, it has 1 or 2 spark plugs going to 1 coil. We are trying to run 8 spark plugs off 1 coil. This gas is getting more ethanol in it too, so its better to have more spark then you think you need.

[69CoronetRT]

Do yourself a favor and talk with Don at FBO before making any decisions on ignitions.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/index.html

[dodge freak]

I went to the site and click on ignitions and it sounds good. They seem honest too saying the MSD is great but you might not need it. If you want a stock looking ignition , I would try it. They are so right about the cap and rotor, make sure it has brass in it. I use Accel but they recommend Moroso which is better yet. $362 gets everything even dist. thats a good buy.

[myk]

In regards to multiple spark boxes, the "new Mopar kit" is just a Chrysler-labeled MSD unit right?  Anyway, I'm running an MSD 6A and the Mopar-branded electronic ignition kit with the orange box.  I noticed an improved start-up, idle and response at low throttle with the MSD, especially when cold.  As for wires, those 8.5mm MSD superconductors are expensive and I really don't think they make a difference over the 8mm Taylor wires I picked up for half the price...

[dodge freak]

I agree on the wires, but MSD do have very low Resistance -50 ohms a foot- but the boots are very long and do burn if they touch a header, I found that out the hard way. Moroso makes better wires I think, but they don't come in black.

[mikepmcs]

taylor boot covers for the wire boots
DF,
I have noticed a difference in the ignition.  he fires right up all the time.  I'll let you know more after saturday when i tune the carb.  my buddy says there is a difference when he rode in it last week.  i still need the rear but i'm out of money for a while.  getting rid of the H2 and the Vette so I can get a trailer hauler and afford some more stuff for my real cars.
I don't drive the general too much lately cause of the weather mostly.  but i'll keep you guys updated soon. promise.  i'm trying to get the bike showroom on line for my eventual employer in 7 months,  not enough time in the day...it's all good though
v/r
Mike

[firefighter3931]

Do yourself a favor and talk with Don at FBO before making any decisions on ignitions.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/index.html

Several members both here and on other boards have had issues with burnt ballist resistors using the FBO system. The nice thing about a MSD/Mallory/Crane box is that it eliminates the ballist resistor out of the equasion....one less thing to go wrong.


Ron

[mikepmcs]

mine's gone..... sweeeeeet!

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Do yourself a favor and talk with Don at FBO before making any decisions on ignitions.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/index.html

Several members both here and on other boards have had issues with burnt ballist resistors using the FBO system. The nice thing about a MSD/Mallory/Crane box is that it eliminates the ballist resistor out of the equasion....one less thing to go wrong.


Ron

Don has since fixed this problem by supplying a HD MSD ballast resistor.

I'm running his ign with no problems

[firefighter3931]

Do yourself a favor and talk with Don at FBO before making any decisions on ignitions.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/index.html

Several members both here and on other boards have had issues with burnt ballist resistors using the FBO system. The nice thing about a MSD/Mallory/Crane box is that it eliminates the ballist resistor out of the equasion....one less thing to go wrong.


Ron

Don has since fixed this problem by supplying a HD MSD ballast resistor.

I'm running his ign with no problems

That's good to hear.  Some guys were having to swap in the MSD ballist....at least Don has adressed the problem and included the part in the kit. 



Ron

[AmadeusCharger500]

I bought 2 ignitions from Don, for 2 cars. They both were leaving me stranded at various places. It was not fun! I talked with him on the phone for a long time and all the help he gave was to try a different ballast. Which I did, specific part and all. Well they lasted about twice as long.
So after much frustration,  I got rid of both systems.
All I can say is thank god I don't have a ballast anymore!

[Chryco Psycho]

that is my experience with FBO as well they work for a while & strand you somewhere

[cuda66273]

The facts are:
We have over 2100 of our systems in service.

In nearly 4 years we have had 4 ECU and 3 coil failures, that's a .003% failure rate.

Standard Motor Products ECU defective rate on their product is, according to the local SMP warehouse is about 15% within 30 days. 

We did have some issues although many we're installer error with the Standard Motor Products Ballast Resistors, we resolved that issue by switching to the MSD 8214 at twice the price, the 5 piece kits are still $129.00.  In fact we replaced at NO Charge, not even frieght over 100 of those original ballast resistors.

We have NEVER denied a warranty claim and we have NEVER Charged a shipping or handling fee on any claim.

Psycho:
I don't recall you ever purchasing a kit?
If you purchased a kit through a dealer and had an issue, why did you not make a warranty claim?
Any of our 8 Dealers Nationwide, in Canada and in England are fully Authorized to replace any defective component covered under our 2 Year Warranty without question.

We continue to QC test every box of ECU's and Coils as they arrive. SMP is now making our Caps in TAN to meet our customers requests.  We still offer our unmatched 2 Year Warranty not only on our Ignition Products but also on our Resto Electronic Voltage Regulators, Starters, Alternators.

We continually strive to supply the absolute best components for Mopars, we test and abuse every part to be sure it meets our level of quality and we back them up with a solid nearly unconditional warranty.

Who else offers as good a product and backs it up as well as we do, if there is such a product "I'll Buy It".

[dodge freak]

MSD 7 boxes best you can get for a street motor. Oh and they have 8 and 10 boxes but I doubt any of us here need those but MSD have them and they been around for over 30 years now.

IMO the 6 boxes aren't so hot but if the smog police are in your town that may be the best you can do.

[cuda66273]

Yup we all need a Digital 7......$675.00
Have you noticed it states clearly in the MSD catalog "Race Application"

Let's throw in a $285 all mechanical race distributor to match while were at it.

Better get a spare cap and rotor $32.00

Don't forget a Blaster Coil $34.00

Wire set $70.00

So there's a $1000+ ignition system that still needs the distributor curved correctly and if you have a problem 50 miles from home be sure to take you AAA Card.

Or you can run a complete FBO system for about $350.00 and if it should have an issue, after all .003% of them may fail, any parts house can supply you with a temp part to get you home without the assistance of Bubba's Towing.

Your $1000 ignition system won't make your modest street strip car run any better or faster that a properly curved Mopar distributor with good electronic components.

[dodge freak]

NO all 7 boxes are not digital ! The 7 al is not and its around $380 from Summitt racing. Yes its a little high but if you are spending $200+ for a 6 box I think the 7 is much better. My motor idles with a Holley hp 750 cold in gear stock police conveter.

I don't know why people think all 7 boxes are digital ? Yeah those 7 digital are race only and will over heat on the street. With the right coil a 7 al box will run all day everyday on the street. Thats from MSD tech.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have purchased 3 kits through Dave & have customers that purchased them elsewhere probably direct so far all 3 I bought are either somewhat or completely replaced as are the ones my customers have purchased
coils seem to work fine as long as you can keep a ballast resister from burning up form thre extra load , 3 systems ran far better with stock replacemnet ECUs when swapped with yours
it is up to my customers to get back to you with warranty for the most part , I connot contact Dave anymore , the system I bought my customers just wrote off the loss

[cuda66273]

I checked with Dave, he only recalls you buying 1 and that was over 2 years ago, Dave is the ONLY distributor of FBO Products in Canada.

Dave also told me that of all the kits he's sold he's had no Warranty claims except for a few of the old style ballast resistors, any of which he replaced with the MSD 8214 at NO CHARGE even thouigh it clearly states that Ballast Resistors are NOT covered under the warranty.

If you have customers who claim to have had all these issues I'd like their contact info so we can figure out why they seem to be having these issues when 2000 others don't.

Just for the record....most ballast failures are caused by incorrect installation or voltage spikes from points style regulators, I've been running the original RU-11 in my pick-up for nearly 4 years and 40,000 miles with no problems.

I'm leaving for Division Finals in a couple of hours and will be gone for a week so I'll not be responding to this inappropriate flaming of what we know for a fact to be the BEST ECU style ignition system on the market.

This is nothing but Old Womens Gossip, If you want to flame me or Our products then give me names and specifics, we keep every sale on record.  If you just need to gossip here's a great site:

www.quiltingbee.com/gossip

[dodge freak]

Anything has to be better than those Mopar units

[wil440]

Chryco

Aren't you a member of Don's board ?? some interesting threads on there, funnily enough though there's not one post from you stating you or anyone else has had a problem with the ignition kit, except the old ballasts in 2 cases, which incidently were replaced FOC

you being a member of that board would also know Dave is a member too so one handy location to bring your complaints to light with both seller and supplier on one board.

I have sold over 60 kits here in Europe, I probably sold 10 kits with the old ballast and every single one was replaced at no cost to the customer, out of the 10 kits with the old style ballasts 2 failed, this was well over a year ago.

Since the MSD ballast has been used I have had NO problems.

Looking back at Don's board it appears that when you joined as a junior member you didn't actually know a whole lot....... reference cylinder heads Sir....... guess you don't like being told you know nothing.

This is the only reason I can see for your whining about the ignition kit as there's full warranty on the kit and if there was a problem and you'd have contacted Don it would have been sorted out in your favour

[mikepmcs]

I smell a lock coming.

[firefighter3931]

Chryco

Looking back at Don's board it appears that when you joined as a junior member you didn't actually know a whole lot....... reference cylinder heads Sir....... guess you don't like being told you know nothing.

Now that is funny !   Will, buddy...you're waaaaay off base here.  

Maybe you should spend a couple of weeks here reading the thousands of posts that Chryco has responded to....YOU might learn a thing or two  



Ron

[Paul G]

Chryco is the best, hands down. He has helped me out as well as the others more times than I can count. I would believe his advice without question just based on his past posts to this board and the old one. 

[Steve P.]

Chryco

Aren't you a member of Don's board ?? some interesting threads on there, funnily enough though there's not one post from you stating you or anyone else has had a problem with the ignition kit, except the old ballasts in 2 cases, which incidently were replaced FOC

you being a member of that board would also know Dave is a member too so one handy location to bring your complaints to light with both seller and supplier on one board.

I have sold over 60 kits here in Europe, I probably sold 10 kits with the old ballast and every single one was replaced at no cost to the customer, out of the 10 kits with the old style ballasts 2 failed, this was well over a year ago.

Since the MSD ballast has been used I have had NO problems.

Looking back at Don's board it appears that when you joined as a junior member you didn't actually know a whole lot....... reference cylinder heads Sir....... guess you don't like being told you know nothing.

This is the only reason I can see for your whining about the ignition kit as there's full warranty on the kit and if there was a problem and you'd have contacted Don it would have been sorted out in your favour

Are you shitting me?  Chryco has spent more time helping others (FOR NO MONEY), FOR YEARS. He has helped out hundreds of us on this board and others asking nothing in return. His experience with hundreds of products is just that. EXPERIENCE!!!!  WHAT GOOD HAVE YOU DONE FOR THE MORE THAN 2700 MEMBERS OF THIS PAGE?? Chryco is not selling any product here. You damn sure are trying. Problem is 99.999 percent of us are going to take the word of someone we TRUST that IS NOT a salesman or trying to sell us something to help fatten his wallet over a wind bag pushing something that IS BEING PUSHED..

This is not the first board I have been on that experienced techs have not had anything good to say about your product.. I have run MSD and Crane and others that I liked. Your attitude here is more than enough to MAKE SURE I never use yours..

Please don't bother tossing your hat into the ring here.  We are a family here and our blood runs thick.

Enough said.


Sorry Troy and others. I'll go take my pill now....

[dodge freak]

Yea - Good going, we need more members here with guts like yours . 

I don't see MSD or any others on here saying that for the money they have the best stuff, not saying thats its not I never use anything but MSD.

Oh skip that pill and keep up the good work.

[myk]

Wha?  Oh, don't mind me, I thought this was the "Chics on Chargers thread."   

[dave571]

I have purchased 3 kits through Dave & have customers that purchased them elsewhere probably direct so far all 3 I bought are either somewhat or completely replaced as are the ones my customers have purchased
coils seem to work fine as long as you can keep a ballast resister from burning up form thre extra load , 3 systems ran far better with stock replacemnet ECUs when swapped with yours
it is up to my customers to get back to you with warranty for the most part , I connot contact Dave anymore , the system I bought my customers just wrote off the loss

I'm not trying to jump into a pissing match here......


BUT  ....

I don't know why you can't contact me, since my site is still up www.davesmopar.com , and my email still working.

I still talk to almost all the customers I have sold them to, and the only issue we ever had was ballast resistors. AND that has not been an issue since we put the msd brand ballasts in the kit.

You must have the only 3 in Canada that have failed.

Your customers can contact me at the site and I will gladly find out what the problem is.

I have run the FBO stuff on 6 of my own vehicles, including an 11 sec car with no issues. 
I've replaced  1 ru11 ballast in 6 kits (my own stuff)

I've replaced 6 RU11 ballasts for customers (including the one in  the one kit I can remember selling to Chryco Psycho that I replaced with an MSD  ballast at NO charge to his customer)
That's out of about 50 kits I have sold over the last 2 years in Canada.

NO failures of coils OR ECU's

There's lots of ignition systems out there.  MSD has left me stranded more than any other, but I guess that's just my own experience with them.

Believe what you want

[Steve P.]

I have purchased 3 kits through Dave & have customers that purchased them elsewhere probably direct so far all 3 I bought are either somewhat or completely replaced as are the ones my customers have purchased
coils seem to work fine as long as you can keep a ballast resister from burning up form thre extra load , 3 systems ran far better with stock replacemnet ECUs when swapped with yours
it is up to my customers to get back to you with warranty for the most part , I connot contact Dave anymore , the system I bought my customers just wrote off the loss

I'm not trying to jump into a pissing match here......


BUT  ....

I don't know why you can't contact me, since my site is still up www.davesmopar.com , and my email still working.

I still talk to almost all the customers I have sold them to, and the only issue we ever had was ballast resistors. AND that has not been an issue since we put the msd brand ballasts in the kit.

You must have the only 3 in Canada that have failed.

Your customers can contact me at the site and I will gladly find out what the problem is.

I have run the FBO stuff on 6 of my own vehicles, including an 11 sec car with no issues. 
I've replaced  1 ru11 ballast in 6 kits (my own stuff)

I've replaced 6 RU11 ballasts for customers (including the one in  the one kit I can remember selling to Chryco Psycho that I replaced with an MSD  ballast at NO charge to his customer)
That's out of about 50 kits I have sold over the last 2 years in Canada.

NO failures of coils OR ECU's

There's lots of ignition systems out there.  MSD has left me stranded more than any other, but I guess that's just my own experience with them.

Believe what you want

Now that was MUCH more diplomatic...  Thank you..

[Chryco Psycho]

Msd has stranded me more often than anyother system too
most of the problems with the FBO system have been ballasts burning up , but not all
My customers have not been concerned with pursuing warranty , I guess they would rather make $$ than chase $200
I will contact them again & see if they want to pursue it now
I will get them to contact You Don seeing as it is your product
I have not contacted Dave nor will I as it is not his problem & with his shop gone & his phone never answered why would I ?
Just becuase someone has a problem doesn`t mean they will contact you either often it is less than 1 in 10 that will actually complain when there is a problem with a product or service

[Chryco Psycho]

Chryco

Aren't you a member of Don's board ?? some interesting threads on there, funnily enough though there's not one post from you stating you or anyone else has had a problem with the ignition kit, except the old ballasts in 2 cases, which incidently were replaced FOC

you being a member of that board would also know Dave is a member too so one handy location to bring your complaints to light with both seller and supplier on one board.

I have sold over 60 kits here in Europe, I probably sold 10 kits with the old ballast and every single one was replaced at no cost to the customer, out of the 10 kits with the old style ballasts 2 failed, this was well over a year ago.

Since the MSD ballast has been used I have had NO problems.

Looking back at Don's board it appears that when you joined as a junior member you didn't actually know a whole lot....... reference cylinder heads Sir....... guess you don't like being told you know nothing.

This is the only reason I can see for your whining about the ignition kit as there's full warranty on the kit and if there was a problem and you'd have contacted Don it would have been sorted out in your favour

Seems Don doesn`t know much either , there is at least 1 question dating back to Jan 5th 2005 he has not replyed to yet either , I have not logged onto FBO site for at least 18 months