Just got my Rusted/Trash to my house from sitting at the in-laws

[AirborneSilva]

I finally got my Charger home, now I'm kinda overwhelmed and don't know where to start on it.  As some of you know it is a hell of a mess and that I took a good screwing on it from HLPAG.  Some folks did offer up some parts to help me out, so if the offer is still good lets talk guys I can use all the material, moral, adviseral or any other help I can get - this is going to be a long road (no pun intended), with getting this car back on the road.

Chris, you will be happy to know that I finally got around to registering it on the 69 registry too - sorry it took me so long to do that.

[terrible one]

I think you should start with the back...cut out what you plan to replace, and start with the framerail replacement, then do the trunk and quarters and tail panel, etc. Just my two cents.

[AirborneSilva]

Thanks Terrible, yeah that's kinda what I was thinking too.  The wife was suppose to give me some money from her retirement but good ole uncle sam took a heck of a lot more then we thought so I'll have to wait until I can buy the frame rails and a few other parts.  After looking at it today I'm a little confused as to where to even start with that, I mean it seems as though the whole floor area, or damn near, from the fire wall to the trunk area (what's left of the trunk area), needs to be replaced, or should be replaced.

[4402tuff4u]

I would suggest wait until you get the replacement parts before you start cutting. It might save you from patching in some work. I would start removing parts that you can restore and re-install; i.e brackets, hardware, etc.... All the parts you remove tag them where they go and zip lock bag them if small enough. Take photo's and notes for future reference - photo's will save your hair on your head and your sanity!

[Silver R/T]

post some pics man

[terrible one]

post some pics man

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,3692.0.html

[AirborneSilva]

I pulled everything that was in the interior out and took some pictures of the MAJOR rust there as well and will post pics in a bit...

[RallyeMike]

Wow. I'm not sure If I should admire your tenacity or question your sanity !

I say start by cutting out all the rust and then ask yourself if you want to continue. At that point you won't have much invested and can still part it out.

The question that comes to my mind is that when a car that rusted is restored, and later sold, should the seller disclose just how much work had to be done to save it? It's not much different that saving a totalled wreck, and there are salvage title laws to protect and inform buyers for that situation. Kind of an interesting ethics issue. If I was thinking about buying this car years from now when it's done I'd sure want to know.

[AirborneSilva]

RalleyMike,  I think that perhaps you should question my sanity.  I believed and took at face value the description of the charger that I bought off of e-bay and ultimately off of HLPAG.  I do have more into this car then I care to say so I feel that I have no recourse but to save it, I can not afford to just write it off (cause I have no money to get another), and parting it out would not get me much at all I'm afraid.

Here are a few more pictures, of the inside, that are not on the link that terrible one posted for me;

[ChgrSteve67]

I would disassemble the entire car, get her media blasted and take inventory on what you are going to need in the sheet metal department.

Before you cut anything out I wiould weld in some support braces so the body dosent twist or colapse.

Once you really know what you have sit down and decide what its really worth before you start down the road of rebuilding this car.

I know you have already put a lot into her but honestly the amount of money you are going to spend in body work alone you could probably buy two or three cars in much better shape.

However what ever you decide Silva we are with you.

-SS

[Mikesmopars01]

I think everyone here is going to say the samething.  Get the car media blasted first.  See for sure what is good and what is bad.  It will save a lot in the long run.  Once you see what needs to go, you can then order the sheetmetal parts you will need.

Good Luck with this project.

[AirborneSilva]

I hear what you're saying Steve but I'm afraid that the only way I would be able to afford another Charger is to make payments on one and the wife and I are pretty strapped as it is, long story but we went from making over 100K per year to right now making about 36K per year and have house and 2 jeep payments to make, so......  I had gotten the money to buy this one from the sale of our house when we moved from hawaii to arizona, we made a descent profit on it so the wife and I gave ourselves a few thousand to spend any way we want as a reward for all of our hard work, well mine went for the charger, hers went to jewlerly (I think she was smarter!), so now what money I can put into the car is just a little here and a little there.  When I bought the car, from the description, I thought that just putting in a little here and a little there (with me doing all the work), I would have it on the road and in tip top shape inside of 3 years no problem, now I don't see it taking any less then 7 or 8.  

Anyway, thanks for the tip on welding in support pieces.  I had thought about blasting it but trying to do it myself to save as much money as I can, but then I'd also have to buy the equipment so I was debating which way to go - have it done or do it myself...  I do appreciate all the help and support I have gotten from this board, like a couple of my jeep forums, a great bunch of folks!

[AirborneSilva]

I think everyone here is going to say the samething.  Get the car media blasted first.  See for sure what is good and what is bad.  It will save a lot in the long run.  Once you see what needs to go, you can then order the sheetmetal parts you will need.

Good Luck with this project.

Thank you Mike, yeah I think I will look into what it would cost and if I can find someone around here to do it...

[Charger Aficionado]

  I'll get those Rockers cut. PM me your address.
  I forgot how bad those framerails are...

  I've seen NO TITLE Charger shells sell for a few hundred bucks before...  What state do you live in?

  BY-GOD, get that car done!  I would love to see it restored!

  I'll see if Steve at PPR will majorly discount a New Grille for your car too! 

  Guys, as a group I know we know people, and have spare parts...  Let's get together and help this guy put this car together.  Our "Spares" would cost him a FORTUNE to round-up on eBay.  If you Love Chargers (Like I know you do), let's not let this '69 R/T go to waste...  I've ssen so many (even in better condition), just rot away.  We all bitch when we see it...  This guy has the WANT to do this car, and sounds determined.

 

[RallyeMike]

Maybe your wife will have pity on you and decide to hawk some of that jewelry she bought with her 1/2 of the house money ?! 

Sounds like you are pretty well commmitted to doing the job. If you complete it, it will certainly be an accomplishment to be recognized. At least being in AZ you should have better access to local rust-free sheet metal. It looks to me that by the time you get into it, there is going to be some sheet that you need that can't be bought new. That means parts cars or fabrication. There is an old-school junkyard in ID that I will be driving past tomorrow that has two 69's at the bottom of stacks. I will try and get the name for you.

Having gotten away from 2nd gen cars, I can't help you out with anything but support myself, so  "Go get-em, tiger !".

[AirborneSilva]

  I'll get those Rockers cut. PM me your address.
  I forgot how bad those framerails are...

  I've seen NO TITLE Charger shells sell for a few hundred bucks before...  What state do you live in?

  BY-GOD, get that car done!  I would love to see it restored!

  I'll see if Steve at PPR will majorly discount a New Grille for your car too! 

  Guys, as a group I know we know people, and have spare parts...  Let's get together and help this guy put this car together.  Our "Spares" would cost him a FORTUNE to round-up on eBay.  If you Love Chargers (Like I know you do), let's not let this '69 R/T go to waste...  I've ssen so many (even in better condition), just rot away.  We all bitch when we see it...  This guy has the WANT to do this car, and sounds determined.

 

PM Sent.

I live in Southern Arizona and if I could get a hold of a parts Charger for a few hundred bucks that would be awesome on more fronts then one.  In removing the parts to put on my R/T I would be learning so it would help me to do a better job of actually putting the part on, and well the obvious would be that I would have the part and at an affordable price.  I had heard of a guy around here who had a 68 car that he wanted to sale for parts but he wanted $2500 for it which is way out of reach and I couldn't even use all the parts that I need off of it.

Thank you VERY much for all that you are doing and that you have done, it does mean a lot to me that there are people in the Charger community that are willing to help out fellow charger owners.  I am also in the jeeping community and I try to help out jeepers where I can, I have installed many lift kits for guys who don't have the knowledge or tools and the only thing I ask is for their spare parts so I can pass them on to other jeepers who may need them, I was even able to give a lift kit to a friend in hawaii that had a family and was not able to purchase one, it was only a small "budget boost" but it sure helped him out from dragging the bottom all the time....

[AirborneSilva]

Maybe your wife will have pity on you and decide to hawk some of that jewelry she bought with her 1/2 of the house money ?! 

Sounds like you are pretty well commmitted to doing the job. If you complete it, it will certainly be an accomplishment to be recognized. At least being in AZ you should have better access to local rust-free sheet metal. It looks to me that by the time you get into it, there is going to be some sheet that you need that can't be bought new. That means parts cars or fabrication. There is an old-school junkyard in ID that I will be driving past tomorrow that has two 69's at the bottom of stacks. I will try and get the name for you.

Having gotten away from 2nd gen cars, I can't help you out with anything but support myself, so  "Go get-em, tiger !".

I'd have to pry her jewelry from her cold dead hands 

Yeah I do believe that I am committed (and perhaps should be committed), to getting this Charger back on the road.  If I could find a parts car here real fairly soon I believe I could talk the wife into letting me get it (she has a bit of money coming in from her forced retirement), and that would be ideal. 

What part of ID do you live in?  I lived in Twin Falls for a few years, my parents owned a dairy up there in the early 80's.

Thanks for the positive moral support.

[SeattleCharger]

 

[RallyeMike]

Just passing through ID on my way to the races.... I live in the Seattle area, but I stop off at junk yards on the way when I have time.

[4402tuff4u]

Hey AirborneSilva, you mentioned that you live in AZ. This past April I was in your neck of the woods visiting my mother and was able to sneak for a few hours into Desert Valley Parts up north of Phoenix off route 101. You might want to check them out and see if you can buy one of those Chargers I photographed. Let me tell you, they were solid, solid as they come!! It would'nt hurt to call them or even better yet stop buy and see what they got. They are kind of pricey, but who knows you might luck out. If you do buy one, makesure you throw inside everything you can find laying around!!! Lots of small screws, bolts, trim, etc..............Good luck bud!

[AirborneSilva]

I've never been to or even through Seattle, the wife used to live close by there and has told me it is beautiful....

[Mikesmopars01]

That might be the route to go.  Get the frame rails from one of those cars, that way your have a good starting point.

[AirborneSilva]

Yeah I have thought of those guys, they are about 3 1/2 hours north of me.  4402tuff4u, when you say pricey, how pricey?  I think I can talk the wife into a few hundred, a little under $1,000 but anything over that and I'd have a fight, litterally 

[Mikesmopars01]

Duck and weave!!  Stay in there!!

Look Out!!!


Just kidding.

They might not want that much for some frame rails, maybe the whole car.  Doesn't hurt to call them.

[AirborneSilva]

Duck and weave!!  Stay in there!!

Look Out!!!


Just kidding.

They might not want that much for some frame rails, maybe the whole car.  Doesn't hurt to call them.

LOL she's a brown belt and I'm just a blue belt so I'll have to do some fancy foot work 

I will go look at their web page, I think I have it book marked, who knows maybe I will get lucky 

[4402tuff4u]

Yeah I have thought of those guys, they are about 3 1/2 hours north of me.  4402tuff4u, when you say pricey, how pricey?  I think I can talk the wife into a few hundred, a little under $1,000 but anything over that and I'd have a fight, litterally 

I purchased a complete set of trim for rear window on a 68 Charger, two door handles (black buttons), two very good shape ashtrays, high beam/low beam switch, two "C" chrome trim for tail panel, some misc. bolts and screws - all for $ 100.00 Built sheet I found on a rear seat for a RR was on the house!
I really did'nt have time to squeeze the guy down in price, but everything I got, was in excallent condition, just dirty. The dessert evironment sure keeps things in good shape. I tell you those Charger's were in good condition for what I could see. Go there and offer them what you think a car is worth.....tell them I'll give you $ 400 for the whole car and you'll load it yourself on a flat bed or trailer with a come along. If you do that, you could come out out of there with many bonus parts!!! Dashboard, lids, fenders, etc... On the other hand, what you dont need, you sell. Go there and make an offer! The only thing you got to loose is gas and time.

[AirborneSilva]

Yeah I have thought of those guys, they are about 3 1/2 hours north of me.  4402tuff4u, when you say pricey, how pricey?  I think I can talk the wife into a few hundred, a little under $1,000 but anything over that and I'd have a fight, litterally 

I purchased a complete set of trim for rear window on a 68 Charger, two door handles (black buttons), two very good shape ashtrays, high beam/low beam switch, two "C" chrome trim for tail panel, some misc. bolts and screws - all for $ 100.00 Built sheet I found on a rear seat for a RR was on the house!
I really did'nt have time to squeeze the guy down in price, but everything I got, was in excallent condition, just dirty. The dessert evironment sure keeps things in good shape. I tell you those Charger's were in good condition for what I could see. Go there and offer them what you think a car is worth.....tell them I'll give you $ 400 for the whole car and you'll load it yourself on a flat bed or trailer with a come along. If you do that, you could come out out of there with many bonus parts!!! Dashboard, lids, fenders, etc... On the other hand, what you dont need, you sell. Go there and make an offer! The only thing you got to loose is gas and time.

Thanks, if I could get a parts car outta them for $400 bucks I would be estatic!!  I think I will see if the commander in cheif wants to go for a road trip (or wouldn't mind letting me go for the day)....

[4402tuff4u]

Start low until you reach your limit. At that point if they don't move, tell them that you need a donor car and you've come from out of state because you heard they were good people to deal with.  Good luck I hope things work out for you, would like to see that Charger saved!

[Orange_Crush]

These are the best guys I've found yet for frame rails

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/68-70-CHARGER-GTX-B-BODY-P-S-FULL-REAR-FRAME-RAIL-OEM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34204QQihZ002QQitemZ4627743717QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

The best price and they're cleaned and blasted when you get 'em.

But lets be honest here.

The car is a total loss.  It CAN be restored, but, realistically, you're gonna spend 2X more than a similar charger in good shape.  The shop that's doing my Charger recently did a duster for someone, they did some minor rust repair and paint to a disassembled body and then delivered it to the owner as a bare shell for him to put together.  Total charge was 17,000 bucks...yep, thats a 17 with three zeros.  and this shop's hourly rate is half the price of most shops.

I would say that by the time your car is done, you'll be AT LEAST 40 thousand dollars into it.

Part the car for whatever you can get for it and find another one.  I hate it for you, but restoring this car will just be another very costly mistake.

[Mikesmopars01]

That is three(000) reasons right there to attempt the welding yourself.  Do as much as you can to get it done.  I welded in my floor pans and it was not that hard.  It will save you a lot of money in the long run.

[PocketThunder]

I would say that by the time your car is done, you'll be AT LEAST 40 thousand dollars into it.

i am nearing completion on almost the same amount of work with my 68 and i just broke the $20,000 barrier this week and its still not on the road.  And i did everything myself except for the $5000 maaco paint job. (paint and mud work only, i did all metal work).  Now in hind sight, could i have just bought a nice Charger for $20,000 two years ago? yes, would i have, no, because i didnt have $20k then nor do i now.

i guess if you have patience and a little money here and there, i'd say get the rear end welded up so that its stable and get it running and drive it as is....  Dont spend 3, 4, 5 years working on it to finally drive it some day, it will only make you hate the car and then you might sell it down the road with more money into it and you still wont be able to drive it.  Spend $1000 on a running drive train and get it going on the road.  

[sharpspike]

hey airborne.

when you go to  Desert Valley Parts keep in mind " re-body " when your looking at the charger bodies. i dont remember if you got the fender tag with the car, but that might be a better and cheaper way to go if you can get one with better rails, why cut them off and weld them back on. replacing the frame would be the trickest part of your repair, next would be quarters, floor pans pretty easy. so if you can get lucky try to find one you can strip parts off your hlpag to complete. something to think about.

ok guys, i know " re-body " can be a naughty word, but i think airborne should get a pass on this one if he can get lucky.

good luck bud, wish you lived closer so i could help.

[dodgecharger-fan]

Now in hind sight, could i have just bought a nice Charger for $20,000 two years ago? yes, would i have, no, because i didnt have $20k then nor do i now.

Same here. Besides, I'd probably want to tear it apart and check for rust anyway. Now, I know exactly what's in it.

i guess if you have patience and a little money here and there, i'd say get the rear end welded up so that its stable and get it running and drive it as is....  Dont spend 3, 4, 5 years working on it to finally drive it some day, it will only make you hate the car and then you might sell it down the road with more money into it and you still wont be able to drive it.  Spend $1000 on a running drive train and get it going on the road. 

Hmmm. I'm in my 4th year with this thing now... haven't really touched it in a year.

BACK OFF! It' snot for sale!

minor rust repair and paint to a disassembled body and then delivered it to the owner as a bare shell for him to put together.  Total charge was 17,000 bucks...

Youch! I got a lot more (I think) done for 6000 less (and in Canadian dollars).
Major rust repair.
both rear frame rails.
trunk pan and extensions
quarter skins
rear cross member
rear valence and end caps
front right fram rail
both front floor pans
some rocker work
some major dent repair


I got it back in primer, though. That suited my plans at the time. Now, I wish I had put the extra bucks into it to get into paint.



Airborne, I promised you some fender lower patch panels. I still have them and they're still your if and when you need them.

I know I will have some other spare parts, too. I just don't know what yet.

[Charger Aficionado]

How far are you from Vegas?  I sold the Mgr. of THE Large Ford Dealership's bodyshop there a bunch of Chargers/Hulls and he said he had a big collection...  I believe his name was Mike Lucas. 

[Charger Aficionado]

Youch! I got a lot more (I think) done for 6000 less (and in Canadian dollars).

Yeah but you Canadians are used to some rust no?

[Highbanked Hauler]

 If you noticed the two blue cars in the center of the picture have had the trunk floor and rails cut out.You need the same thing and I am quite sure a 4 door car has the same floor as a 2 door.If you get a one peice floor it is easier to get it aligned to the rest of the body than if  you do it in peices

[dodgecharger-fan]

Youch! I got a lot more (I think) done for 6000 less (and in Canadian dollars).

Yeah but you Canadians are used to some rust no?

True that. However, the car was from Hartford, Conne... oh, nevermind. Same issue, different coordinates. 

[AirborneSilva]

These are the best guys I've found yet for frame rails

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/68-70-CHARGER-GTX-B-BODY-P-S-FULL-REAR-FRAME-RAIL-OEM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34204QQihZ002QQitemZ4627743717QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

The best price and they're cleaned and blasted when you get 'em.

But lets be honest here.

The car is a total loss.  It CAN be restored, but, realistically, you're gonna spend 2X more than a similar charger in good shape.  The shop that's doing my Charger recently did a duster for someone, they did some minor rust repair and paint to a disassembled body and then delivered it to the owner as a bare shell for him to put together.  Total charge was 17,000 bucks...yep, thats a 17 with three zeros.  and this shop's hourly rate is half the price of most shops.

I would say that by the time your car is done, you'll be AT LEAST 40 thousand dollars into it.

Part the car for whatever you can get for it and find another one.  I hate it for you, but restoring this car will just be another very costly mistake.

I will be doing all the welding myself.  I do hear what you are saying but the cost of the parts will be my only outlay since I plan to do all the work myself.  I know I will still have a good deal of money into it which is why I would dearly love to find a donor car, that would save me a bundle.

[bull]

So you either spend $40k fixing the one you have or $35k on one that's finished. At least you'll know what's been done to the $40k car.

[AirborneSilva]

So you either spend $40k fixing the one you have or $35k on one that's finished. At least you'll know what's been done to the $40k car.

That has entered into my thinking, also the fact that by the time I'm finished with it the way prices are going on our chargers it will be worth well over the $40k mark...

[AirborneSilva]

Well I about have the commander in cheif (wife), talked into letting me have the money for a donor car, keep happy thoughts for me guys 

[dkn1997]

Hey man, I know you probably dont want to hear this, but get out while you can.  It sounds like you are like most of us, meaning you lack the skill to completely repair this car yourself.  from what you said, you also lack the money to pay someone to do it.  I would part this car out, take the cash, plus the cash your wife said you could use for a donor, and start out with something better.  look for a car, when you find one, get someone from the site here to help you look at it.

in my opinion, that car is too far gone for the average guy to save without bending over and emptying his wallet completely.  leave that one for the experts.   

you could probably have a decent driver for 15k whether you bought one outright for that much, or started with a much more solid donor and slowly put some cash into it.

I know you have a lot of money into this already, but what's the sense of throwing good money after bad?  you can still recoup some of your money from this car, probably not what you paid, but it would not be a total loss.  again, I agree that the car is probably saveable, but for guys like us, who are not welders/fabricators and who don't have unlimited funds, it's just too rough.

[AirborneSilva]

Hey man, I know you probably dont want to hear this, but get out while you can.  It sounds like you are like most of us, meaning you lack the skill to completely repair this car yourself.  from what you said, you also lack the money to pay someone to do it.  I would part this car out, take the cash, plus the cash your wife said you could use for a donor, and start out with something better.  look for a car, when you find one, get someone from the site here to help you look at it.

in my opinion, that car is too far gone for the average guy to save without bending over and emptying his wallet completely.  leave that one for the experts.   

you could probably have a decent driver for 15k whether you bought one outright for that much, or started with a much more solid donor and slowly put some cash into it.

I know you have a lot of money into this already, but what's the sense of throwing good money after bad?  you can still recoup some of your money from this car, probably not what you paid, but it would not be a total loss.  again, I agree that the car is probably saveable, but for guys like us, who are not welders/fabricators and who don't have unlimited funds, it's just too rough.

I hear what you are saying, BUT, I do know how to weld and I do know someting about fabrication since I do a bit of that for my jeep (and have done some fabrication for others jeeps too).  I will be doing all the work myself and know a guy who is in the 4 wheel club I belong to who onws a body shop and has told me that he will help to answer any questions I may have and will come over to give me direction at whatever stage I may be in at the time (but I will also be asking questions from guys like Doc too since they have done quite a few chargers).  As I see it, and I could really F*ck the whole thing up but doubt it, I will be putting out money for parts then there is my labor which it will be a labor of love so I personally don't count that (and yes I know my time is valuable and has a price but it goes back to the labor of love thing).  I know you and others don't want to see me get in over my head and I appreciate that, but if I do the work myself (and I will), I just don't see it happening. 

[73 Charger 440]

I havent posted here much since the old site, some guys (Troy, Nacho) should remember me from back then.

If I can give you some advice. Dont tackle the whole car at once... Seperate it into projects (for example: rear metal, floor pans, drivetrain, interior, exterior) as obvious as it may seem - dont move onto the next project until the current is done.

I would start with the metal work and go from there...

Some of the guys brought up how much it is going to cost etc... Set a budget and try to be realistic, do you want a show wining car or do you want something that looks pretty good and is fun to drive?

[dkn1997]

hey silva.  I totally respect what you are setting out to do, though.  I started with a pretty good solid car, did all the work except the bodywork myself, and it was still a  chore staying fired up and motivated to finish.  Me and the other guys who are saying to get out now just don't want to see you get in over your head.

with that said, I totally wish you the best of luck and wish for the hlpag scumbags to burn in hell for what they did to you.  I suppose the best way for you to get back at them would be to make that car beautiful once more!!

[AirborneSilva]

Thanks guys, 73 Charger 440 great advice - thank you.  I will try to keep focused and not get a head of myself or the current project.

dkn1997, yeah I know there will be times when I don't even want to look at it but I am pretty self motivated so hopefully I can keep myself on track.  I know I will not lose interest, I have wanted another charger since I sold mine when I was in the Army, a very long time ago!

My plan for the car - I know it will never give Chris a run for his money, well I don't think with me doing the work it would, I do however want to make it a head turner and with a 440 in it make it fun as hell to drive.  I do want to build it as factory correct as I can but may add some things that it didn't get from the factory - like A/C.

[bullit68]

hi silva.my advise to you,if you are going to go ahead with it,is to get a parts car.factory parts are a lot easier to fit than crappy reproduction parts.btw you dont have to have a charger for a parts car.any 68-69 2 dr OR 4dr have the same floor pans.be it a satelite,belvedere,coronet etc.thay all have the same frame and floor sections.it should be a lot easier and cheaper to find one of those for parts,especially in az.just drill out all of the factory spot welds along the perimeter of the floor(leaving the frame attached),then reweld it to the charger upper body shell.i think that would be the easiest and most economical way to go,just very labor intensive.use a spot weld drill bit to do this.it can and has been done before.good luck.

[SeattleCharger]

Anyone looked at chargers on ebay lately?  I was surprised at the number of '68's in the 4-7K price range, what is going on?  They weren't perfect of course, but they weren't that bad to start with, I don't know if maybe the bidding had just started maybe, I am not that familiar with ebay, perhaps they sold for a lot more than when I saw them.     Maybe might be worth it to spend the money on a better car to start with, might save money overall in the long run.  I don't know.  Good luck whatever you do.