Stainless Steel Brake Kit with Power Booster

[mopar1968]

I have a 1968 Charger with Factory power drum brakes.  I bought the SSBC kit that is for a NON power brake car (Summit said it would work).  The kit came with Master Cylinder and Booster.  However, the booster will not bolt to the car so I had my factory booster rebuilt.  This kit is a 4 wheel disc, with the 4 piston calipers up front and the single calipers out back.

Here in lies the problem.  A later year MC (4bolt) will bolt perfectly to my booster but doesn't provide enough volume to stop the car properly.  The bore size is not big enough.  The kit came with a 2 bolt MC that will move enough volume but doesn't work right with my booster even with an adapter plate.

Does anyone know of a MC that is a 4bolt, that will work with my SSBC kit???  Please help!!

[Rolling_Thunder]

why didnt the booster fit ?   I just installed a SSBC kit into a 68 Charger at work and had exactly no problems with it....   

[mopar1968]

why didnt the booster fit ?   I just installed a SSBC kit into a 68 Charger at work and had exactly no problems with it....   

The booster included in the kit is for a NON power brake car.  Mine is a Power brake car.  The bolt holes are not the same on a Non power and power car.  I called SSBC and they confirmed that the booster included with the kit will NOT work with my factory power car.  That is why I had my original rebuilt, and just need a MC capable of powering these 4 piston calipers.

Was yours a factory power car or NON power (manual) car??

[Lightning]

give Master Power Brakes a call, they have a 4-bolt master cylinder setup that fits both power and manual brakes.

www.mpbrakes.com

[mopar1968]

give Master Power Brakes a call, they have a 4-bolt master cylinder setup that fits both power and manual brakes.

www.mpbrakes.com

Thanks.  I called them last week already.  They have NO idea what is available outside of their own world.  They claim since they make their own MC, they don't know what else will fit, but would be happy to sell me their setup for $300-$400. 

So far, this kit from SSBC has been the worst thing I've purchased for this Charger.  I should have just went with the factory disc setup from a 70's mopar.  A warning to all that are looking at this kit.  It includes most everything, but leaves too much for you to figure out on your own and provides a low level of tech support.  Of course, just about every project on this car has gone south and taken way too long with too many headaches. 

I'll just keep calling around trying to find someone who knows these things better than I.  Oh, FYI, I have been a mechanic for 18+years now.  Specializing in Brakes and Alignments.  That's the kicker.  I can install, rebuild or whatever needs to be done, but not design a full system.  That is what these companies are for.  As I understand it now, it is a Mustang rotor, a T-bird caliper, a this, a that.  I thought I owned a Dodge?   

[mopar1968]

UPDATE.....

I called SSBC again for the 3rd time and apparently got someone that knows more than the others did.  They claim to have the correct MC that will work for their setup, on a factory power brake car.  Once I receive it and test it, I'll let you all know what the outcome is.

Thanks for your responses!!

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Here in lies the problem.  A later year MC (4bolt) will bolt perfectly to my booster but doesn't provide enough volume to stop the car properly.  The bore size is not big enough.  The kit came with a 2 bolt MC that will move enough volume but doesn't work right with my booster even with an adapter plate.

You have other problems causing your poor braking. The bore size of a M/C will affect how far the pedal will travel and how much pedal pressure you need to exert, but any available bore size will provide enough volume and pressure if the rest of the system is set-up, adjusted, and bled properly. -- Can you explain the problems you are having?

For the record, Though I personally prefer the stock brake pieces for upgrades, I have allways found the SSBC kits to be the best "package" available, and would be my first choice for a kit.

[mopar1968]

Here in lies the problem.  A later year MC (4bolt) will bolt perfectly to my booster but doesn't provide enough volume to stop the car properly.  The bore size is not big enough.  The kit came with a 2 bolt MC that will move enough volume but doesn't work right with my booster even with an adapter plate.

You have other problems causing your poor braking. The bore size of a M/C will affect how far the pedal will travel and how much pedal pressure you need to exert, but any available bore size will provide enough volume and pressure if the rest of the system is set-up, adjusted, and bled properly. -- Can you explain the problems you are having?

For the record, Though I personally prefer the stock brake pieces for upgrades, I have allways found the SSBC kits to be the best "package" available, and would be my first choice for a kit.

Yes, the system is installed\bled properly.  After repeated calling SSBC, I finally reached a "Tech" that has explained the reason for the poor performance.  You MUST use their Master Cylinders regardless of the bolt pattern.  In my case it is a 4 bolt, but in the case of a manual car they ship you a booster and MC that is a 2 bolt.  They agreed to take my 2 bolt MC in trade for the proper 4 bolt yesterday.  Now it's all about shipping. 

My first few phone calls I guess I reached a Sales Person, and he had told me any 74-76 Disc MC 4bolt will work.  This is NOT the case.  It must be a MC provided by SSBC because of bore size and other details.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

I hope the new M/C they supply will cure your problems, but I caution that there is no "magic" M/C -theirs, or anyone else's. Since you have not provided any details on the problem you're having, it's hard to offer suggestions, but I would hate to see you wait for the new unit, go through all the hassles of installing it, bleeding, etc., and still have the same problem (whatever that may be).

[mopar1968]

I hope the new M/C they supply will cure your problems, but I caution that there is no "magic" M/C -theirs, or anyone else's. Since you have not provided any details on the problem you're having, it's hard to offer suggestions, but I would hate to see you wait for the new unit, go through all the hassles of installing it, bleeding, etc., and still have the same problem (whatever that may be).

The problem it was having with the 73-75  Disc Brake MC was:

1. Little Front Braking

The rear was working, kind of OK, and the added rear proportioning valve was turned way down to help feel out the fronts.  I had really good pedal, a booster just rebuild by Booster Duey, and brand new fluid bled properly with good pressure at the calipers when bled.  The system was bled 5 times to insure no air.  Go around the block, and I would get low to moderate braking, mostly the rears doing all the work.  Never could get the brakes to lock or work better.  Would not trust to go any further.

Called SSBC yesterday and the tech said that the master cylinder is not capable of running my NEW SSBC 4wheel disc brake system, and that I must use their MC.  If you have any other suggestions I'm open to them.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

I agree that getting the M/C they provide should be your first step since they state that it is the only one that will work, but I know guys that have put 6 piston Brembo brakes on their car with the stock M/C with zero issues, and I personally have installed the SSBC disks for other with no issues - even switched out their provided M/C once for an old A-body 7/8th inch bore unit to reduce pedal pressure to make the guys wife happy.

I'm not sure if you are running power brakes or not, but if you are, I would suspect a lack of vacuum. If they are manual, it sounds like a "too large" bore diameter on the M/C. Whatever the results, please post back with your results when you get the M/C they send you.

[mopar1968]

I agree that getting the M/C they provide should be your first step since they state that it is the only one that will work, but I know guys that have put 6 piston Brembo brakes on their car with the stock M/C with zero issues, and I personally have installed the SSBC disks for other with no issues - even switched out their provided M/C once for an old A-body 7/8th inch bore unit to reduce pedal pressure to make the guys wife happy.

I'm not sure if you are running power brakes or not, but if you are, I would suspect a lack of vacuum. If they are manual, it sounds like a "too large" bore diameter on the M/C. Whatever the results, please post back with your results when you get the M/C they send you.

It is Power Brakes with a rebuilt Original Booster.  Booster Duey did the work.  The Booster worked before the swap when I had drums, but I figured it's time to get it done.  It's definitely not a lack of vacuum as the pedal feels just like my New Dodge Ram.  You can hear it work and the pedal moves about 2 or so inches with good feel and not hard like a bad booster.

Like I stated before above, I am a brake and alignment tech.  But have never had a "kit" to put in.  I've only done rebuilds on factory systems and never had one yet that acted like this.  Is there something special I'm supposed to do regarding any factory items like valves or lines?  The fluid is good at each corner so I know everything is working.  Your help is appreciated.

[blue69]

The booster should fit. Power brake and manual brake cars use the same brake pedal and have the same firewall holes. One thing you have to do is unbolt the brake light switch and raise it to the higher set of holes. You also have to unbolt the booster pivot. This will give your pedal twice as much travel. I'm guessing the pushrod from the booster is located lower than the factory booster when mounted which would require the pedal the be in the manual brake position.  SSBC does make a 4 wheel disc master cylinder that has 4 bolts but it is very expensive. http://www.ssbrakes.com/products/detail/5302/?make=Dodge&model=Charger&year=1969 . If you have a factory 4 wheel drum booster, I don't think it will work. Mine was barely adequate when it had 2 wheel disc.

[mopar1968]

The booster should fit. Power brake and manual brake cars use the same brake pedal and have the same firewall holes. One thing you have to do is unbolt the brake light switch and raise it to the higher set of holes. You also have to unbolt the booster pivot. This will give your pedal twice as much travel. I'm guessing the pushrod from the booster is located lower than the factory booster when mounted which would require the pedal the be in the manual brake position.  SSBC does make a 4 wheel disc master cylinder that has 4 bolts but it is very expensive. http://www.ssbrakes.com/products/detail/5302/?make=Dodge&model=Charger&year=1969 . If you have a factory 4 wheel drum booster, I don't think it will work. Mine was barely adequate when it had 2 wheel disc.

No, the booster from the kit does NOT line up to my firewall.  Manual brake cars are different bolt pattern compared to power brake cars.  My buddy has a 70 manual brake charger and we confirmed this, and SSBC also said the same thing.  SSBC said my factory booster is fine and all I need is their MC.  That is why I had mine rebuilt.  I'd be curious to see if anyone has made the booster from the kit fit a power brake charger. 

As for the price difference, SSBC said to ship them the MC that came with the kit (2bolt), and they will ship back at no extra charge the proper 4 bolt.  It will only cost me shipping.  Again, was your car a factory Power Brake car or not?

[mopar1968]

OKAY,,, I'm in the garage right now with the factory booster pulled back out...

The booster included in the kit does not even come close to fitting the stock holes!  With or without the brackets they include...

I can redrill the brackets they included, or the car to fit the new booster, but...Seams hokey...

Hasn't anyone put one of these kits on that had factory power brakes??  I'm getting too many "what to do's" from SSBC and here.  Do I use my stock booster (freshly rebuilt) or the one from the kit??

HELP!

[mopar1968]

UPDATE......

I decided to not wait anylonger to try some things.  So, I installed the booster and Master Cylinder from the kit.  I had to drill the firewall and brackets to fit, but it wasn't that difficult.  So, now there is no question as to a mixture of old and new parts.  ALL PARTS are now from the kit.

Still having the same trouble.  Low braking.  It will stop, but my drum brakes were better.  Nothing compared to what it should be.  System has been bled several times, and there is NO air at all...

Any thoughts from the brake gu-rus?     FYI, this is a 4wheel disc brake kit, with MC and Booster from SSBC.     Thanks in advance.

[Animal]

I have the complete SSBC set up with 9" booster,along with rears.I went with the most expensive omes,whatever the part No may be.I have found that the fronts will not lock up no matter how hard I hit that peddle.Even with proportionate valve set both ways.Booster works fine.Is there something amiss with this set up.as the brakes are not good & don't stop in an emergency.
Adam.

[blue69]

How many inches of vacuum is your engine producing? The amount of assist a vacuum booster produces is proportional to the amount of vacuum it receives. I think 18" of vacuum is recommended. If you don't mind the non-original look, I recommend a hydro-boost booster. There are a few places that sell kits to install one. I installed one on my charger with 4 wheel disc and I have no problem getting the wheels to lock up. You can also try a manual brake setup.

[firefighter3931]

The brake pushrod is in a different location on the brake pedal when comparing disc vs drum brakes from what i've read. This could be a possible issue with your current installation and lack of pedal pressure. The disc brake rod is supposed to be higher up on the brake pedal to produce increased leverage. You might need an adjustable pushrod to make this work properly. Mancini carries the adjustable brake pushrods. Something to consider at least if all else fails...


Ron

[mopar1968]

I have the complete SSBC set up with 9" booster,along with rears.I went with the most expensive omes,whatever the part No may be.I have found that the fronts will not lock up no matter how hard I hit that peddle.Even with proportionate valve set both ways.Booster works fine.Is there something amiss with this set up.as the brakes are not good & don't stop in an emergency.
Adam.

I had given up on this post since nothing was working and no new info was being written.  I have what sounds like the same kit as you, and the exact same problem.  Vacuum is good at 16+, Booster is new, Master Cylinder is new, 4-wheel disc brake kit is new.  SSBC says that this is a bolt in kit.  No modification necessary to the brake pedal, booster or anything.  Just bolt in and go....

Ya right!  Next time I will purchase the Master Power Brake Kit.....I knew something was up when I started bolting FORD parts on my Mopar.....

[8WHEELER]

This is the MPB unit I bought, they say you will need to drill another hole in your brake pedal
arm of your car, if your car was manual brakes. But the system will work with power drum or disc brakes.

I found a stock Hemi booster, witch has the correct stud battern to go through the fire wall
as the stock unit. Then I used the same stile master as the MPB unit, works fantastic.
Instaling the MPB unit is at least a two man job, with the adapter plates, then you have to
use nuts and bolts to hold it to the firewall. Its a good unit, but kind of a pain to install.

Dan

[Animal]

The brake pushrod is in a different location on the brake pedal when comparing disc vs drum brakes from what i've read. This could be a possible issue with your current installation and lack of pedal pressure. The disc brake rod is supposed to be higher up on the brake pedal to produce increased leverage. You might need an adjustable pushrod to make this work properly. Mancini carries the adjustable brake pushrods. Something to consider at least if all else fails...


Ron

Ron,I have an adjustable push rod that came with the kit.I am open to any suggestions.When I read the instructions,it says to use the rear resevoir for fronts if it is a ford & front resevoir if it is a GMC.As it does not state what resevoir to use for a mopar,I used the biggest,which is the front.regarding the adjustable rod,do I have to set it up,as the brake peddle does not hit the floor & you can't push it any more than about half way.So thinking it is adjusted OK.Please HELP.Thanks Adam.

[firefighter3931]

The brake pushrod is in a different location on the brake pedal when comparing disc vs drum brakes from what i've read. This could be a possible issue with your current installation and lack of pedal pressure. The disc brake rod is supposed to be higher up on the brake pedal to produce increased leverage. You might need an adjustable pushrod to make this work properly. Mancini carries the adjustable brake pushrods. Something to consider at least if all else fails...


Ron

Ron,I have an adjustable push rod that came with the kit.I am open to any suggestions.When I read the instructions,it says to use the rear resevoir for fronts if it is a ford & front resevoir if it is a GMC.As it does not state what resevoir to use for a mopar,I used the biggest,which is the front.regarding the adjustable rod,do I have to set it up,as the brake peddle does not hit the floor & you can't push it any more than about half way.So thinking it is adjusted OK.Please HELP.Thanks Adam.

 

Adam, are you saying that the biggest reservoir on your master is at the front ? That's the way i'm reading your description. All mopars that i've seen with power disc brakes have had the large reservoir on the back and that is where the front brake lines were routed. It sounds like the master cylinder is incorrect for a Mopar brake system if that is the case. As Dan (8 wheeler) confirmed above ; the brake pushrod needs to be moved up on the brake pedal arm. This confims what i had heard before about factory drum brake vs disc brake pedal assemblies being different in terms of the brake pushrod location. Looking at the pic he posted above, the large reservoir appears to be at the rear of the master cylinder.

Try contacting SS Brakes with these concerns and seek some clarification. I'll be doing a power drum to manual disc conversion soon on mine useing the a-156-2 kit with the 4 piston aluminum calipers and slotted rotors. The feedback i recieved on that setup was positive from those who had made the conversion. I'm not anticipating any problems based on what i've heard....


Ron


Ps. Ok, i just went and dug out my master cylinder that came with the kit. It has the large reservoir at the back, closest to the firewall. That is where i would hook up the front brake lines when installing it. If your master has the big reservoir on the front....i'm pretty sure that it's incorrect for the application.

[Animal]

Ron,what difference does it make what resevoir you use,just out of curiosity.Thanks Adam.

[firefighter3931]

Ron,what difference does it make what resevoir you use,just out of curiosity.Thanks Adam.

If you think of it in terms of brake bias....the majority of your braking will come from the front brakes....roughly 80-85%. A caliper requires more fluid volume compared to the smaller piston on a wheel cylinder....therefore the larger reservoir. If you look at a drum brake master cylinder, you'll notice that both reservoirs are the same size.

Having the front brake reservoir on the rear of the master will exert more pressure because the master cylinder is engageing the front brakes first....earlier in the brake pedal stroke. The rear brakes which "proprtionally" need less pedal pressure to engage and being of relative lesser importance are secondary. That's probably an oversimplified way of looking at things...and i'm sure there's a much better technical explanation. 


Ron