Stainless Steel Brake Kit with Power Booster

[mopar1968]

I have a 1968 Charger with Factory power drum brakes.  I bought the SSBC kit that is for a NON power brake car (Summit said it would work).  The kit came with Master Cylinder and Booster.  However, the booster will not bolt to the car so I had my factory booster rebuilt.  This kit is a 4 wheel disc, with the 4 piston calipers up front and the single calipers out back.

Here in lies the problem.  A later year MC (4bolt) will bolt perfectly to my booster but doesn't provide enough volume to stop the car properly.  The bore size is not big enough.  The kit came with a 2 bolt MC that will move enough volume but doesn't work right with my booster even with an adapter plate.

Does anyone know of a MC that is a 4bolt, that will work with my SSBC kit???  Please help!!

[Rolling_Thunder]

why didnt the booster fit ?   I just installed a SSBC kit into a 68 Charger at work and had exactly no problems with it....   

[mopar1968]

why didnt the booster fit ?   I just installed a SSBC kit into a 68 Charger at work and had exactly no problems with it....   

The booster included in the kit is for a NON power brake car.  Mine is a Power brake car.  The bolt holes are not the same on a Non power and power car.  I called SSBC and they confirmed that the booster included with the kit will NOT work with my factory power car.  That is why I had my original rebuilt, and just need a MC capable of powering these 4 piston calipers.

Was yours a factory power car or NON power (manual) car??

[Lightning]

give Master Power Brakes a call, they have a 4-bolt master cylinder setup that fits both power and manual brakes.

www.mpbrakes.com

[mopar1968]

give Master Power Brakes a call, they have a 4-bolt master cylinder setup that fits both power and manual brakes.

www.mpbrakes.com

Thanks.  I called them last week already.  They have NO idea what is available outside of their own world.  They claim since they make their own MC, they don't know what else will fit, but would be happy to sell me their setup for $300-$400. 

So far, this kit from SSBC has been the worst thing I've purchased for this Charger.  I should have just went with the factory disc setup from a 70's mopar.  A warning to all that are looking at this kit.  It includes most everything, but leaves too much for you to figure out on your own and provides a low level of tech support.  Of course, just about every project on this car has gone south and taken way too long with too many headaches. 

I'll just keep calling around trying to find someone who knows these things better than I.  Oh, FYI, I have been a mechanic for 18+years now.  Specializing in Brakes and Alignments.  That's the kicker.  I can install, rebuild or whatever needs to be done, but not design a full system.  That is what these companies are for.  As I understand it now, it is a Mustang rotor, a T-bird caliper, a this, a that.  I thought I owned a Dodge?   

[mopar1968]

UPDATE.....

I called SSBC again for the 3rd time and apparently got someone that knows more than the others did.  They claim to have the correct MC that will work for their setup, on a factory power brake car.  Once I receive it and test it, I'll let you all know what the outcome is.

Thanks for your responses!!

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Here in lies the problem.  A later year MC (4bolt) will bolt perfectly to my booster but doesn't provide enough volume to stop the car properly.  The bore size is not big enough.  The kit came with a 2 bolt MC that will move enough volume but doesn't work right with my booster even with an adapter plate.

You have other problems causing your poor braking. The bore size of a M/C will affect how far the pedal will travel and how much pedal pressure you need to exert, but any available bore size will provide enough volume and pressure if the rest of the system is set-up, adjusted, and bled properly. -- Can you explain the problems you are having?

For the record, Though I personally prefer the stock brake pieces for upgrades, I have allways found the SSBC kits to be the best "package" available, and would be my first choice for a kit.

[mopar1968]

Here in lies the problem.  A later year MC (4bolt) will bolt perfectly to my booster but doesn't provide enough volume to stop the car properly.  The bore size is not big enough.  The kit came with a 2 bolt MC that will move enough volume but doesn't work right with my booster even with an adapter plate.

You have other problems causing your poor braking. The bore size of a M/C will affect how far the pedal will travel and how much pedal pressure you need to exert, but any available bore size will provide enough volume and pressure if the rest of the system is set-up, adjusted, and bled properly. -- Can you explain the problems you are having?

For the record, Though I personally prefer the stock brake pieces for upgrades, I have allways found the SSBC kits to be the best "package" available, and would be my first choice for a kit.

Yes, the system is installed\bled properly.  After repeated calling SSBC, I finally reached a "Tech" that has explained the reason for the poor performance.  You MUST use their Master Cylinders regardless of the bolt pattern.  In my case it is a 4 bolt, but in the case of a manual car they ship you a booster and MC that is a 2 bolt.  They agreed to take my 2 bolt MC in trade for the proper 4 bolt yesterday.  Now it's all about shipping. 

My first few phone calls I guess I reached a Sales Person, and he had told me any 74-76 Disc MC 4bolt will work.  This is NOT the case.  It must be a MC provided by SSBC because of bore size and other details.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

I hope the new M/C they supply will cure your problems, but I caution that there is no "magic" M/C -theirs, or anyone else's. Since you have not provided any details on the problem you're having, it's hard to offer suggestions, but I would hate to see you wait for the new unit, go through all the hassles of installing it, bleeding, etc., and still have the same problem (whatever that may be).

[mopar1968]

I hope the new M/C they supply will cure your problems, but I caution that there is no "magic" M/C -theirs, or anyone else's. Since you have not provided any details on the problem you're having, it's hard to offer suggestions, but I would hate to see you wait for the new unit, go through all the hassles of installing it, bleeding, etc., and still have the same problem (whatever that may be).

The problem it was having with the 73-75  Disc Brake MC was:

1. Little Front Braking

The rear was working, kind of OK, and the added rear proportioning valve was turned way down to help feel out the fronts.  I had really good pedal, a booster just rebuild by Booster Duey, and brand new fluid bled properly with good pressure at the calipers when bled.  The system was bled 5 times to insure no air.  Go around the block, and I would get low to moderate braking, mostly the rears doing all the work.  Never could get the brakes to lock or work better.  Would not trust to go any further.

Called SSBC yesterday and the tech said that the master cylinder is not capable of running my NEW SSBC 4wheel disc brake system, and that I must use their MC.  If you have any other suggestions I'm open to them.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

I agree that getting the M/C they provide should be your first step since they state that it is the only one that will work, but I know guys that have put 6 piston Brembo brakes on their car with the stock M/C with zero issues, and I personally have installed the SSBC disks for other with no issues - even switched out their provided M/C once for an old A-body 7/8th inch bore unit to reduce pedal pressure to make the guys wife happy.

I'm not sure if you are running power brakes or not, but if you are, I would suspect a lack of vacuum. If they are manual, it sounds like a "too large" bore diameter on the M/C. Whatever the results, please post back with your results when you get the M/C they send you.

[mopar1968]

I agree that getting the M/C they provide should be your first step since they state that it is the only one that will work, but I know guys that have put 6 piston Brembo brakes on their car with the stock M/C with zero issues, and I personally have installed the SSBC disks for other with no issues - even switched out their provided M/C once for an old A-body 7/8th inch bore unit to reduce pedal pressure to make the guys wife happy.

I'm not sure if you are running power brakes or not, but if you are, I would suspect a lack of vacuum. If they are manual, it sounds like a "too large" bore diameter on the M/C. Whatever the results, please post back with your results when you get the M/C they send you.

It is Power Brakes with a rebuilt Original Booster.  Booster Duey did the work.  The Booster worked before the swap when I had drums, but I figured it's time to get it done.  It's definitely not a lack of vacuum as the pedal feels just like my New Dodge Ram.  You can hear it work and the pedal moves about 2 or so inches with good feel and not hard like a bad booster.

Like I stated before above, I am a brake and alignment tech.  But have never had a "kit" to put in.  I've only done rebuilds on factory systems and never had one yet that acted like this.  Is there something special I'm supposed to do regarding any factory items like valves or lines?  The fluid is good at each corner so I know everything is working.  Your help is appreciated.

[blue69]

The booster should fit. Power brake and manual brake cars use the same brake pedal and have the same firewall holes. One thing you have to do is unbolt the brake light switch and raise it to the higher set of holes. You also have to unbolt the booster pivot. This will give your pedal twice as much travel. I'm guessing the pushrod from the booster is located lower than the factory booster when mounted which would require the pedal the be in the manual brake position.  SSBC does make a 4 wheel disc master cylinder that has 4 bolts but it is very expensive. http://www.ssbrakes.com/products/detail/5302/?make=Dodge&model=Charger&year=1969 . If you have a factory 4 wheel drum booster, I don't think it will work. Mine was barely adequate when it had 2 wheel disc.

[mopar1968]

The booster should fit. Power brake and manual brake cars use the same brake pedal and have the same firewall holes. One thing you have to do is unbolt the brake light switch and raise it to the higher set of holes. You also have to unbolt the booster pivot. This will give your pedal twice as much travel. I'm guessing the pushrod from the booster is located lower than the factory booster when mounted which would require the pedal the be in the manual brake position.  SSBC does make a 4 wheel disc master cylinder that has 4 bolts but it is very expensive. http://www.ssbrakes.com/products/detail/5302/?make=Dodge&model=Charger&year=1969 . If you have a factory 4 wheel drum booster, I don't think it will work. Mine was barely adequate when it had 2 wheel disc.

No, the booster from the kit does NOT line up to my firewall.  Manual brake cars are different bolt pattern compared to power brake cars.  My buddy has a 70 manual brake charger and we confirmed this, and SSBC also said the same thing.  SSBC said my factory booster is fine and all I need is their MC.  That is why I had mine rebuilt.  I'd be curious to see if anyone has made the booster from the kit fit a power brake charger. 

As for the price difference, SSBC said to ship them the MC that came with the kit (2bolt), and they will ship back at no extra charge the proper 4 bolt.  It will only cost me shipping.  Again, was your car a factory Power Brake car or not?

[mopar1968]

OKAY,,, I'm in the garage right now with the factory booster pulled back out...

The booster included in the kit does not even come close to fitting the stock holes!  With or without the brackets they include...

I can redrill the brackets they included, or the car to fit the new booster, but...Seams hokey...

Hasn't anyone put one of these kits on that had factory power brakes??  I'm getting too many "what to do's" from SSBC and here.  Do I use my stock booster (freshly rebuilt) or the one from the kit??

HELP!

[mopar1968]

UPDATE......

I decided to not wait anylonger to try some things.  So, I installed the booster and Master Cylinder from the kit.  I had to drill the firewall and brackets to fit, but it wasn't that difficult.  So, now there is no question as to a mixture of old and new parts.  ALL PARTS are now from the kit.

Still having the same trouble.  Low braking.  It will stop, but my drum brakes were better.  Nothing compared to what it should be.  System has been bled several times, and there is NO air at all...

Any thoughts from the brake gu-rus?     FYI, this is a 4wheel disc brake kit, with MC and Booster from SSBC.     Thanks in advance.

[Animal]

I have the complete SSBC set up with 9" booster,along with rears.I went with the most expensive omes,whatever the part No may be.I have found that the fronts will not lock up no matter how hard I hit that peddle.Even with proportionate valve set both ways.Booster works fine.Is there something amiss with this set up.as the brakes are not good & don't stop in an emergency.
Adam.

[blue69]

How many inches of vacuum is your engine producing? The amount of assist a vacuum booster produces is proportional to the amount of vacuum it receives. I think 18" of vacuum is recommended. If you don't mind the non-original look, I recommend a hydro-boost booster. There are a few places that sell kits to install one. I installed one on my charger with 4 wheel disc and I have no problem getting the wheels to lock up. You can also try a manual brake setup.

[firefighter3931]

The brake pushrod is in a different location on the brake pedal when comparing disc vs drum brakes from what i've read. This could be a possible issue with your current installation and lack of pedal pressure. The disc brake rod is supposed to be higher up on the brake pedal to produce increased leverage. You might need an adjustable pushrod to make this work properly. Mancini carries the adjustable brake pushrods. Something to consider at least if all else fails...


Ron

[mopar1968]

I have the complete SSBC set up with 9" booster,along with rears.I went with the most expensive omes,whatever the part No may be.I have found that the fronts will not lock up no matter how hard I hit that peddle.Even with proportionate valve set both ways.Booster works fine.Is there something amiss with this set up.as the brakes are not good & don't stop in an emergency.
Adam.

I had given up on this post since nothing was working and no new info was being written.  I have what sounds like the same kit as you, and the exact same problem.  Vacuum is good at 16+, Booster is new, Master Cylinder is new, 4-wheel disc brake kit is new.  SSBC says that this is a bolt in kit.  No modification necessary to the brake pedal, booster or anything.  Just bolt in and go....

Ya right!  Next time I will purchase the Master Power Brake Kit.....I knew something was up when I started bolting FORD parts on my Mopar.....

[8WHEELER]

This is the MPB unit I bought, they say you will need to drill another hole in your brake pedal
arm of your car, if your car was manual brakes. But the system will work with power drum or disc brakes.

I found a stock Hemi booster, witch has the correct stud battern to go through the fire wall
as the stock unit. Then I used the same stile master as the MPB unit, works fantastic.
Instaling the MPB unit is at least a two man job, with the adapter plates, then you have to
use nuts and bolts to hold it to the firewall. Its a good unit, but kind of a pain to install.

Dan

[Animal]

The brake pushrod is in a different location on the brake pedal when comparing disc vs drum brakes from what i've read. This could be a possible issue with your current installation and lack of pedal pressure. The disc brake rod is supposed to be higher up on the brake pedal to produce increased leverage. You might need an adjustable pushrod to make this work properly. Mancini carries the adjustable brake pushrods. Something to consider at least if all else fails...


Ron

Ron,I have an adjustable push rod that came with the kit.I am open to any suggestions.When I read the instructions,it says to use the rear resevoir for fronts if it is a ford & front resevoir if it is a GMC.As it does not state what resevoir to use for a mopar,I used the biggest,which is the front.regarding the adjustable rod,do I have to set it up,as the brake peddle does not hit the floor & you can't push it any more than about half way.So thinking it is adjusted OK.Please HELP.Thanks Adam.

[firefighter3931]

The brake pushrod is in a different location on the brake pedal when comparing disc vs drum brakes from what i've read. This could be a possible issue with your current installation and lack of pedal pressure. The disc brake rod is supposed to be higher up on the brake pedal to produce increased leverage. You might need an adjustable pushrod to make this work properly. Mancini carries the adjustable brake pushrods. Something to consider at least if all else fails...


Ron

Ron,I have an adjustable push rod that came with the kit.I am open to any suggestions.When I read the instructions,it says to use the rear resevoir for fronts if it is a ford & front resevoir if it is a GMC.As it does not state what resevoir to use for a mopar,I used the biggest,which is the front.regarding the adjustable rod,do I have to set it up,as the brake peddle does not hit the floor & you can't push it any more than about half way.So thinking it is adjusted OK.Please HELP.Thanks Adam.

 

Adam, are you saying that the biggest reservoir on your master is at the front ? That's the way i'm reading your description. All mopars that i've seen with power disc brakes have had the large reservoir on the back and that is where the front brake lines were routed. It sounds like the master cylinder is incorrect for a Mopar brake system if that is the case. As Dan (8 wheeler) confirmed above ; the brake pushrod needs to be moved up on the brake pedal arm. This confims what i had heard before about factory drum brake vs disc brake pedal assemblies being different in terms of the brake pushrod location. Looking at the pic he posted above, the large reservoir appears to be at the rear of the master cylinder.

Try contacting SS Brakes with these concerns and seek some clarification. I'll be doing a power drum to manual disc conversion soon on mine useing the a-156-2 kit with the 4 piston aluminum calipers and slotted rotors. The feedback i recieved on that setup was positive from those who had made the conversion. I'm not anticipating any problems based on what i've heard....


Ron


Ps. Ok, i just went and dug out my master cylinder that came with the kit. It has the large reservoir at the back, closest to the firewall. That is where i would hook up the front brake lines when installing it. If your master has the big reservoir on the front....i'm pretty sure that it's incorrect for the application.

[Animal]

Ron,what difference does it make what resevoir you use,just out of curiosity.Thanks Adam.

[firefighter3931]

Ron,what difference does it make what resevoir you use,just out of curiosity.Thanks Adam.

If you think of it in terms of brake bias....the majority of your braking will come from the front brakes....roughly 80-85%. A caliper requires more fluid volume compared to the smaller piston on a wheel cylinder....therefore the larger reservoir. If you look at a drum brake master cylinder, you'll notice that both reservoirs are the same size.

Having the front brake reservoir on the rear of the master will exert more pressure because the master cylinder is engageing the front brakes first....earlier in the brake pedal stroke. The rear brakes which "proprtionally" need less pedal pressure to engage and being of relative lesser importance are secondary. That's probably an oversimplified way of looking at things...and i'm sure there's a much better technical explanation. 


Ron

[Animal]

The only reason I ask is SSBC say Ford & GMC use front or back,so one of them must be using front resivoir for front brakes.Very confusing.Thanks Ron,maybe you can put me out of my misery.

[firefighter3931]

Adam, i've been reading through my installation instructions and it says the same thing in the "solutions guide" to commonly asked questions. I agree, the wording is contradictory and the explanation vague, at best  It's time to make the call and see what they have to say. Personally, i think you've go the wrong master cylinder for a Mopar application. 

Ron

Ps. Ok i just found this on page 3 of the installation guide ;

"When installing your new master cylinder, remember that the rear port of the master cylinder is for the front brakes and the front port is for the rear brakes "

[Animal]

Thanks Ron,I will phone SSBC tomorow.They only mention Ford or GMC in the instructions which makes me think you are right about wrong master :flame:BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

[firefighter3931]

BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

That pretty much confirms that you have the wrong master. The back reservoir is distinctively larger on the disc brake application...there is no mistake identifying which is which. Have a look at Dan's pic above...that is what yours should look like.

Let us know what they say Adam...i'm positive you'll be recieving a new master cylinder shortly. 


Ron

[mopar1968]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

[firefighter3931]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Have you recieved the new Master from SSbrakes yet ? You could have recieved a defective master (or the incorrect one for the application),,,anything is possible    What is the bore diameter on the master that's in there now ? It sounds like a fluid volume issue to me with the 4 disc setup.

I wouldn't go ripping it all out just yet.


Ron

[mopar1968]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Have you recieved the new Master from SSbrakes yet ? You could have recieved a defective master (or the incorrect one for the application),,,anything is possible    What is the bore diameter on the master that's in there now ? It sounds like a fluid volume issue to me with the 4 disc setup.

I wouldn't go ripping it all out just yet.


Ron

Actually, the master I bought locally is the same thing they were going to ship.  I bought a NEW Master from Autozone, that is identical in specs to the SSBC unit.

If it is a fluid volume issue, then the SSBC master will do the same thing.  1 1/32 bore, 73-76 Dodge Disc Brake unit.  That is exactly what I have.  I even returned it and got another hoping it was the master.  I think it is just a poorly designed kit that is underpowered for the car.  Mustang rotors, T-bird calipers, and who knows what else.  Even the brackets and bolts look like something a high school student would make in metal shop.  I watched the car programs this weekend, and watched an episode with a disc brake upgrade.  All the components were like way better engineered than my kit.  They were using a Wilwood kit.  Live and learn?

The Wilwood, Baer, and Master Power Brakes kits are chosen by more pro's then SSBC.  I guess I know why now.  I've spent close to 2k on this kit, including the rears.  For that kind of money I could have easily purchased the Baer kit that seam to satisfy people like....Chip Foose!

[blue69]

BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

That pretty much confirms that you have the wrong master. The back reservoir is distinctively larger on the disc brake application...there is no mistake identifying which is which. Have a look at Dan's pic above...that is what yours should look like.

Let us know what they say Adam...i'm positive you'll be recieving a new master cylinder shortly. 


Ron

Firefighter3931 , if he is using 4 wheel disc, the front and rear resevoirs should be about the same size. The reason the resevoir for the front is bigger on disc/drum is because disc brakes are self adjusting and as the pads in the caliper wear out the piston's stationary position moves and takes up more fluid. On a all wheel disc master cylinder both resevoirs are large. If the master cylinder looks like this, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-67-76-CORVETTE-MASTER-CYLINDER-W-POWER-BRAKES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34199QQihZ007QQitemZ170009999469QQrdZ1 it should work. Most kits use a corvette master cylinder for 4 wheel disc conversions. One thing to keep in mind is the corvette master cylinder has the brake port sizes backwards (9/16" for the front brakes and  1/2" for the rear)  compared a mopar. I think the front brakes should be connected to the port closest to the booster on both, but you should double check with ssbc. The bore size is usually 1 1/8" on 4 wheel disc kits.

EDIT: I looked it up at http://www.hydratechbraking.com/products/mastercylinders.html . On a corvette master cylinder the front port goes to the front brakes and the rear port goes to the rear brakes. This is opposite of a mopar master cylinder in which front port goes to the rear brakes and the rear port goes to the front brakes. The site says there is a 65/35 split between the front and rear volume delivered so it could make a big difference if it was reversed.

[mopar1968]

BTW,it's very difficult to tell which one has the larger resevoir,front or rear. Thanks Adam.

That pretty much confirms that you have the wrong master. The back reservoir is distinctively larger on the disc brake application...there is no mistake identifying which is which. Have a look at Dan's pic above...that is what yours should look like.

Let us know what they say Adam...i'm positive you'll be recieving a new master cylinder shortly. 


Ron

Firefighter3931 , if he is using 4 wheel disc, the front and rear resevoirs should be about the same size. The reason the resevoir for the front is bigger on disc/drum is because disc brakes are self adjusting and as the pads in the caliper wear out the piston's stationary position moves and takes up more fluid. On a all wheel disc master cylinder both resevoirs are large. If the master cylinder looks like this, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-67-76-CORVETTE-MASTER-CYLINDER-W-POWER-BRAKES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34199QQihZ007QQitemZ170009999469QQrdZ1 it should work. Most kits use a corvette master cylinder for 4 wheel disc conversions. One thing to keep in mind is the corvette master cylinder has the brake port sizes backwards (9/16" for the front brakes and  1/2" for the rear)  compared a mopar. I think the front brakes should be connected to the port closest to the booster on both, but you should double check with ssbc. The bore size is usually 1 1/8" on 4 wheel disc kits.

You have pointed out an excellent issue.....

If you order the 4wheel disc kit like I did for a NON POWER Brake car, they ship you a booster and Master Cylinder as you describe (Same size bowls and reversed connections).  If you order the kit for a Power Brake Car, they ship you the standard Master from a 73-76 Dodge Disc Brake car and NO booster.  The bore size is different between them as the Mopar unit is 1 1/32 and the SSBC is 1 1/8.   

I've called Tech support 4 times now, and they same the same thing each time.  They say the MC for the Mopar WILL work fine for their kit on a Power Brake Car.  For a NON Power car, use their MC and their booster.

Has anyone here installed this kit on a FACTORY POWER BRAKE CAR?  I know some have on a NON, but that won't apply to my situation as the pedal setups are different.

[Animal]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Sorry to hijack your post,but at the same time it must of been of great help to you,as it was for me,as we seem to have the same set up.does it really matter at the end of the day.I hope you sort your problem out if not already.Adam.

[Animal]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. .Ps Looked @ the site again,from what i can make out,the 65/35 bias means you have more power to the front resevoir,which means I am now going to get more power to the back brakes.Should I have swapped them round .Thanks Adam

[mopar1968]

I'm glad my post could be so helpful to both of you.  Maybe someday someone will help me and my problem.  I know SSBC won't. 

Oh well, maybe I'll rip this crappy system off and Ebay it.  Then I can afford the other kit from Master Power Brakes.....

Sorry to hijack your post,but at the same time it must of been of great help to you,as it was for me,as we seem to have the same set up.does it really matter at the end of the day.I hope you sort your problem out if not already.Adam.

You don't have to apologize.  I was using my bucket of sarcasm.  Seams I have buckets and buckets of the stuff.

[mopar1968]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. ???Thanks to all.

So, what did you do exactly?  Did you change the Master Cylinder to.... what??  4bolt - 2bolt??  Front line to where and rear to where??  What difference before and after??

Thanks!!  I'm sooooooo frustrated right now.  Silly me, I buy a kit and it seams I have to engineer it to work.

[Animal]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. ???Thanks to all.

So, what did you do exactly?  Did you change the Master Cylinder to.... what??  4bolt - 2bolt??  Front line to where and rear to where??  What difference before and after??

Thanks!!  I'm sooooooo frustrated right now.  Silly me, I buy a kit and it seams I have to engineer it to work.

I am also confused,I've since read about 65/35 bias on master.Is this 65 to front or rear resevoir,cause if its rear i am OK,if fronts ive got the rears running off this one now.I wait in antisipation.Thanks Adam

[blue69]

Animal, it looks like chevy's of that era used front brakes->front resevoir. Take a look at this '71 nova disc/drum master . If the fronts are locking up first, it sounds like it is hooked up right. It's possible the rears are locking up first because the rear calipers have smaller piston's and take less volume. I don't know if ssbc uses the same master cylinder as the link I posted, so it is best to check with them to see which port belongs to the front or rear.

[mopar1968]

It looks like chevy's of that era used front brakes->front resevoir. Take a look at this '71 nova disc/drum master . If the fronts are locking up first, it sounds like it is hooked up right. It's possible the rears are locking up first because the rear calipers have smaller piston's and take less volume. I don't know if ssbc uses the same master cylinder as the link I posted, so it is best to check with them to see which port belongs to the front or rear.

I think we are getting off here.  The Master Cylinder available for the Charger (4bolt mounting flange) is only 1 choice.  There are no other choices.  If you order the SSBC kit for a manual brake car, you get the booster master cylinder combo from them (2bolt flange). 

I don't think everyone trying to help knows this.  The SSBC for a Manual Brake car comes with a Booster and their Master (equal bowls).  The SSBC for a Power car comes only with a Master for a 73-76 car (big bowl toward booster, small toward front of car).

WIth either Master, you can not change the order in which the lines connect.  With the 73-76 Mopar Master the lines connect one way, and with the SSBC Master the lines are reversed.   BOTH masters have plenty of fulid storage.  I've tried both masters with the correct boosters just for kicks, and it makes absolutely no difference.  The car stops the same, like crap.

For an original power brake car, you can NOT bolt a chevy master cylinder to it.  For a non power car, with the SSBC booster it may be possible.  I'm not using that one, I'm using my factory booster.  SSBC only sells 1 master for original power brake cars (4bolt flange).  You can get them chromed or polished, but it is the same master.

[blue69]

mopar1968 if you are running the factory 4 wheel drum booster take a look at this post http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1774.0.html . NYCMille said he was only getting 400-600 psi with the stock drum booster. Disc brakes need 1200-1400 psi. I was never happy with my brakes when I had front disc/rear drum and a factory 4 wheel drum booster. It was never able to lock the brakes. I never checked the pressure, but I suspect it was too low.

[mopar1968]

mopar1968 if you are running the factory 4 wheel drum booster take a look at this post http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1774.0.html . NYCMille said he was only getting 400-600 psi with the stock drum booster. Disc brakes need 1200-1400 psi. I was never happy with my brakes when I had front disc/rear drum and a factory 4 wheel drum booster. It was never able to lock the brakes. I never checked the pressure, but I suspect it was too low.

I agree.  That is the only thing left to check.  The actual psi at the calipers.  It's just a shame.  SSBC assured me this kit will bolt to my car, using the factory (rebuilt) booster, and a master cylinder for a later model disc brake car.  Vacuum is good at 16+ and everything is installed per the instructions.

I'll put my gauge on it this weekend.  It's too hot this week (110 in Bakersfield, CA) and the heat ads to the frustrations.  I was leaning toward additional vacuum boost but was hoping someone would pop in with "turn this screw" or "add this easy piece".  I should have known better with these Mopars.

Thanks to all who racked their brains for me.  I'll post an update once the psi is checked and additional boost is added if needed.

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter3931 , if he is using 4 wheel disc, the front and rear resevoirs should be about the same size. The reason the resevoir for the front is bigger on disc/drum is because disc brakes are self adjusting and as the pads in the caliper wear out the piston's stationary position moves and takes up more fluid. On a all wheel disc master cylinder both resevoirs are large. If the master cylinder looks like this, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-67-76-CORVETTE-MASTER-CYLINDER-W-POWER-BRAKES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34199QQihZ007QQitemZ170009999469QQrdZ1 it should work. Most kits use a corvette master cylinder for 4 wheel disc conversions. One thing to keep in mind is the corvette master cylinder has the brake port sizes backwards (9/16" for the front brakes and  1/2" for the rear)  compared a mopar. I think the front brakes should be connected to the port closest to the booster on both, but you should double check with ssbc. The bore size is usually 1 1/8" on 4 wheel disc kits.

EDIT: I looked it up at http://www.hydratechbraking.com/products/mastercylinders.html . On a corvette master cylinder the front port goes to the front brakes and the rear port goes to the rear brakes. This is opposite of a mopar master cylinder in which front port goes to the rear brakes and the rear port goes to the front brakes. The site says there is a 65/35 split between the front and rear volume delivered so it could make a big difference if it was reversed.

Thanks Blue...you are right. For some reason i was thinking Adam had drum brakes on the back. Thanks for pointing that out.


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. .Ps Looked @ the site again,from what i can make out,the 65/35 bias means you have more power to the front resevoir,which means I am now going to get more power to the back brakes.Should I have swapped them round .Thanks Adam

That's good news Adam....sounds like a huge improvement.  The pads may need a little time to break in especially when everything is new. Chris (6t9charger) reported that his brakes felt better after a little run time on the system...

Now if we could get Mopar1968's brakes sorted out all would be good.  I'll be interested to hear what happens with the new master cylinder from SS brakes. The line pressure test should help sort things out.


Ron

[mopar1968]

Blue 69,I have the same master as you show,also changed the lines over today as Ron pointed out,rear resevoir front brake line,what a difference,the wheels lock up.Am i right in saying the brakes are better when hot,as they don't work as well when cold.Maybe something to do with SSBC pads. .Ps Looked @ the site again,from what i can make out,the 65/35 bias means you have more power to the front resevoir,which means I am now going to get more power to the back brakes.Should I have swapped them round .Thanks Adam

That's good news Adam....sounds like a huge improvement.  The pads may need a little time to break in especially when everything is new. Chris (6t9charger) reported that his brakes felt better after a little run time on the system...

Now if we could get Mopar1968's brakes sorted out all would be good.  I'll be interested to hear what happens with the new master cylinder from SS brakes. The line pressure test should help sort things out.


Ron

There is no MC coming from SSBC anymore.  I have the one they kept referring to as "special" for their kit.  It just took 4 phone calls to the right person to verify this.  They sell the exact same MC as the auto parts store does for 73-76 Monoco.  SSBC just charges $95+ for theirs versus $40 for Autozone NEW, not rebuilt, MC.  Sometimes it takes a while to find an honest person at these companies. 

I'm at the end of testing, as the pressure at the calipers is the only thing left to check.  SSBC should have put a warning on their product that it will not work with a stock booster unless you have 26+ of vacuum like Baer did for NYCMille.  It just shows the difference in technical knowledge from one company to another.  Just because you find a rotor that fits, and make some brackets for some calipers that "should" work, doesn't mean the kit is "engineered". 

Baer knows this and that is why they manufacturer all their own pieces.  I know what company I'm using on my ElCamino build up.  Hopefully, that is my problem.  A hydroboost setup is needed or vacuum pump.  At least I might be able to drive this Charger with piece of mind some day.

[NYCMille]

You have a PM.

[DJF]

Hello,

Did anyone find a solution for this problem as I have exactly the same fault as Mopar 1968.
I have the A155 Rear disc Brake kit and the Front A156-2 Kit on my OE Power braked car. I have checked everything twice I have a booster with 25" of vacume I jump on the brakes with enough force I feel my knee cap wanting to escape my leg and smack me in the chops and the car begins to slow. Thats it! no wheels locking! I cant bring this car to a sharp stop even at 5mph. Im so frustrated.

If anyone has any more info please let me know

Thanks
Daryl

[Mick70RR]

Just wait until your first panic stop from 120MPH. I don't think the SSBC brake kit is up to the job, simple as that. If I could afford it, I would swap it out for a better kit but until then I'll just have to take it easy and keep my distance.

[mauve66]

just found this thread and read with great interest, my car was originally a 4 drum power brake car

i also got SSBC rear kit and the A156 front kit (directions also say A156-2, doesn't state a difference)

i got this kit from Mancini Racing  (their add didn't say anything about power or manual brakes) and installed it 7-8 years ago (the car has seen less than 20 miles since then), following the directions i used a replacement/rebuilt 66 booster from AutoZone and the MC that came with the kit (both reservoirs are the same size), after bench bleeding the MC and bleeding the calipers 4-5 times i have an extremely hard pedal that will barely bring the car to a stop from 10 MPH.  Since the rest of the car wasn't up to snuff i thought it would work itself out i was able to use it on a regular basis.  still the same pedal after all this time.  I had never called SSBC thinking it was just me.  I bought this kit due to some mag articles saying how good they were.

does anybody have a pic of the pedal linkage comparing a power brake car to a manual car?? all i get from this thread is that this may be our only way out other than scrapping the whole system
i've been told over the years that it would have to do with the pushrod length but none of those discussions had an absolute answer either

this thread is over 3 years old so i'm hoping there has been a solution for the masses??

[DJF]

Just wait until your first panic stop from 120MPH. I don't think the SSBC brake kit is up to the job, simple as that. If I could afford it, I would swap it out for a better kit but until then I'll just have to take it easy and keep my distance.

Panic Stop!! oh yeah!!! I have been there ... I call it a fly by!! I live in England as well roads here are narrow and twisty. I have a massive car by british standard, accelerates like greased owl s*** and cant stop for all the tea in China. Not for the want of trying either.

E-amiled SSBC as well coz its just not right, they have asked for all the regular checks so I have reponded with the bad news, lets see what they come back with.

[GreenMachine]

I seem to remember reading somewhere where someone used different brake pads then what SSBC supplies and was an improvement.

[C500]

I'm a little late on this one, but wanted to know if there was any success for mopar1968?

I installed a set of front disc brakes from SSBC on my old 68. The car had power brakes and I went with kit A156, leaving the drums in the rear. The brakes were pretty bad at first, but after they were "bed in", they were great. Took a few miles and some hard stomping on the pedal - as per the instructions from SSBC. Surely I'm not stating the obvious here, but did you guys with the fresh disc brake installations allow for the pads and rotors to bed in?