color sanding?

[my69]

I'm just wondering when I get started on painting my car  The term "color sanding"
comes to mind What the sam h_ _ _  is it? How does one do it?  Is there a technique on how this is done?
Does it require the DA sander? Or is it done by hand?

I guess I need some instruction on this topic?

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hi my69,This is a subject that I can go on all day explaining to you,I'll try to do it in a short.Color sanding is what is described as sanding and buffing your top(finish coat),which would be some form of urethane/polyurethane,enamel or even laquer if you chose.This is something you should have experience in,and have an assortment of tools and supplys for this process.It also depends on how far you want to take your level of flatness of the paint job,( this is where it can be alot of work).First,if you plan on sanding and buffing the paint super flat(thats how I do it),you better have a real straight body,and enough material on it that will be being removed in the process.The reason for the straight body,the flatter you make the finish,any and all imperfections(dents,waves,ripples etc.)will  be magnified with the finish being this way.Next ? was DA or by hand?I use both.The DA should be a finish DA with an orbit path of 3/32.I use an airvantage,but there are others out there such as Dynabrade.Then I have an assortment of rubber blocks for the hand wet sanding.Like I said about tools and materials,if you don't have these items,you will be spending some $$$ to get them.By the time you buy your DA,buffer,compounds,blocks, and sandpaper,you can be talking in the relm of $500.00-$600.00 range.When your sanding,with not alot clear on the car per say,and you break thru, now your in trouble!!!! Normally ,if you use a clear that is a medium to high solid,and you aplly 2-3 coats(at the right mills,and not dry)you would be safe to start out using 1000 grit,working your way thru 1200 and then to 1500.I have seen and actually know people who go out to 2000 grit,but the way I do it ,it is a waste of time,you can buff from the 1500 grit scratches.The way I do my cars is first,the paint job has 4 coats of clear giving me enough to chop off,I start sanding by hand(wet),with 600 grit,then to 800 grit,then 800 on the DA to get rid of the 800 "line scratches",then 1200 on the DA.(Sometimes using the interface pad),rough buff from there,then I let it sit for a month or two,rolling the car outside in the sun every so often to let it settle up more.Then,DA it again with 1200 followed by 1500,and start my finish buffing.Like I said,there is alot more that I can be going over with you,but I would be writing forever.When you get ready to attempt this,this site will becomea usefull tool for you.Hope this answered your ?'s.Leaving for Carlisle now,take care.

[Drop Top]

Color Sanding is done after the car is painted. Its done to get rid of imperfections and orange peel. There is a system that is used with a D/A. But to do just one car is a bit expensive to buy. So for the person doing it at home, hand is the most comen. I still color sand by hand. The D/A system works good in a body shop envierment. But for a good high class show car for many resions its better done by hand.

You talk to 10 people and you'll get 10 differant ways of Color Sanding and Buffing. But basiclly you sand the car with 1000 grit or finer entill the car is compleatlly dull and all inperfections are gone. Then you buff all those sand scratches out to a high gloss. The finer the scratches the easier it is to buff and the glosser it is. Sounds easy but to do it right is very time consuming. Its better or easier done on a base/clear paint job. But it can be done with the same results on a single stag paint job.

I use 3 differant grades of paper. Then I use 3 differant grades of compound, each time with a differant pad. The last pad is a fine foam one. Then I use a hand glaze and go over the car by hand. There is a detail shop here in town. All he dose is high end jobs. Depending on the car and how well it was painted. He charges anywhere from $500 to $3000 to do a car.

The reasion I sand the car 3 times is. The corser the paper you use the first time the flater you will get the paint to look. Then its just about sanding the courser sand scratches out with each next step. Same with the compounds. The first compound is to get the sand scratches out. The rest is to get the swirle marks out that the last compound left. Like I said before hand this is all about show winning paint. Not all people go to this extreem.

[Rack]

Is the color sanding done after the last base coat or after the clear is put on?

[my69]

Color Sanding is done after the car is painted.

  Its better or easier done on a base/clear paint job. But it can be done with the same results on a single stag paint job.

Rack!
This is part of the quote that drop top just replied, So it seems You do this after the paint is dried a day or so I'm assuming?

The replies from  69our/tea AND drop top cleared the mud away thatr much more FOR that I say thanks.   But I do have a question, On the 3 different "grades" of paper, WHICH ones should I be looking at? Also on  the componding IS there different ones too? If so what ones should I refer to,
Thanks for answering my first Question Drop top!!! 

69OUR/TEA Hope you'll have a great time at carlisle!!  Maybe some day OR Year i'll get to go.

Winston

[Rack]

Yeah I'm just not clear if the color sanding happens before the clear goes on or after. And, as you mentioned, how long to wait.


I'm a long way from that anyway and I likely won't paint my own car so it's no big deal if I know now anyway.

[Drop Top]

Color Sanding is done on the clear not on the base.

As far as grades of paper. That depends on the amount of orange peel, if you need to sand a run out, the system you are useing (D/A or by hand) and the persons perferance. The brand of paper also makes a big differance. For that matter I have found the differant brands clears act differant also.

As a rule I use 1000 then 1500 then 2000. Remember I do it all by hand. Usually I start the next day after painting. I sand the car with 1000. The next day 1500. the next 2000. Then I like to let it sit a few more days before I buff. I used to try and get everything sanded as fast as possable. But I have found out over the years that you need to let it sit a little between to cure out a little. Hears a few tips. DON"T use 3M paper for this. Use Meguiers. It a much better paper. Stays sharp longer and dosent leave as bad of scratches behind. Soke the paper for at least 10 min before using. Use a drop or two of dish soap in the water. This will help the paper to last a bit longer. Use alot of water. use a spong and let a little water run over the area your sanding. This will help lubracate and keep the area clean. Dip the paper into the bucket often. This will keep the paper clean. Pay attintion, If you hear a high pitch squeal stop and wash your paper and the area your sanding. If you don't you will end up with a big scratch. As a rule of thumb one sheet of paper per panel. Charger 1/4 panels 2 sheets.

Compounds also a BIG prefrance. Some like 3M products. In fact 3M was the most widely used entill they had to change the way they made them. I don't use 3M anymore for my compounds. There are some things I wont tell and this is one of them. It probley wouldn't work for you anyway because It has alot to do with the kind of clear I use. I also do a little of my own mixing. But I will tell you. I use a wool cutting pad with a heavy duty compound first. Then I use a medium wool pad with a medium type of compound. Then I use a fine foam pad and a glaze for my final buffing. I also keep a bucket of soapy water with a sheet of 2500 next to me just in case I have a deep scratch that I can't buff out. Some times you just miss some scratches during the sanding stage. Another tip. This holds true for both sanding and buffing. Make sure you get all of the previous scratches or swrills out before moving on to the next stage. If you don't you'll just be over working yourself.

                                                D/T

[my69]

Very interesting  D/T     I'll have to keep in mind  of all the possibilities. 
   One things for sure  WHICH I preety much knew is that there will be a full weeks vacation on painting the charger IF all things go well that is

[69 OUR/TEA]

my69,here are some pics to show you what you can achieve with some sanding and buffing.Like I said though,what level you can go to,is determined by what you put on for clear,what I mean is medium solids,high solids,number of coats you put on,urethane,polyurethane,etc.Some brands sand alot easier than others,and like Droptop said he starts with 1000 grit,this probably works excellent on the clear he uses,but what I had used on my car was PPG 2021 with DCX 61 hardener.I used to use PPG 2001,but I found that it "tightens up" alot more than 2021,and does not produce the depth and gloss of 2021.2021 is also a high solids low voc clear.So this is why I use 2021, BUT,you have to work alot harder at 2021 to get it super flat as apposed to 2001.
  Like I had said,I applied 4 coats knowing I will be chopping off alot.It sounds crazy that I would start sanding with such an aggressive grit,but this clear,2021,if you start out even at 1000,you will think you got it flat as can be,but after you buff it ,you will still see some small peel left in it.So what you see was sanded with 600 wet then 800 wet(with a rubber block),then 800 DA followed by 1200 DA.The two steps of blocking rip the peel out and keep your paint straight.On the DA process,It is the hookit 2 system with the interface pad(cushion)between the paper and da pad.This is so you do not put ripples back into the paint and make your paint job look wavy.The 800 DA step gets rid of the 800 scratches from the blocking,and the 1200 DA grit step gets rid of the 800 DA scratches,and believe it or not,the 1200 DA scratches(because they were from a DA with 3/32 orbit) actually are easier to biff back then if it were 1500 from a snading block(lines).What you see in the pics is buffed from 1200 DA with an extra cut compound (on the Megiurs W 7000 foam pad)followed by a regular cutting compound on the Megiurs W 9000 foam pad.It comes right back,and no scratches left.The foam pads do a nice job of cleanup whereas the wool pads sling the compound everywhere,wool is flying everywhere,and if you have good eyes ,you can actually see circular lines left in the clear from the wool pads.One more thing to note is that after I sanded the clear,I leave the paint "open' for a couple of days before buffing,this alows some more solvent to get out of the paint.This is how I will leave for a month or two,while I start putting it back together,then I will be doing a lighter follow up sanding and buffing.Being that this is a light blue,it does not give a deep reflection when you look at straight on,this is one of the reasons this is not my favorite color,but being a real R/T,I had to leave it this color.I would have rather have done it Black or T5 copper.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Two more with one outside.

[tan top]

i agree . Drop top & 69our/tea ,    , also dependent on what type of lacquer & hardener has been used i flat & polish with in 12 hours . also i find the new type  h/s  ( 1 light coat then hit it straight away with a full coat ) witch is the recommended appleaction , is harder to polish after  12 hours. agreed stopped using 3m stuff also probably for the same reason ( drop top)  .