Quick Ratio Steering?

[71mopar383]

What is the difference between swapping out a c-bodies pitman arm and idler or buying the set from Firm Feel?  Other than a couple hundred bucks?

[is_it_EVER_done?]

To use the C-body pitman, you need to have a later model steering box that has the large sector output shaft. the early boxes used a smaller diameter output shaft, and need the pitman made for them = expensive, but may be worth it if you aren't in a position to go JY shopping for a later box, but as you pointed out, you save a couple hundred bucks if you change to the later large output box.

[71mopar383]

Well I have a manual box now so I was going to pull the whole thing to convert to power steering I figures I could get it all at once.

[Wakko]

This is the first I've heard of this but my interest is piqued.  My entire steering assembly needs to be replaced...what would I need to get?  Any negatives?

[Mike DC]

Hey Ian.

The Firm-Feel deal with longer idler & pitman arms is basically just the old AAR/TA setup for the factory Trans-Am Challengers & Cudas.  They repro'd the steering box arm, and created a matching arm for the other side.  (The factory didn't originally even do a longer arm for both sides!) 

For reference, a lot of modern cars & trucks seem to hover around 14:1 and 15:1 for their steering ratios.

stock Mopar manual steering ratio:  24:1
early NASCAR manual steering ratio:  20:1  (too much low-speed effort required to ever use this setup on a street car)
stock Mopar power-assisted steering ratio:  16:1
AAR/TA (and repro Firm-Feel) steering ratio:  12:1

Downsides to the faster ratio?

--  Well, I think the steering doesn't have any "stopper" with the faster-ratio setup in place.  When it gets to full-lock on eather side, the inner tire hits the framerail before anything else stops it.  Nothing really BAD, just a mild annoyance.  (it's not gonna do any mechanical damage to the steering system or the framerail or anything.)  You could weld a piece of metal onto the lower control arms or something to stop it correctly if it bothers you.  On my Charger (stock PS setup), is already hitting the framerails with 8-inch-wide rims on the front anyway.

--  12:1 is also a bit on the "fast" side in general.  Nothing dangerous, but on highway trips it might get a little bit old after a while because a very small input on the wheel makes a big difference in the car's direction.  Higher speeds like slower steering.

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What do you wanna do?

If you don't wanna re-invent the wheel but the stock steering on your car is too loose to deal with, then I'd probably get a rebuilt (stock) PS box from Firm-Feel or somebody.  Maybe get their "one-notch-tighter-than-stock" valving and be done with it.  Get that, get it adjusted correctly when you install it, and it will cure the worst of the problem without causing any side-effects at all.  A fresh tight recirculating-ball steering box (with a front suspension that's not totally worn out) should feel as tight as any modern fullsize truck/SUV platform.

If you wanna REALLY improve the steering and you want more of the "modern car" feel, then I'd get a rack & pinion conversion (and keep the rest of the stock K-frame & suspesion).  It's a lot of money (about $1000 I think) but it would make more of a difference than anything else.  That would TOTALLY eliminate the "motorboat" floaty feeling of Mopar's stock steering and it would feel like a modern sports car.  I'm not saying you really need to do a full R/P conversion just to fix sloppy steering on a Charger, but I'm saying that the R/P option exists now.


The faster steering ratio options are something that you might wanna do out of personal preference.
But if a loose steering box is what's making you open the hood in the first place, then I'm thinking the steering box what you should probably spend your money on first.

 

[Wakko]

I'm in there now, the old box/steering/suspension is shot and it's all getting swapped out.  I Can get a reman factory PS unit for $109 locally and had planned on just doing that, but if I could tighten the steering down a bit to make it a quicker ratio I would.  Is Firm Feel the only way or is there a transplantable gearbox from another car that would work?

[Mike DC]

 
Don't take this as gospel, but I think all the Mopar recirculating-ball PS gearboxes are basically the same item for a couple of decades.

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--  The faster 12:1 steering ratio was entirely a product of the idler & pitman arm setup rather than any change in the steering gearbox itself.  (I think the AAR/TA steering box had some added internal stops for the lock-to-lock issue, but no other changes in the actual steering gears from the standard boxes.)

--  The factory "police" gearboxes were a little bit tighter than the others. 
But as I understand it, this it was accomplished by hand-matching & assembling the stock box components.  So they just built the police cars' steering boxes with the tolerances that ALL the gearboxes really should have been getting in the first place.

--  I don't know how the current reman'd boxes are being rebuilt in terms of tolerances; I haven't heard anything one way or the other. 

--  If you get someplace like "Steer & Gear" or "Firm Feel" to sell you a rebuilt PS box, they usually advertise the "police" level as their standard offering and then work up from there.  (The several levels of additional "road feel" means they're decreasing the amount of power-assist with minor valving changes.  Less power-assist = more road feel.)

[8WHEELER]

I have bought three, stage two boxes from Firm Feel, that is the most common box they sell. When I bought
my first box I also bought the fast ratio arms from them 'not cheap' but I love them.

Yes the fast ratio boxes that came in the TA Challengers and AAR Cuda's did come with bump stops in the
box itself. So I asked them how I can get one, they said good luck. There way of dealing with it, is just to
tell people to be carefull when you get near full lock, stop turning the wheel before it gets to full lock, and
you don't want to hear the squeal, because that is when you will have problems.

So anyway I am carefull not to hit full lock, but over the last 5yrs I have done it, and I have never had any
problems at all. I am sure you have seen those people that hit the full lock, and hold it there while the
car is squealing away ' yikes ' makes me cringe thinking of that noise.

Dan

[Mike DC]

 
That noise is the overload valve in the power steering setup letting the pressure off.  It happens any time you push the steering to full lock, regardless of whether the steering is being halted by the factory method or whether a tire is hitting the frame.  So it's nothing to lose sleep over.