What is the best carb for me?

[hewi]

G'day.

I own a 69 charger with a 383 4BBL in her. Not sure on the year of the motor. 727 auto tranny.
Motor looks pretty standard - no mods etc...

Was running with a 600 holley but this stuffed out so am in the market for a new carb.
What would you guys recommend? DP or VS? What size? Brand? No choke, manual or electric?

Is a 600 a little too small? Not too bothered about fuel consumption, more after one that will give the best performance.

Thanks for any help

Bruce (Hewi)

[Plumcrazy]

I'd put an Edelbrock 1806 on it.

[mikepmcs]

it's a 383.  isn't a 650 a little too small???
i thought the formula was CIx2
383 equals about a 750, am i way off on this??  I got a 600 eddy and I know it's too small.  484 MP cam, 383, eddy perf 383 mani, 727, 2500 stall, i'm looking at the 750 mighty demon.  someone set me straight on this please, cause i'm ready to buy a new one.
v/r
Mike

[Ghoste]

I have a similar setup to yours Mike and I run a Holley 750 vacuum secondary.

[mikepmcs]

ok, i could be talked in to a holley 750.  probably cheaper too, but i just heard demon was pretty much plug and play.  will that holley bolt up to my eddy manifold and what kind of extras am i gonna need to make this work.  i think there is another thread that has a shopping list of parts and i'll try to find that in the meantime. 
thanks
v/r
Mike

[Chryco Psycho]

Iwould use a 750 Holley , Demons are Ok too but still prefer the Holley , if you hav no need for the choke the Street Hp 750 is awesome & will gain HP over almost anything else , it is available in both VS & DP , I prefer the DP personally 

[dodge freak]

I love my DP but if that car does not have 3.55 - 4.10 gears or even high yet, the VS might be better for you. You said it was stock so that means no headers or other good stuff to help the motor rev.

I would get a holley hp 750 VS for it, you can live without the choke. If you have the exhaust cross over open in the intake manifold , the motor will idle fine in a few min. even if its cold outside.

[Plumcrazy]

it's a 383.  isn't a 650 a little too small???
i thought the formula was CIx2

Here's a calculator. http://www.csgnetwork.com/cfmcalc.html

[mikepmcs]

hewi,
sorry to keep hijacking.  looks like the answer to your post is right above this one.

I just got off the phone with holley tech support and told him my setup cause I was liking the looks of the Street Avenger 770, and he said that a 750 would be too much.  I have headers and what i wrote above and can't think of any other mods(i didn't build this motor).  I will be putting 3.55 SG in the rear at some point after summer.  

the tech said i should buy an SA 670. His question was what RPM will I be running it to and I told him around six maybe(wasn't thinking that would be different when my 3.55 is in) I'm thinking he based his decision on that.  I just want something that is gonna git when i want it to.  I'm still with you guys on the 750 or now the SA 770 but what kind of problems will i run in to if any.  It seems like you guys like em pretty well so I'm more apt to take ya'lls advice over any one else's.

oh yeah the debate between double pumper and vac sec too.  I have a very low vac motor due to the cam(mopar 284/284, Lift .484/.484), i'm at 11hg steady at idle but jumps to over 20 when i rack it. is that gonna work ok.
and will it be ok on my eddy perf intake or should i get another one of those too.  

I will in the distant future be putting in either the engle k56 or the one firefighter (ron) always suggests.i just can't think of that one right now.

thanks for your patience and putting up with my ignorance.
v/r
Mike

[Ghoste]

There are a couple differences right there then between yours and mine Mike.  I have a Street Dominator intake and 4:10 gears.  Moves my powerband up a little.

[dodge freak]

The DP carb will bog down if you floor it in the wrong gear. EX. you are going 30 mph and its in second gear, you might not want to go to first but in second with a 3.55 it might not need the secondaries till 45 mph or so. With a 4.1 gear even if you are going a bit to slow, the rpms will climb up fast. A VS carb is more flexible if its to big, but a DP at high rpm's will hit harder.

Its your call-how you drive and how the roads are. I live right by the 70 mph zone freeways and 3 or 4 lane roads. I have a 318 hp with a 3.91 gear and a trans with 2.74 first gear, so my holley hp 750 DP works good. I have  a bog problem at 30 if I use 2nd and floor it but at 40 mph its great. At 60 in 3rd same thing but 65-70 and higher its great again. Never use a VS carb, but I have disconnected the secondaries and drove it. Its fun to floor it at 25 mph in second gear but at 35 its out of carb. Maybe I get a VS one day, The older I get the slower I drive.

I think with a 3.55 gear in a 3700 lbs Charger you would be happer with a VS carb, if it was a 3000 lbs Duster with a 3.55 I say DP , its hard to say, but the VS will give you more power at low RPM's and you would lose a Little at high RPM'S. If the secondaries are tuned right it won't be much-15 -20 horses I am guessing.

[mikepmcs]

alright, so more than 1 model of 750.  i'm guessing the 4160 is the way to go for my application. take a look.
v/r
Mike

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D0%2D80508S&N=400178+4294919007+115&autoview=sku

[dodge freak]

Nah, thats just the most used. I think the Holley hp are much better. Nothing wrong about having a metering block in back, not that hard to tune. It have a different metering idle circuit in the block, gives a better idle for hot motors. That one you are looking at is for smog motors. Those hp are not cheap, but you are getting the best.

I notice on e-bay its hard to find VS holley hp's, a few DP but only those cheap VS they have. If thats all that you want get a used on from e-bay, there is a bunch to pick from. Be careful on e-bay lots say they have a hp but they are not, just has a few parts.

[mikepmcs]

no, i want the right one.  HP... ok i'll go look for that from summit.  Any suggestions on the manifold.  will my eddy perf manifold be ok or do i need a better one to get the most out of this carb?
thanks everyone so far, you guys are awesome.

v/r
Mike

[mikepmcs]

ok one more try on saving a little cash.  what about this carb? SA770 elec choke and vac secondary

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D0%2D80770&N=115&autoview=sku


these are the only 2 HP's that are vac sec and they look the same to me.  please say the 500$ one is ok.  but don't forget the 770 above too.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D0%2D82750&N=115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D0%2D80529%2D1&N=115&autoview=sku

v/r
Mike

[dodge freak]

Yeah the $500 one is fine, wow that is alot. The $379.00 one looks good too, but for $120 more I get the HP.

On your intake, I am not sure. Yes they make better ones, do you need it ? I would just get the carb and the gears, then see how you like it. Heck with that cam your motor will love the HP carb. All you might need is a better spark box, I like MSD 7 al, but Crane and others make digital box's that some claim are great. When I changed to the msd 7al my motor will idle in gear cold even if it was not run for days. It also seems to help when I get on it, before if I punch it too fast  from a dead stop it bog a little now it just goes . I would upgrade your spark and keep the intake for right now.

[mikepmcs]

ok thanks, i'm on it.  MSD7 spark box and the 750, keep the intake.  this is gonna hurt but i'm ordering it tomorrow. 

wait is this the right ignition box
MSD 7 AL 2 Ignition Box $350.00

or the MSD 7 AL 3 Ignition Box $620.00

that might have to wait, that's a ton of money for me right now.
thanks a ton for the help
v/r
Mike

[dodge freak]

The 7 al 2 is fine , the 7 al 3 is for drag racing, you don't need it. I have hear people have problems with it anyways. Now msd has the 7al+plus box for $570 or so, its too much, why they messed around I don't know, they had the 8 and 7 al 3. Anyways, when I called Summitt last year the sales guy was like no-no it burn up on the street, I  called msd they said with the right coil 7251 or 7261 it run all day just fine, its the 7 digital boxes you can't run on the street. Called Summitt again, was told no-no again, I told him what msd tech said, he put me on hold for 5 min. and said well they said it be ok, but I think you should get the 6 al. Thats what I had for 8 years, I wanted a new box and something better. Well I am very happy I got it, seems like my motor runs great everyday, not some days are better than others. Some guy on e-bay has some new 7al box's that have Mopar on it, hes got them at $249 + $15 to ship. I HAVE NO IDEA how they are, It sounds to good to be true, but his feedback is good. I buy my stuff from Summitt, only a manifold or hard to get part I get on e-bay, but just though I say something.

You can't have too much spark, with more and more gas having ethanol in it you need a strong spark, otherwise you just think its something else.

[mikepmcs]

thank you

i'll buy new from summit.

v/r
Mike

[dodge freak]

You are right its a ton of money, I was so worry I was throwing my money away, everybody kept saying the 6 al is all you need. Maybe, but like I said now it idle cold in gear, rough but does not stall. So I am happy, I paid more than $350-it was $375 I think, and I got the 7251 coil this spring, you need good wires too. Its a pain, and with gas $3 and going higher yet it makes me so happy I have what I do. Not sure if I do it all over again, but its a blast to drive.

They way I see it, if you are going to spend $379 for a carb or $250 for a spark box, you should just pay a liitle more and get the better stuff. Did not always think that way, but I leaned the hard way.

[Mike DC]

 
With new carbs & ignition parts, the weaker stuff ususally costs 2/3 as much as the good stuff.  Might as well get the good stuff. 

Besides, do you wanna spend $1000 on some high-end coated headers or aluminum cylinder heads or something, and then piss away the extra 40 hp on a bad carb setup? 

 

[mikepmcs]

Well, I did it.
Just got back from the emergency room.
Here's the summit slip.  I just hope I notice a difference from what I have on there now.
I'm pretty sure i got all the right stuff. Let me know if I left something out.  My wires are brand new accel but i need to make sure they aren't sold core.

Part #  Item  Box  Status  Price  Qty  Price
 
HLY-0-82750  CARBURETOR    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $499.95  1  $499.95
 
HLY-20-36  THROTTLE/CRUISE STUD GM    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $17.39  1  $17.39
 
HLY-20-7  LEVER EXT    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $6.88  1  $6.88

  MSD-7220  IGN SYSTEM 7AL-2 RACE V8 ONLY    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $380.88  1  $380.88
 
MSD-8251  COIL HVC PRO POWER    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $118.88  1  $118.88
 
SUM-800115  GAUGE FUEL PRES LIQUID FILL 15    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $16.95  1  $16.95
 
SUM-G1710  PRESSURE FITTING    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $5.88  1  $5.88
 
SUM-G3100  9-1/4" CHROME FUEL LINE    Ready to Ship on 07/06/06  $15.95  1  $15.95

Thanks for the help so far fellas. 
v/r
Mike

[dodge freak]

If you don't notice a difference with all that, you need to see a doctor. On your spark plugs MSD saids to gap them .050-.060. Thats too much , Smokey Yunick in his book Power Secrets claims motors make no more power after .040 and all a bigger gap than that just increases resistance and encourage misfire and crossfire. So I run .038 , I am not going to be changing plugs every month. You Might Have Wanted a New Coil Wire, thats all I can think of, the msd wire fits the coil better and it carrys all that power, Change it every year or 6 months if you drive it year round. And rev Chips, they give you 7000, 8000 rpms , they used to give a 6000, but no more so you might want that its nice to have, Auto Zone might sell them I think.

Was thinking about that VS carb, you know IF you ever want to change it to a DP all you would need is a different base plate and main body and a rear fuel bowl ,Holley sells all brand new. Yeah it be like $300 but you might find all or most on e-bay. Thats a great carb you have and even before you change to 3.55 it work great. after you put in 3.55 you might want to change the spring to a lighter one. You want the lightest spring with no bog.

When I hook my MSD box I had the pick up coil wires out of the dist. backwards, it idle ok but had no power, felt like I was towing a boat. I switch them and its been  great ever since. MSD tech guys are ok, they try to sell you stuff but then they do get it right. I had a hot missfire a month ago, MSD was not much help, I change the pick up coil, the  other coil, cap , rotor--It was a spark plug wire, mine were 6 months old but a boot touch the header and spilt. The MSd 7 was so strong it missed fire when hot but my old 6 unit did not. MSD thought my 7 box went out, but no I found the bad wire after I got my box back. MSD did send me 2 brand new wires for free, I ask for 1 so that was nice. I hope everything goes smooth for you, if not we be here, and so will Holley and MSD tech.  Those rubber mounts for the coil and box are a pain, I took a block of wood and some rubber washers for the box and coil to sit on, the box I have in front where the vapor can went, and the coil up by the dist. Home depot has all that, its up to you, maybe you can get those mounts to work, they think you are going to pull you whole car apart, no thank you.

I hope you love your new stuff as much as I love mine--heck I have been busy and did not drive my car for a week, it started up fine and ran great again. Did see a little blue smoke when it first fire, but MSD unit took care of that, no stalling or misses. Those 4 corner idle screws take time to set, but you get it right.  OH I just look , carb has 2 idle screws yeah you got a perfect street carb.Good Luck and have fun now.

PS I am a OZZY freak as well as a Dodge, other bands are good but Ozzy always has and always will be the "best". I have a kick butt stereo in my car and Live at Budokan is my favor's cd on the road.

[mikepmcs]

makes sense then, i'm an OZZY freak too!
thanks, i'll keep this post handy to read again when I get the stuff probably monday.
thanks again
v/r
Mike

[dodge freak]

Summit is great, log on to their web site and have your id # or order # and phone # it tell you who is shipping it and then you can go there and see what day you get it. They might send it fed. and you get it Sat.