Thank goodness for this site! Throttle/kickdown linkage questions

[defiance]

First off, thank goodness for this site.  My charger has a crappy welded together rod thing in place of the kickdown linkage; when the throttle is opened, it kinda wiggles the transmission thingy a bit - not in a consistent manner, even.  So, obviously not working.  I knew it wasn't working in the first place, but had figured, "Eh, no biggie, I'll deal until I get around to that" - now I'm reading and several people have stated that the linkage is necessary for the life of your transmission... Ok, I think maybe I need to bump that up just a tiny bit on my priority list!

So, I'm looking around... and keep in mind I don't have any desire to keep my car stock, per se, so when I see that the stock setup sells for the 250-300 range (72, 440, 4bbl, 727), and a mancini kit http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/kiccabkit1.html for less than half that (since I'm using a holley efi throttle body and performer manifold, I'd get the more expensive 'universal' type of kit), the choice seems obvious to me.  Is there anything I should know, as far as reasons I should go with a more stock setup, or am I right to assume that the stock setups are mostly for people who want to keep cars stock for restoration or value reasons, and the mancini one will offer better performance anyway?

In any case, 120, 300, or whatever I end up spending, it's much better than the bill would be for a new transmission... and even then, I'd still need to get the kickdown fixed, so I'm just glad to have avoided at least one problem before it actually happened

In any case, it's all coming together!  The car now starts almost instantly at any temp, is timed to 14* initial, 32* max at 3000 rpm, revs nearly instantly (absolutely no hesitation), and never passes 185* even at idle - so all my previous problems are gone!  It's starting to seem like every time I nail down one set of problems, another set shows up... but I keep telling myself, eventually I'm going to have every single system in the entire car replaced or repaired, and unlessI do a crappy job, it's GOT to be good then!!

[Ghoste]

If you aren't worried about staying with a stock setup, you might also want to consider going with one of the cable types similar to the Lokar unit.

[original72]

let me look as i might have a extra kickdown linkage for a 3rd gen auto laying around somewhere.... you helped me out with all the questions i had for fuel injection so its the least i can do.... and it should work as long as you are using the original bracket that bolts to the intake and holds the throttle cable...

Bill

[defiance]

Thanks!  I think I'm going to go with the mancini, though - from what I read, it actually is just a lokar, repackaged and rebranded with better instructions (which seems to be a consistent complaint with the lokar, brief instructions  ).  Since I don't have a single component of the stock carb or intake, the cable will probably end up being much simpler... but I really appreciate the offer for the stock one! 

Did you end up injecting yours, or no?  There are still some aspects of mine I'm tinkering around with - idle control and timing, mostly; I switched timing back to mechanical advance for now until I get it 100%, and I have to idle it up into the 1200 range to get it so it doesn't die sometimes when I turn on a/c - I plan on putting in an idle air controller in a few weeks (got a ford one sitting here waiting for me to get time), and I'll switch timing back to ECU control when everything else is completely done... but I'd be interested in hearing what kind of revelations you stumbled across!

Anyway, thanks again!

[Ghoste]

I have the Mancini edition Lokar on mine and in spite of a few misgivings at first as far as cost and the Chevy-like appearance, I don't regret it all now.  It's a slick setup.

[mikepmcs]

wow that mancini deal looks pretty cool.  wouldn't mind seeing some close up pics of the set up when it's done on a big block. 
v/r
Mike

[defiance]

Ok - ordered - I should have it in Thursday and will take pics as I go.

[defiance]

Well, I got it on there tonight, and it seems to be a pretty good deal... Only, I had to do some things different because of the oddities on my car...  I'm not sure the pics will do any good, I'll upload them later, though.  Basically, my camera stinks, most of the stuff was done not according to the instructions, and some of the areas I simply couldn't get a view of to get pics.

Anyway, it's a pretty easy install.  The top portion is VERY easy, the only difficult portion is installing the bracket on the transmission to hold the end of the cable sleeve.  The instructions call for installing the bracket and then snapping in the cable, but I disagree - there's a transmission coolant line running right above the bracket, and it makes it VERY difficult to get the cable in while it's on the tranny.  It's not too difficult to get the bracket in place with the cable already in it, though.
The instructions, btw, were excellent - clear pics of all different carburetor options and exactly which pieces to use for them, good descriptions, etc.

Anyway, pics later, but they'll probably be useless

[mikepmcs]

 

[defiance]

Ok -
got 12 pics worth looking at, so 3 posts..

Pic 1 - to start with, here's the kit as it's packed.  Note the illustrated instructions. 

Pic 2 - My throttle cable was rigged like crap anyway, so I got the throttle kit too.  It's simple, but neat.

Pic 3 - here's my throttle body to start with.  It has the same linkage style as aftermarket holley carbs, according to the pics.

Pic 4 - Throttle bracket on. 

[defiance]

pic 5 - Ok.  So, that's fun.  Step 1 of the instructions wouldn't work for me.  The bracket I'm supposed to install on the linkage won't fit because of my fuel rail.  Obviously not the manufacturer's fault.

pic 6 - GARR!  now, the bracket to hold the cable won't fit either, once again, because of the friggin' fuel rail.  Bah.

pic 7 - Ok, got them both to work by moving the linkage cable to on top instead of underhung.  Sits perfectly on top of the fuel rail now.  Skipped the bracket entirely, since the bolt with the little 'ball' to snap the linkage cable on simply screwed into the linkage fine, and I used a bolt and a set of nuts (doubled so I could tighten them without tightening them on the cable) for the throttle.  I did have to angle the bracket a bit funny, but once again, none of this could have possibly been anticipated by the mfg.

pic 8 - Finally, the cable end snapped onto the linkage, and it worked!  Only, it rubbed the fuel rail right at the end of the travel... grr... Ok, fine, I just shaved the housing and it worked.  It wasn't a critical area or anything, so I don't anticipate any trouble there.

[defiance]

pic 9 - Finally all the up-side together.  View from the front

pic 10 - Finally all the up-side together.  View from the side

pic 11 - Now starting on the bottom.  Here's the lever installed.  Had to jack up the car and shoot this one through the wheel well to see it at all!

pic 12 - Here's the same with the return spring installed.

[defiance]

Unfortunately, the rest of the pics are unintelligible blobs, so no pics of the bracket I was talking about earlier.  That's pretty much the only thing that didn't turn out, though, the rest of the setup is shown.

Now for another question...  With this kit, there's no adjustment for the low end... As a result, it has the lever pulled a VERY small amount at all times.  The top part is fully adjustable, so I can adjust how far it pulls it at the max, but the minimum is hard-set to be slightly pulled.  Is that going to hurt anything?  I would think it would be ok, right?