Opinions needed on 69 Charger RT price

[69chargerfanatic]

Hi guys, I'm new to the site and have found it incredibly useful. I've been looking for a 69 Charger for quite some time and I've found a private seller selling one in NJ. The VIN starts with: XS29L so it is a true R/T 440 4bbl car. However, there is no fender tag present and the current engine is a non-numbers matching 440 with 6pk. Besides those issues, the car is in exceptional shape. I attached a few pics of the car. The guy is asking $30,000. Does that price sound right? These cars are very hard to find in nice shape on the east coast around here. From what I've seen sell on ebay, I believe that this is a fair price for the car, however I may be wrong and I'm looking to you the gurus to help guide me. I'm going to see the car in a few days and I'll get the engine code and verify the VIN on the trunk lip matches the VIN on the dash.

[mikepmcs]

private seller? dealer? escrow?...... where is the car located?..... do you know the seller? got the rest of the vin?
lots of scams going on and i can't see the pics at work.  if you are going to see it, that's a good thing, i hope it's there and it's real.

[69chargerfanatic]

private seller? dealer? escrow?...... where is the car located?..... do you know the seller? got the rest of the vin?
lots of scams going on and i can't see the pics at work.  if you are going to see it, that's a good thing, i hope it's there and it's real.

private seller in NJ. If its real, is that a good price for a non numbers matching?

[mikepmcs]

let me get home so I can view the pictures you put up.  would i pay that for a clean non numbers matching r/t.  well, if i had the money and it was everything as described in darn good condition, probably. but that's me. i'm guessing NOM r/t's can get up in the 60's these days.  i need to see the pics and i'd be going over it with a fine tooth comb and a magnet.  i do think they are worth it though. 
Where did the fender tag go?
Is this car a restore or original(besides the motor of course)
I'm sure more people on this site, much smarter than i will have some more insight on this, trav, mikedc,grouse, troy,chris, firefighter, etc........ in the meantime, check out the nada classic car page.  if you can't find it, i'll send the link when i get home.
v/r
Mike

[mikepmcs]

found the link

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&c=11&m=1052&d=2450&y=1969&s=69524&da=-1

now this probably for a numbers car but at least you can have an idea. and i didn't select any options like a/c or whatever which usually add around 10% to the price.  just a guide though.
v/r
Mike

[dodgecharger-fan]

The lower door panels inside are from a 70 Charger, too.
and the inside of the trunk is not body color.

I'm not saying it's a bad car, but when I see some things that are obviously changed out, I feel that the car needs a very thorough going over to determine the price.

At the same time, if these things don't matter to you and the work is well done and won't need your time and money to "correct," then don't worry about them. Just check other things over that much more carefully to be sure there are no other concerns.

I don't know. Personally, I think that a bit high for what the car is missing - especially the fender tag and the couple of red flags.
Those things would bother ME and I wold want them corrected. So, I'd have to factor the cost of doing that into the equation.

And, as it has been said many times, the real price is determined by what the seller wants and what the buyer is willing to give.

[Wakko]

Check the passenger side for collision damage.  Note the gap between the side of the grille and the fender vs. the same gap on the driver's side.  Could be just a fender alignment issue, could be worse than that. 

For 32k I would expect a little more correctness than what this car has, but that's really up to you as the purchaser.  Door panels are only a couple hundred bucks.  The six pack setup is expensive in it of itself and difficult to tune for the novice, so that's a plus (if it's runnin' right).  If you can go over the car with a magnet and get a really clear look at the underside to find it primo, I don't think 30k is too far outside.  If it has mud in the quarters or the base of the rear window, I'd negotiate it down based on that and the NOM engine.  Car is quite beautiful and I'd be proud to drive it. 

[mikepmcs]

 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

32k should at least include a repro washer bottle
IMHO it would need a few $k to get it going in the right direction
Looks like a Chevy guy owned it (trunk splatter paint)

PM me the rest of the VIN and Ill see if I have it in the registry for any other info on the car.

[69chargerfanatic]

32k should at least include a repro washer bottle
IMHO it would need a few $k to get it going in the right direction
Looks like a Chevy guy owned it (trunk splatter paint)

PM me the rest of the VIN and Ill see if I have it in the registry for any other info on the car.

PM'd you. What color is the trunk supposed to be? body color?

[mikepmcs]

also look at the grill itself on the pass side, something ain't right, right under the hood.  still a nice car though!!!
i'm with wakko on this, something must have happened to the pass side of this vehicle cause stuff is out of line, but hopefully it's just a bad camera shot!
let us know and take pics when you see it and post em up so we can scrutinize more
v/r
Mike

[69chargerfanatic]

also look at the grill itself on the pass side, something ain't right, right under the hood.  still a nice car though!!!
i'm with wakko on this, something must have happened to the pass side of this vehicle cause stuff is out of line, but hopefully it's just a bad camera shot!
let us know and take pics when you see it and post em up so we can scrutinize more
v/r
Mike

Could just the grill be messed up? The body lines of the hood and fender seem consistent on the driver and pass side.

[DanishDude]

The more I look at it, the more it looks to my eyes like the whole passenger side of the front has been 'lifted' a bit, frame and all. It seems to be a fair bit less than an inch, but noticeable once you see it. The front seems to curve up to the left in both frontal shots, and they were takes from slightly different viewpoints. Notice reflections of the sky in the fenders.

This could be a case of uneven distortion in the camera lens, but the shot of the rear doesn't appear to suffer from it.

Wonder what the car would look like if photographed on a perfectly flat and level surface... ? And how it drives. 

Edit: Have a closer look at the seventh photograph in the first set, the first one of the front seen full on.

If you move your head very close to your screen/monitor and look horizontally across the lines of the grille, you can see that the bottom passenger and both driver sides curve out from the grille (up/down), while the top passenger side bends slightly down. Since the last line mentioned runs nearly horizontally in the middle of the photo, out from the center, it would be an unusual kind of lens distortion, if that is what it is.

I'd officially declare that a 'Hmm...?'. 

Edit Mk. II: Second photo, second group; headlight doors closed. The left/passenger side headlight door gapes more at the bottom than at the top. I assume they aren't supposed to do that? Since the gap between the front top of the fenders and the grille appears to have the same size in both sides, it seems the frame might be out of whack. No?

Frank.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Trunk should be body color.  I agree the market is crazy.  There seems to be no end in sight.

Check the car over throughly.  It does look like a nice car for the money (now a days)

Good luck

PSSS----welcome to the site   and if you get the car, properly register it in the registry.  If not pass the registry info on to the owner (currently dont have it in the reg)

[Wakko]

[Ghoste]

But it is all nice and shiny so if you don't buy it, somebody will.

[4402tuff4u]

Looks pretty clean from the photos. Check the power train too. Just remember, if you were to restore a Charger, you would be spending that kind of cash! If you don't buy it, someone with less experience/knowledge about these Charger's and with plenty of money will buy it!   

[dodge freak]

I guess the only thing to worry about beside rust is if it was in a major accident in the past.  Maybe thats why the fender and bumper don't line up right. If the frame got bent bad it might not drive right down the road at high speed. If somebody wants it fine, but I would not want a car that was in a major wreck.

[dodgecharger-fan]

I guess as a follow up to my first post, I should say that I wouldn't let this stuff deter you from buying the car, it IS a nice car, but knowing all of this up front will help you determine your end cost and give you some points to negotiate with.

If I had the money and the room, a car in that shape with those issues wouldn't be dismissed. I'd look at it as an opportunity to get another nice Charger at a decent price(with a lot less work required compared to my current project.  )


Best of luck.

[69chargerfanatic]

well thanks for all the input guys. you have really helped me in preparing to see the car. It is alot of money and I will see if it is worth the 32k. I'll go check it out and see how it drives. I've never driven a charger before but have driven many chevelles, 442's, corvettes of the same era.

[mikepmcs]

well thanks for all the input guys. you have really helped me in preparing to see the car. It is alot of money and I will see if it is worth the 32k. I'll go check it out and see how it drives. I've never driven a charger before but have driven many chevelles, 442's, corvettes of the same era.

You are defnitely in for a treat then!
Looks like it has a disc brake mod too by looking at the booster/master cylinder.  That's a great thing!!!
It looks real straight and like I said earlier as long as the undercarriage is just as tight(no rot) and I had the money, i'd buy it.
good luck.
v/r
Mike

[69chargerfanatic]

Is this where I'll find the last 6 digits of the VIN on the trunk??

[mikepmcs]

sorry i'm hijacking for a sec.  that last picture where you can see the trunk seal.  is that the correct way the seal goes in? perfect timing cause i was just about to post a new thread.  anyone?? this is for my own that i'm changing.  last one was a hack job.
thanks
v/r
Mike

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

sorry i'm hijacking for a sec. that last picture where you can see the trunk seal. is that the correct way the seal goes in? perfect timing cause i was just about to post a new thread. anyone?? this is for my own that i'm changing. last one was a hack job.
thanks
v/r
Mike

Nope its installed wrong......(like I said before a Chevy guy resto attempt! )

The small "ridge" should go towards the trunk opening...see pic.

Also to get extra super correcto-mundo bonus points, offset the seam to one side of the trunk....close to the edge of one of the taillights.....dont use my pic as an example of that though....I didnt get the bonus points

[mikepmcs]

thanks chris, i'll do that.  i'm installing mine tomorrow along with my new deck lid, sweet!!!
back to our regularly scheduled program.
v/r
Mike

[BigBlockSam]

first i gotta say, these charger board guys are on the money. you guys see things i would never spot 

that one of the reasons this is the best automotive site on the web, the people here are great. theres acouple of porn sites i like too. 

i think the price is a little high. only cause there's no fender tag. that means a lot to  alot of people. does it come with a build sheet. then you can have a fender tag made. Rene

[69chargerfanatic]

I went to look at the car.

The good:  The steering and braking of the car are fine. interior is in very nice shape with the exception of a cracked dash, console and wrong door panels. Seats are in great shape but the foam is shot. The exterior of the car is VERY straight with very little bondo All chrome is in very good shape. The underside is undercoated and in good shape.

The bad: Cracked dash and console. seat foam is shot. The suspension is very clunky and drives like it. All the bushings underneath look shot. The gap on the grill is bad and looking underneath reveals a bent trailing arm. Maybe in an accident to the passenger side. This is most concerning. The six pack runs would barely idle. The exhaust is VERY loud. The VIN on the dash looks brand new and I was unable to locate the VIN on the trunk lid area. I don't know what year 440 it is becuase the numbers to the right of the water pump on the flat spot seem to be removed. In terms of the body, the guy had the car covered all winter in his driveway and someone apparently backed into the passenger side fender! Now there is a dent in the car! Also the car cover made the paint have little bubbles all over the car! It isnt bad but now def needs a repaint! Also the heater doesnt work, it needs a relay or something(I have no idea) and the A/C components under the hood are missing.

Without documentation to being a true R/T 440 I'm hesitant to even consider this. This could have been a 318 car and swapped  VINS with a wrecked RT a long time ago. It is truly a project car. The guy did drop the price to $25k because of the paint/fender. I still dont think this is a deal. What do you all think?

Check out all the pics on my website to see the damage and I wanted to know if the quarter panels are supposed to have the vertical (filler type) lines in them:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v88/mr2fanatic/charger/






Is the firewall supposed to be wavy like this? especially above the curved arc above the heater hoses

[dodge freak]

That VIN is fishy , might be a 318 car or it might have even be stolen. Thats the main reason I would pass, be careful on very loud cars, motor might have a knock and you won't hear it. Price does sound good , but with no VIN or at least thats how it sounds I would forget it . Somebody removed the VIN from the trunk, WHY would they ? Somebody's hiding something.

[BigBlockSam]

hey
sorry it wasn't as good as you thought, i would walk away, thats alot of money. you can find a better one out there for that much money. i don't like that you can't find any other #'s, just the vin and no fender tag or buildsheet.  
 the six pack not running well could be just cleaning and adjustments or could be something worse. when i bought my charger r/t with the six pack.  it was running real bad. i thought it would be nothing to fix. i was wrong it had burnt valves. it's your money, so do what makes you happy. Rene

[mikepmcs]

for that kind of $lingus, I think after your thorough description and the unknowns, I would not buy it.  You'll find one and may have to pay a little more but I'd wait til you get what you want with at least all the questions answered.  Something don't feel right and you know what they say..."when there's doubt, there is no doubt!"
v/r
Mike

[69chargerfanatic]

I found out that it was originally owned by BK on moparstyle.com

Here is a link: http://www.daveschultz.com/palbum/showgallery.php?cat=846

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I found out that it was originally owned by BK on moparstyle.com

Here is a link: http://www.daveschultz.com/palbum/showgallery.php?cat=846

I knew that car looked familiar......couldnt put my finger on it.....

By the looks of that suspension shot, the car might have originally been green.

The wavyness on the cowl area is normal.....that car is going to need a minimum of 10k to correct some of the wrongs.....

I see he believes in the oil bath method of controlling floor board rot......

32k and you dont even get a Mopar battery?  double

[69chargerfanatic]

UPDATE:

I purchased the car.

I was going to stay away from the car until I had my body guy/mechanic come over and look at the car. The entire car is very  solid. Original quarters and extremely nice...except for the small sent on the passenger fender. The passenger fender has been tagged a couple times resulting in the misaligned grill in that area. I'm going to get that fixed this fall. The car has never been in a major accident. I have removed the enitre interior carpet and the floors are immaculate. There is 1 patch panel on the drivers side floor pan. The suspensions rubber bushings are all shot and dry rotted resulting in a clunking sound. The bent trailing arm(strut rod?) is just bent, not the frame. possibly from a floor jack or running something over.

In terms of the engine. The casting # says its a 73-78 440 block, I have no idea why its stamped something else on the pad. I located the VIN on the trunk lip and IT MATCHES the title and dash board vin. So it is a real R/T. Apparently when they restored the dash they sprayed the satin black paint right over the VIN plate. It still has the rosette rivets.

I got it for under his asking price of 25k and for that price I could get a nice 318 or 383 car. I would rather have the R/T that needs a little work.

[BigBlockSam]

good luck with your new toy. Rene

[Iguana Man]

Good luck on the restoration 69CF. I miss her more than you can imagine.

Let us know how the drivetrain matches up too, I hope it matches the rest and send me a pic of that trunk vin#...please.

I mean it man, I wish you nothing but the best, and please keep in touch.

Scott-the-very-sad-seller.

[Wakko]

It's definitely a nice car, you did AOK!   Now drive it!! 

[Iguana Man]

I hope 69CF doesn't mind, but he told me the damn motor IS from a 73'. I think from a New Yorker, hot cam and rebuilt heads.

As he said....what a dissapointment. The only reason I'm posting this is I want to be clear that I had NO idea. In fact, I'm probably as or more pissed about this than he, since I paid a boatload more for the car than I should have.

Sorry 69CF, I mean that....

Scott

(PS...word to the wise...do your homework and see the car before buying. I wish I had instead of using blind faith  )