US monitoring bank transfers and phone calls

[dodge freak]

Good old Bush is having a fit that the papers reported on his secret program of spying on bank records. Is this the same guy who talks about freedom? What is he afraid of, that people might see though his talk. This guy is not about freedom no he's all for a police state in which the police and government can do what ever they feel like. All this talk about freedom though out the world is all talk. He knows if the truth gets out him and his buddys will be thrown out of office. First it was the phones , now its bank records, what else are they doing. The good old FBI is monitoring this site to I would not be surprise. Maybe some bad guys are on here also.

[Brock Samson]

Yeah, next they'll be in your bedroom... 




sorry but I couldn't resist...

[derailed]

Maybe some bad guys are on here also.

yeah, in the form of hot raging lesbians dipping each other in honey and licking it off    Sorry I couldnt resist, but yes I totally agree with you on the invasion of privacy and freedom issue.

[dodge freak]

You know I think I am a cool guy, I voted for Kerry and am all for freedom, just in good taste. Just could not believe what I seen Sunday, Maybe after reading the Toronto star paper and watching WGN news it was too much for me. When I go out of town I always try to help the homeless bums too, seems like I never have any change left once I get back to my hotel room.

[2Gunz]

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

- Benjamin Franklin

[Telvis]

I have no problem with them monitoring my phone calls, my bank accounts and any other transactions I make. I have nothing to hide. If it keeps my family safe I am all for it. If You have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. The IRS keeps track of our money anyway.  I say keep up the good work!

[dodge freak]

But is it for safety or is it being used so the government can pick and choose who they want to jail ? We have a out spoken lawyer in Michigan  MR Frager- not sure if its spell right-said he was going to run for office this Nov. One week later the FBI raided his law office , said they were looking for campane wrong doing. That was 6 months ago-still no charges but Mr. Farger is not on TV anymore bad mounthing the people in office. Its just a cover up this keep the USA safe, all the government is doing is looking at the people they don't like and try to get them thrown in jail, not trying to keep us safe. Look over 1000 people died last August when Bushie was on his month long vacation, and everybody knew for 3 or 4 days a storm was coming on-did the government keep those people safe? NO , it was 100 years ago since the last time that many people died in a storm. I could go on but whats the point. If you want to keep up to date how bush is screwing us go to buzzflash.com, those guys are right on top of this.

[Old Moparz]

The USA was bought & sold long before any of us were born, so none of this telephone & bank acct. spy crap means anything. Voting is another non issue since the person in office is predetermined before the election. The only thing you can do to avoid what your afraid of is to hide all your money in the lining of your underwear & throw your E-Z pass out the window so they can't keep tabs on you. So what if you get through the toll plaza a little slower? At least nobody can accuse you of harboring the Taliban in your cellar.

[1972Rallye]

But is it for safety or is it being used so the government can pick and choose who they want to jail ? We have a out spoken lawyer in Michigan  MR Frager- not sure if its spell right-said he was going to run for office this Nov. One week later the FBI raided his law office , said they were looking for campane wrong doing. That was 6 months ago-still no charges but Mr. Farger is not on TV anymore bad mounthing the people in office. Its just a cover up this keep the USA safe, all the government is doing is looking at the people they don't like and try to get them thrown in jail, not trying to keep us safe. Look over 1000 people died last August when Bushie was on his month long vacation, and everybody knew for 3 or 4 days a storm was coming on-did the government keep those people safe? NO , it was 100 years ago since the last time that many people died in a storm. I could go on but whats the point. If you want to keep up to date how bush is screwing us go to buzzflash.com, those guys are right on top of this.

Look - Feiger was caught trying to black-mail a prosecutor looking in to illegal campaign contributions.  He's as corrupt as they come... the prosecutor called him on it and leaked the info himself to out Feiger.

The whole "Bush on vacation" silliness has been torn down over and over.  The federal government CAN NOT DO ANYTHING until they are asked by the state government for help/assistance.  The bafoons running things in LA screwed up. They were asked multiple times by the administration, they weren't ready, they fell on their faces and people died.  Anybody who thinks a President (any President) would ignore a national emergency because he is on vacation is blinded by their own agenda...

[Neal_J]

Remember the good old days?....when political discussions were not allowed in Off Topic Discussion.

Raising a topic simply to stir up folks gets real old real fast, dude.

Peace,

Neal

[defiance]

I have no problem with them monitoring my phone calls, my bank accounts and any other transactions I make. I have nothing to hide. If it keeps my family safe I am all for it. If You have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. The IRS keeps track of our money anyway.  I say keep up the good work!

Don't have anything to worry about?  The government disregarding the fourth amendment - then threatening the PROSECUTE the MEDIA for talking about it - another bill of rights freedom being thrown away - that's nothing to worry about???

Read some freaking orwell, people.  This administration's level of doublespeak and undermining of liberties (in the name of liberty!) is terrifying.

[nh_mopar_fan]

I have no problem with them monitoring my phone calls, my bank accounts and any other transactions I make. I have nothing to hide. If it keeps my family safe I am all for it. If You have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. The IRS keeps track of our money anyway.  I say keep up the good work!

Don't have anything to worry about?  The government disregarding the fourth amendment - then threatening the PROSECUTE the MEDIA for talking about it - another bill of rights freedom being thrown away - that's nothing to worry about???

Read some freaking orwell, people.  This administration's level of doublespeak and undermining of liberties (in the name of liberty!) is terrifying.

Orwell?

You have nothing to worry about. Just make sure you don;t take off that tinfoil hat.

[defiance]

So you're ok with the government ignoring the bill of rights in the name of protecting it, I take it?  It's Ok to hear the president say he is protecting your freedoms by pursuing prosecution against reporters who report his illegal and unconstitutional monitoring activities?  How is ANY of that not Orwellian?  A tinfoil hat won't change the fact that the government IS illegally monitoring my phone calls.  Sure, legally speaking I don't have a thing to worry about unless ordering pizza becomes illegal, but I believe in America enough to recognize blatant disregard of the principles our country was founded upon.

[JimShine]

There is stuff going on that hasn't been made public. The government is forcing cellular companies to have all of their clients traceable via  GPS by a certain deadline. The companies are scrambling to get people updated that are not into buying phones every year. I just had my cell company GIVE me a new phone to get my updated. The explaination given to the customer is "If you do not have GPS in your phone, they cannot track you if you dial 911". Yeah, that is a real benefit, but the tool is useable for monitoring location as well.

[nh_mopar_fan]

So you're ok with the government ignoring the bill of rights in the name of protecting it, I take it?  It's Ok to hear the president say he is protecting your freedoms by pursuing prosecution against reporters who report his illegal and unconstitutional monitoring activities?  How is ANY of that not Orwellian?  A tinfoil hat won't change the fact that the government IS illegally monitoring my phone calls.  Sure, legally speaking I don't have a thing to worry about unless ordering pizza becomes illegal, but I believe in America enough to recognize blatant disregard of the principles our country was founded upon.

It's not "illegal" and "Unconstitutional" because Harry Reid says so. That would be for a court to decide. We fighting an enemy that knows no rules. Would you rather go back to those silly days when our intelligence organizations were prohibited from dealing with "bad" people?

How'd that work out?

[Brock Samson]

the phone companys just clarifiyed their contention that all our phone records belong to them...
so they can share... 

BTW:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/25/ING4DJHBDU1.DTL&hw=telephone&sn=049&sc=244

[4402tuff4u]

At times, we are our worst enemy. We decry when the government tries to pass laws that will allow them to monitor phone conversations, faxes, emails, etc...- so what if they listen to my wife complain to her girlfriends that I'm spending too much time in the garage with my Charger - who really cares!!!! Now the government wants to monitor bank transactions, especially the ones overseas in a attempt to find the source and destination on possible monies to be used for attacks to western interests - so what and again, who cares?!!. The SOB's that are milking millions out of paying taxes because the money is being deposited out side in safe haven banks should worry, our drug lords, politicians etc should be the ones up in arms!! Not the poor you and me! This in a way, is already being done - again, so what, and who really cares?!!! Everytime you use your credit card, there is a record on where the card was used, what you bought, where you placed the order or the card was used and most likely where is being delivered!!! You don't think the government knows? Pleeze!

On 911 we learned that we were facing a new and unique new enemy that has no qualms in dying as long as he takes the enemy with them: the more the better - how in the world can you beat an enemy that loves death. My point is, how has your freedom really been or will be affected/diminished by the government listening on phone conversation or tracking bank transactions - All this has been going on for many years!!! The government is just trying to legalize it now so it can be used as legal evidence when they have one of these rats cornered!! This been going on before the NSA agency was established. If you pay your taxes, don't deal in any illegal contraband and don't try to attack this country you have nothing to worry about these new laws. Think about it, if this government was so good in listening to phone coversations and money transactions, we wouldn't have a "Most Wanted" list!  

[Telvis]

At times, we are our worst enemy. We decry when the government tries to pass laws that will allow them to monitor phone conversations, faxes, emails, etc...- so what if they listen to my wife complain to her girlfriends that I'm spending too much time in the garage with my Charger - who really cares!!!! Now the government wants to monitor bank transactions, especially the ones overseas in a attempt to find the source and destination on possible monies to be used for attacks to western interests - so what and again, who cares?!!. The SOB's that are milking millions out of paying taxes because the money is being deposited out side in safe haven banks should worry, our drug lords, politicians etc should be the ones up in arms!! Not the poor you and me! This in a way, is already being done - again, so what, and who really cares?!!! Everytime you use your credit card, there is a record on where the card was used, what you bought, where you placed the order or the card was used and most likely where is being delivered!!! You don't think the government knows? Pleeze!

On 911 we learned that we were facing a new and unique new enemy that has no qualms in dying as long as he takes the enemy with them: the more the better - how in the world can you beat an enemy that loves death. My point is, how has your freedom really been or will be affected/diminished by the government listening on phone conversation or tracking bank transactions - All this has been going on for many years!!! The government is just trying to legalize it now so it can be used as legal evidence when they have one of these rats cornered!! This been going on before the NSA agency was established. If you pay your taxes, don't deal in any illegal contraband and don't try to attack this country you have nothing to worry about these new laws. Think about it, if this government was so good in listening to phone coversations and money transactions, we wouldn't have a "Most Wanted" list! 

Yep..

[defiance]

Man, you really believe that crap, don't you?  I don't care if "Harry Reid" says anything, the constitution strictly forbids unwarranted search, courts have LONG since ruled that phone calls and records fall under that ruling, there's nothing for the courts to clarify *it is unconstitutional*.  Period.  The administration is trying to say that giving them authorization to fight "implicitly" gave them authorization to tap phones...?  I don't care how much you want to believe the bush administration, 2+2 does NOT equal 13, and authorization to fight a war does NOT equal authorization to monitor phone calls of domestic citizens!  Period.  Hell, there is a secret court set up SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of supplying warrants for this sort of thing.  All they had to do was submit the request, and as long as they had a CONSTITUTIONALLY VALID REASON for the monitoring, they would have recieved approval.  The *ONLY* reason they would possibly have for bypassing that court is because they do NOT have constitutionally valid grounds for a warrant.

It doesn't matter how "our enemy" (I'm so tired of hearing that used as an excuse) fights - if we give up the foundations of our country, THEY WIN.

[Blown70]

Man, you really believe that crap, don't you?  I don't care if "Harry Reid" says anything, the constitution strictly forbids unwarranted search, courts have LONG since ruled that phone calls and records fall under that ruling, there's nothing for the courts to clarify *it is unconstitutional*.  Period.  The administration is trying to say that giving them authorization to fight "implicitly" gave them authorization to tap phones...?  I don't care how much you want to believe the bush administration, 2+2 does NOT equal 13, and authorization to fight a war does NOT equal authorization to monitor phone calls of domestic citizens!  Period.  Hell, there is a secret court set up SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of supplying warrants for this sort of thing.  All they had to do was submit the request, and as long as they had a CONSTITUTIONALLY VALID REASON for the monitoring, they would have recieved approval.  The *ONLY* reason they would possibly have for bypassing that court is because they do NOT have constitutionally valid grounds for a warrant.

It doesn't matter how "our enemy" (I'm so tired of hearing that used as an excuse) fights - if we give up the foundations of our country, THEY WIN.

NOW THAT I AGREE WITH STRONGLY.  IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE THEN APPLY FOR A WARRANT YOU WILL GET ONE.    THANK YOU!!!

[4402tuff4u]

Man, you really believe that crap, don't you?  I don't care if "Harry Reid" says anything, the constitution strictly forbids unwarranted search, courts have LONG since ruled that phone calls and records fall under that ruling, there's nothing for the courts to clarify *it is unconstitutional*.  Period.  The administration is trying to say that giving them authorization to fight "implicitly" gave them authorization to tap phones...?  I don't care how much you want to believe the bush administration, 2+2 does NOT equal 13, and authorization to fight a war does NOT equal authorization to monitor phone calls of domestic citizens!  Period.  Hell, there is a secret court set up SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of supplying warrants for this sort of thing.  All they had to do was submit the request, and as long as they had a CONSTITUTIONALLY VALID REASON for the monitoring, they would have received approval.  The *ONLY* reason they would possibly have for bypassing that court is because they do NOT have constitutionally valid grounds for a warrant.

It doesn't matter how "our enemy" (I'm so tired of hearing that used as an excuse) fights - if we give up the foundations of our country, THEY WIN.

Say that to the families that Tim McVeigh destroyed and affected. Ask them if the government had a chance to tap his phone and monitor his actions and had a chance to stop him, who's constitutional rights would have been abused?, Tim or the victims he killed and maimed  - you tell me?

Same with the attack on the first attempt and last final accomplishment on the towers - again ask the victims and see what constitutional rights mean to them. Constitutional rights do not mean much to a family that lost their father or any family member and the thought/sense that the government could possibly have prevented the attacks - that small possibility that is stuck in their minds is their daily hell - the what if the government done this or that!!

Believe me, I don't trust the government or politicians at all with these new laws to monitor calls and other source of communication or even the reason for going to war or being at war, but my point is that if it will prevent another massive attack as I personally witnessed on September 11, then I'm willing to let the government listen to my phone calls and monitor my finances that they already do in the first place(IRS). My everyday life will not change by them listening in. 

[derailed]

It doesn't matter how "our enemy" (I'm so tired of hearing that used as an excuse) fights - if we give up the foundations of our country, THEY WIN.

[Blown70]

Man, you really believe that crap, don't you?  I don't care if "Harry Reid" says anything, the constitution strictly forbids unwarranted search, courts have LONG since ruled that phone calls and records fall under that ruling, there's nothing for the courts to clarify *it is unconstitutional*.  Period.  The administration is trying to say that giving them authorization to fight "implicitly" gave them authorization to tap phones...?  I don't care how much you want to believe the bush administration, 2+2 does NOT equal 13, and authorization to fight a war does NOT equal authorization to monitor phone calls of domestic citizens!  Period.  Hell, there is a secret court set up SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of supplying warrants for this sort of thing.  All they had to do was submit the request, and as long as they had a CONSTITUTIONALLY VALID REASON for the monitoring, they would have received approval.  The *ONLY* reason they would possibly have for bypassing that court is because they do NOT have constitutionally valid grounds for a warrant.

It doesn't matter how "our enemy" (I'm so tired of hearing that used as an excuse) fights - if we give up the foundations of our country, THEY WIN.

Say that to the families that Tim McVeigh destroyed and affected. Ask them if the government had a chance to tap his phone and monitor his actions and had a chance to stop him, who's constitutional rights would have been abused?, Tim or the victims he killed and maimed  - you tell me?

Same with the attack on the first attempt and last final accomplishment on the towers - again ask the victims and see what constitutional rights mean to them. Constitutional rights do not mean much to a family that lost their father or any family member and the thought/sense that the government could possibly have prevented the attacks - that small possibility that is stuck in their minds is their daily hell - the what if the government done this or that!!

Believe me, I don't trust the government or politicians at all with these new laws to monitor calls and other source of communication or even the reason for going to war or being at war, but my point is that if it will prevent another massive attack as I personally witnessed on September 11, then I'm willing to let the government listen to my phone calls and monitor my finances that they already do in the first place(IRS). My everyday life will not change by them listening in. 

Ok with Tim and the others they had enough to get a wire tap warrant.  SO GET ONE.  I am not saying not to allow this for the ones that need watching.  I just diagree with my right to illegal search and seziure, to be thrown aside.  YOU HAVE INFO GET A WARRANT.... pure and simple.

Tom

[2Gunz]

My problem with it is with more power comes more abuse of it.

Everybodys all fine and dandy untill they or somebody they love (who is innocent) is rotting in jail
and has no legal recourse, because they are a "threat to the nation" or some other bullshit.

These assholes are playing go fish, with OUR freedom, because WE let them, NOT because its going to fix
or solve anything.

[Troy]

That didn't take too long ...

Troy