Who has survived L4/L5 Fusion Back Surgery???

[RTPTRON]

I am a week away from this surgery and am very interested in hearing from survivors of this surgery.  My Sergent said that I could be released to go back to work in as little as three weeks.  I have been told by more than one person that it is more like three months if that.

If you have survived this surgery please PM me or just post a reply.  I am concerned about recovery time and difficulty because I am not ready to retire and really need to get back to work as soon as possible.

Sorry this is such a downer topic but I need this information.  I have a second opinion that reccomends a less invasive surgery but I could end up haveing to have the Fusion within the next few years anyway.

[Blown70]

To be honest from what I have seen the surgeon matters the most.  Not maybe what you want to hear, but working on the human body is much like anything else.  Depends who is doing the work!

I see the aftermath so to speak of surgery or the prior to surgery.  If you are truely needed it done well have it done.  Keep in mind you will in 5-10years time start to WEAR on the above joints so you may have round #2 in 5-10.  So my suggestion.  If you do not work out start after this and be VERY FAITHFULL   unless you enjoy invasive surgery.  I do not.

Tom

[Chargen69]

Whether you go back to work in 3 weeks or not, your not picking anything up over 10 pounds for a while after that.

[Chargerguy74]

where exactly is this located on the spine? I'm not sure where L4/L5 is but I have recently heard a bit about the "fusion" lately

[Blown70]

where exactly is this located on the spine? I'm not sure where L4/L5 is but I have recently heard a bit about the "fusion" lately

Lumbar vertebra (in simple terms your low back),  normally people have 5.  The L4 would be the 4th lumbar vertebra, and thus L5 would be the 5th. IIRC the L4/L5 is the most common herniation of a disc and likely fused.  Next would be L5-S1.  Guess what S1 refers to the first sacral segment.

Years of cadaver lab paying off.... 605 muscles in the human body.  206 bones.  Any other trivia for me..... BTW the bones can vary.

[Chargerguy74]

Ok, I know someone with that fusion then. The doctor reccomended it would be best to leave it alone. So I'm wondering, are there any problems to having this part of the back fused?

[Blown70]

Ok, I know someone with that fusion then. The doctor reccomended it would be best to leave it alone. So I'm wondering, are there any problems to having this part of the back fused?

Well again I point to my above post.  The area above and below will "wear" sooner due to the increased stress on them.  COST TO BENEFIT RATIO of what you want to deal with.  There are a ton of risk for this type of surgery.  The spine allows you a great amount of Range of Motion.  You are going to fuse and take that away.  Again is necessary in some cases.  However often there is a seceond surgery later for the area above or below usually around 5-10 years.

Tom

[Lightning]

I believe that's the same surgery my dad had done back in 2001.    His back hurts every once in a while, but he's not one that complains openly (if he does at all), so I dunno how bad it's been since he's had the surgery.  He had to wear a huge back brace for awhile though, almost a year IIRC.

for the record his injury happened in '98, it just took Worker's comp that long to pay for and get the surgery done.

[Blown70]

I believe that's the same surgery my dad had done back in 2001.    His back hurts every once in a while, but he's not one that complains openly (if he does at all), so I dunno how bad it's been since he's had the surgery.  He had to wear a huge back brace for awhile though, almost a year IIRC.

for the record his injury happened in '98, it just took Worker's comp that long to pay for and get the surgery done.

So expect round two in 2011.

[69_se_ron]

Hey RTPTRON,

sent you a p.m.

[max]

do what the surgeon says since there are a few different ways of dealing with this type of surgery.

i have been past the surgery state now since the late 1990's due to fighting with workers comp, so i have to deal with the pain everyday now.

[superblu72]

I've been checking out Artificial Disc Replacement now for awhile. You might be a good candidate for that. I exploded a disc in my neck and had it fused. Had to only to keep me from being paralyzed. I'll have problems and pain the rest of my life. No lifting over 20-25lbs and that's only occasionally. Now the MRI shows that the disc above and below are beginning to bulge. That's where ADR has it's advantage. Once the bad disc is replaced it carries the load as if you never had surgery. Where as w/fusion the disc above and below begin to carry the load of that part of the spinal cord and hence they start to bulge. Also ADR gives you almost 100% of your motion back and fusion depends. I have about 70% of my neck motion back. Won't ever get better, just worse!  Google ADR and you'll find lots of info on the subject. The Germans perfected it and the FDA is now allowing it in the U.S. My dad may have to have the same surgery as you and I loaded him up w/info on the subject and want him to check it out. Don't know where you live but there are hospitals all over the U.S. doing it now. You'll just have to do a little research. Good Luck!

[Blown70]

I've been checking out Artificial Disc Replacement now for awhile. You might be a good candidate for that. I exploded a disc in my neck and had it fused. Had to only to keep me from being paralyzed. I'll have problems and pain the rest of my life. No lifting over 20-25lbs and that's only occasionally. Now the MRI shows that the disc above and below are beginning to bulge. That's where ADR has it's advantage. Once the bad disc is replaced it carries the load as if you never had surgery. Where as w/fusion the disc above and below begin to carry the load of that part of the spinal cord and hence they start to bulge. Also ADR gives you almost 100% of your motion back and fusion depends. I have about 70% of my neck motion back. Won't ever get better, just worse!  Google ADR and you'll find lots of info on the subject. The Germans perfected it and the FDA is now allowing it in the U.S. My dad may have to have the same surgery as you and I loaded him up w/info on the subject and want him to check it out. Don't know where you live but there are hospitals all over the U.S. doing it now. You'll just have to do a little research. Good Luck!

Hmmm seems I mentioned that about the wear issue a few times.....

[max]

I've been checking out Artificial Disc Replacement now for awhile. You might be a good candidate for that. I exploded a disc in my neck and had it fused. Had to only to keep me from being paralyzed. I'll have problems and pain the rest of my life. No lifting over 20-25lbs and that's only occasionally. Now the MRI shows that the disc above and below are beginning to bulge. That's where ADR has it's advantage. Once the bad disc is replaced it carries the load as if you never had surgery. Where as w/fusion the disc above and below begin to carry the load of that part of the spinal cord and hence they start to bulge. Also ADR gives you almost 100% of your motion back and fusion depends. I have about 70% of my neck motion back. Won't ever get better, just worse!  Google ADR and you'll find lots of info on the subject. The Germans perfected it and the FDA is now allowing it in the U.S. My dad may have to have the same surgery as you and I loaded him up w/info on the subject and want him to check it out. Don't know where you live but there are hospitals all over the U.S. doing it now. You'll just have to do a little research. Good Luck!

Hmmm seems I mentioned that about the wear issue a few times.....

that's what i have been reading as well. nice idea but until that part is taken care of i don't think we will be seeing alot of it's use in this country.

[RD]

talk to steve p., he has done MUCHO research on this.

[AKcharger]

I hadL5 S1 Lumbar limectomy (sp?)  Aug 17 2002. That's where they cut out the offending disk material. while It wasn't a fusion here's some advice
- Take ALL of your convalescent leave. DO NOT GO TO WORK/LIFT ANYTHING TOO SOON let you back heal
- You'll feel great after surgery, all the pain will be gone (hopefully) DO NOT BE FOOLED give your self at least 6 months before doing "normal" stuff again
- Surgery is a good choice


I'm about 95% presurgery strengh and ability. my back pain was absolutely life changing, best thing I ever did

Good luck!

AK

[Steve P.]

THERE IS NO GOING BACK FROM A FUSION........   


I am no expert on the matter, but I did sleep at a Holliday Inn last night.. Not really... I wasted 2 discs in my lower back, (L4-5, L5-S1), nearly 9 years ago. I have been out of work that long. I have had (2) Disc-ectomy's and (2) Laminectomy"s. (not sure of spelling).. I also have a piece of bone, (fragment), floating around in my back that now and then like to land in a nerve and cause me excruciating pain.   2 surgeons wanted to fuse my spine. both gave me the same odds of going back to work in some capacity. NO WAY AS A NUCLEAR MECHANIC.    Both told me I had a 40% chance of the fusion taking. Those odds suck...   After doing some research I found that an extremely high number of people that have fusions are looking for new answers. The fusions worked for a while and then not or never took. VegasMike and I have an uncle in that boat. It worked for a while.  Long story short, you have to do your own homework. This is a good start. If I was you, I would put off the surgery date for a while. Do more homework. THERE IS NO GOING BACK FROM A FUSION... Look into THE TEXAS BACK INSTITUTE. They did all the testing for the FDA on PLASTIC DISC REPLACEMENT SURGERY..  Get in touch with them right away.   I want to have this surgery myself.


Lastly let me say this, I would not wish this kind of life on anyone.. Do your homework and get fixed right.     DON'T LET ANYONE TALK OR FORCE YOU INTO A SURGERY YOU DON'T WANT OR WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU......     THIS IS YOUR LIFE AND YOUR BODY.   TO THE DR.S YOU ARE BOTH MONEY AND A LAB RAT. TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY YOU ARE A NEEDLE IN THEIR ASS.......

[triple_green]

I went and saw Ron in the hospital yesterday. He had a rough first day, but was doing much better yesterday.

His goal is to drive his 68 R/T to the .com meet on July 22nd.

Way ta go Ron!!

3X

[Steve P.]

Here to a quick recovery.     Hell, they sent me home 12 hours after my first surgery and 18 hours after my second.. No fusion though... That's a bit more complicated...

[dart3404]

Hope you recover soon and it works out well for you. Don't do anything to soon.

My husband had this done in 2001 and he was doing good until he started rehab. They had him lifting to much weight the first day and the cable holding the fusion together broke. The Doctors had to go in and put some more bone in and it never healed properly. They want to do a total fusion with rods and screws but he wont do it the doctors can never give him any good odds for it to work. He is in pain 24/7 it's a suck deal...
Good luck hope you get back on your feet soon.

[Steve P.]

Well you should be home and in recovery by now. How are ya doing?? Feels like your ass weighs about 1000 pounds right?? It gets a little easier week after week. Before you know it your ass will only weigh 900 pounds.. JK...    The first week is the worst. I'm not fused, but I have had 2 majors on L4/5 and L5/S1. Even worse is mine were only 3 months apart.. Stupid workers comp screwed me bad... 

The best I can tell you is to let others do things for you. DO NOT LIFT ANYTHING..... When you start physical therapy, make sure they are paying attention to you and not bullshitting with others.. Leg lifts are killers if not done right. DON"T LET THEM DROP YOUR LEGS. This happened to me..  If they are not being professional about their job ask for someone else. I'm not kidding.. This is your back. They have no clue and don't give a shit. End of the day they are on their way home to their own life.. You still have to deal with your pain 24/7... ONLY DEAL WITH PRO'S...


Any questions IM me if you'd like..


Steve

[beadoo]

My L4 and L5 have been herniated for about 5 years now at first I had siactica so bad I could only stand up for about 30 seconds at a time. Before I went to see a suregon I researched the internet bigtime. Alot of experts say your body is an amazing thing , that if left alone the body will absorb the pretruding disc itself and the pain will subside. Well I went to see the surgeon anyways.. He was ready to schedule surgery and I said I wanted to wait a month or two. Low and behold the pain subsided on its own and I have not had suregey at all. I still have to be carefull  but I feel great !  Remeber surgeouns need to make a living also and sometimes they dont tell you the whole story....

[RTPTRON]

Hello All,  Today is my first access to the internet since my Surgery on Tuesday, June 27.  There are two people that had a big positive impact on me during this ordeal:

First was 69 SE Ron.  Ron sent me a PM that he had experience with back surgery and that if I wanted someone to talk with I could call him.  Well, Ron you will never know how much our conversations meant to me.  You took interest in a perfect stranger's situation with an empathy that I have never experienced before.  If you ever need anything you know how to get hold of me.  God bless you man.

And then there was Triple-Green.  I am working with my physical theripest the day after surgery:devil:when I look over to my hospital room door and there was Mark.  Now this is the day after surgery and I am not that well.  I am working very hard with the theripest telling her that I can't do this and that while at the same time she had me doing just that.  This was my first adventure outside my room using a walker and I think that the only reason I made it down the hall was because of Mark's visit.  The people that know Mark know that he keeps himself very busy working on a number of volunteer projects in his community and is very involved in his kids after school activities.  This guy took the time to come visit with me and that means a great deal to me.  My office sent a nice box of Sea's Candies but know one had time to visit.  God bless you man.

I want to thank Superblu 72 for the heads up on the artificial disk.  My surgeon is qualified to do these surgeries but they go in through the abdominal area and have to move some very large blood arteries and other, in my case, Lard filled body organs out of the way without damaging them.  For this and other reasons they do not reccomend this surgery for people over 50.  Most are done for younger patients with a healthy spine other than the one area in question.

Blown 70, thanks for your knowledge of our anatomy.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this post.

On Tuesday morning, June 27th I checked into Valley Medical Center for L4/L5 Fusion using a lot of titanium screws and appliances and some donor bone from someone who was kind enough to leave it behind.  The surgery itself took three and a half hours.  It was even more extensive than they thought.

I woke up in the OR recovery room in some serious pain and not remembering what the hell was going on.  They had to hold me down until I got my bearings and knew what had happened to me.  My first few hours were involved in pain management.  They do a great job with that.  Your IV fountain includes a little button that you can push up to every 8 minutes and get a quick little hit and all is cool for oh, about 8 more minutes.  You have your IV going and a tube hooked up so you don't have to get up to piss.  You have oxygen and you are a way too drugged up to give a crap.   They did not try to get me up the first day.  They were very busy checking my vitals every few minutes.  That night when the nurses were rolling me over to check my dressing something POPPED in my lower back that shot my pain up into the 11s that I was convinced that my back had broken and that I would be in life support for the rest of my life.

The day after surgery they get me busy fairly early on.  I spent a lot of time telling my doctor and anyone else that would lesson that my back was broken while checking out the dressing and that I would not be able to participate in any physical activity that day.  It took them most of the morning to get me to a point where I understood that I was infact going to have to participate.  It took what seemed like forever to get me to the point where I could sit up with my legs out of the bed in a position to stand up using a walker.  After that it was small trips to the bath room even though I was still hooked up so there was no good reason other than torsure for me to go.  I guess I don't really know more about what I can do than the theripest.

Thursday was an easy day with the theripest teaching me how to dress myself at home using some little tools that were kind of cool.  You know, hooks and tubes and stuff.  Kathy bought these items.  I developed a temperature a little over 100 and there was suddenly some urgency in keeping me comfortable and well hydrated.  I was fine by Friday.

Friday was check out so I had to learn how to deal with steps.  All of our bed rooms are up stairs.  This was not that bad.

Saturday and Sunday were not fun days at home.  They sent me home with the damn drug store and I decided to take all of this stuff according to their recommendations of course.  I did not have a lot of pain but I had no idea where I was most of the time and when Kathy was catching up on old movies I became a character in every damn one of them.  I spend all of my time falling a sleep, sleeping or waking just to go right back to sleep.  My incision drain went active again and made one hell of a mess in bed and I was put back on an antibiotic.

The last few days have been much better.  Everyday is a magnitude better than the day before.  I know I have a long recovery ahead.  I have pain all of the time but I cut out the damn crazy drugs and now when I hurt I know exactly what time it is and where the hell I am.  The drunks make all of the difference early on but get off them as soon and you can stand it.

I am sorry for the long response and all of the misspelled words and poor English but I am a little tired right now.  Thanks again everybody.

[Steve P.]

It's good to hear that you're home and all went well. Do your therapy, but keep it light. Don't let anyone push you.. 

I'm worried about what you said about the nurses rolling you over and you HEARING something in your back..  I would demand x-rays ASAP.  Too much goes on in hospitals and other facilities that should not. They know it and we pay. I will pay for the rest of my life for others mistakes. They go home and never think about it again. I live with it every day. Get the x-rays...

Again, be very careful with everything and don't let ANYONE FORCE you to over work your body. You will be the one to pay for it!! 

Keep us updated..

[8WHEELER]

HI RON   

Holy cow. I never did see this thread till now    I hardly ever look in the off topic section, and this
proves it. Ron I sent you an email the day before you went into the Hospital, I don't think you got it, I wished
you well, but I did not know what Hospital you were going to, so I had no idea where you were.

As I think you know, I have three vertebra's in my neck fused together, so I can relate that's for sure. Glad
to hear your home    I would much rather be home than in the Hospital, except I still miss most
of the nurses they were so cool I do miss them. I would love to come visit, but I can't get up one stair, maybe
you can get out soon and I can take you to lunch   

Anyway I am so happy you are doing OK, and the fact that you are home already is a good sign that they think
you are healing well, and working hard to get back to better than new right   

Get well soon my friend, give me a buzz when you have time and feel up to it. Sorry I did not get ahold of you
before you went in, I did try, I would have given you a visit and helped you in rehab    it can be fun 

Your Friend Dan