Rack's stupid questions thread...

[Rack]

Hello, I introduced myself in the engine/transmission forum a few days ago.

Before I get to my stupid questions (there will be more added as I come to more things I don't know about) let me give you a little background.


There is none. I've never restored a car before. The most I've ever done to a car was change the oil... once.


There's a lot of terminology I don't understand, not to mention actual methods of restoring parts and many other things.

But I bought myself a '68 Charger and I'm going to resto/mod it. A complete matching numbers car is not possible so I will be "personalizing" the car.

The reason I'm doing this is in memory/honor of my nephew Brandon (RIP). He and I always wanted to fix up one of these old cars. We'll never be able to do it now due to him being murdered at the age of 19. I will get this done for him.

Obviously motivation isn't a problem. A lot of people get these old cars "planning" on restoring them, but never get around to it. That's not gonna happen with me. It would be an insult to the memory of my nephew.

Not only will I get it done, but it's not gonna be a crap job either. It's gonna be a "better then new" ass kicking charger by the time I get done with it.

Eventhough I have almost no knowledge of this sort of work, don't think I'm being naive here. I understand the task at hand is going to be a ton of hard work. There will be many obstacles to overcome and many unexpected disappointments. I know this, and am ready for it.

I've already gained a ton of knowledge just from reading many old threads at these forums. TONS of information. You people know your stuff. And you also seem willing to share that knowledge. That's a good thing for a novice (if that) like myself. All your tips/advice/knowledge will be greatly appreciated and will aid in the resto/mod of one ass kicking 1968 Charger!

Anyway, now on to some questions (like I said before, more questions will be added when I come across something I don't understand 100%).

One more thing before I get to the questions: I know there is a search feature. I will use it often. But if I still have questions about something I don't want to bump a 6 month old thread just to get it answered. In my case, there could very well end up being 15 old threads bumped, instead of jsut this one thread. Hope that isn't a problem. Like I said, I'll do searches before I ask a question here. If I still have questions after I find an answer, I'll post a link to that thread here and ask the specific questions regarding what I found in that thread.


1. What exactly is a self etching primer and what does it do? When I think "etching" I think of some kind of artistic scratching or something (bad explanation).

2. Ok, this one has really been screwing with my head. Seems there's a ton of different ways to sand, fill, sand, etc... your body work. Let's say I have sanded my car all the way down to the metal... what's next? I've read about fillers, puttys, epoxy (putty or primer?), por-15, encapsulators, etc... it's all very confusing. Is there a different "sequence" to follow when doing the outside of the car then doing the engine bay? The interior? Under the car?

3. Speaking of sanding, is it better to sand the whole car at once, or to remove a fender and just concentrate on that? Then move on to a door, etc...?

4. My charger is missing the driver's side quarter glass (the mechanism may also be damaged). I've had a hard time finding replacement glass and the mechanism. Is this gonna be extremely difficult to find and is it gonna cost me 2 arms and 37 legs to buy it?

5. What is metal etching? <<<  I may have got some terms mixed up there, does metal etching even exist?

6. Por-15, is it only used on rusted surfaces, or can it be used on clean metal as a way to prevent rust?

7. My charger is gonna be completely high gloss black. I'm not a big fan of chrome unless it's on an engine or the wheels. My charger will have no chrome trim, bumpers, or anything else other then the wheels and the gas cap. How would I go about painting the trim? Just sand it down like I would the sheet metal, fill it, etc... then paint it? Or since it's a different type of material would I need to go about it a different way?

8. I went out and bought myself a big ass air compressor at home depot. It's a Husky 7 Peak HP 60 Gal Husky Compressor Model VT6314. I read somewhere that the CFM of your compressor should be higher then that of your most powerful tool. I also read that when doing a lot of sanding it's good to have a big tank so you can work continously. This tank has a big enough tank (60 gallons) and the CFM is solid. However, it's a big sucker and will be difficult to move it around. Should I build some kind of "roller" for it? Any ideas how to do so? Should I set it up where I only use one tool at a time, or should I set up one of those copper lining things that have several different tools hooked up?

9. Since I'm gonna have black bumpers, how would I go about getting rid of the chrome? Or should I just paint over them? My car didn't have bumpers so it seems kind of a waste of money getting a "new" bumper, taking off the chrome (sanding?) then repainting it. Is powder coating the bumper an option? I just bought myself a powder coating kit (for the little things) but obviously I can't fit a bumper in my oven. I know a guy that knows a guy so I could get access to an oven big enough. Would that be my best option?


As I mentioned in a thread in the engine forum, I'm trying to prepare a "Game plan" for the restoration, but there's a lot of little questions and big questions I need answered before I add to the "Plan".


That's all I have for now. When I come across more stuff I need to know I'll do a search. If I don't find what I'm looking for or don't fully understand what I've found I'll add questions here.

I created a site to monitor my progress. Obviously I haven't done anything to the car yet, but there are some pics of what the car looks like now.

Here's the link...

http://home.stx.rr.com/rackcharger/


Thank you all for your advice, tips, expertise, and most of all your patience.

[RallyeMike]

What exactly is a self etching primer and what does it do? When I think "etching" I think of some kind of artistic scratching or something (bad explanation).

>Its a base primer that helps adhesion and prevents corrosion. It should be used anytime you take the car down to bare metal.

Ok, this one has really been screwing with my head. Seems there's a ton of different ways to sand, fill, sand, etc... your body work. Let's say I have sanded my car all the way down to the metal... what's next? I've read about fillers, puttys, epoxy (putty or primer?), por-15, encapsulators, etc... it's all very confusing. Is there a different "sequence" to follow when doing the outside of the car then doing the engine bay? The interior? Under the car?

>The best sequence in my opinion is to entirely strip the car down to the shell. Then do the body work all the way through paint, then suspension, running gear, and last -  interior. When you dis-assemble, take lots of pix and bag and tag everything so you know where it came from. It gets hard to remember every detail a year later. I often use felt markers to write up/down left/right fron/back on parts too. You can make some expensive and unapealing mistakes doing body and paint the first time, so If you plan on doing it yourself, study carefully and practice on some junk parts before you get too far into things. The key to a good job is prepartion, preparation, preparation and hours of block sanding. The best laid paint in the world won't cover up anything that's not perfect, especially dark colors like black. Body and paint work has a lot of little tricks and steps that have to be followed to get a good job out of it. I would serously consider farming out at least the final preparation and paint out to a shop. 

Speaking of sanding, is it better to sand the whole car at once, or to remove a fender and just concentrate on that? Then move on to a door, etc...?

>I depends on how far you want to take it. You said "Far", so I would disassemble the car to a shell deliver it to a media-blaster to strip it down to bare metal inside and out. The cost is actually quite reasonable if you look into it, plus they are able to get into areas that are difficult to sand.

My charger is gonna be completely high gloss black. I'm not a big fan of chrome unless it's on an engine or the wheels. My charger will have no chrome trim, bumpers, or anything else other then the wheels and the gas cap. How would I go about painting the trim? Just sand it down like I would the sheet metal, fill it, etc... then paint it? Or since it's a different type of material would I need to go about it a different way?

>If you take chome parts to a chrome shop, they can strip it down to bare metal for you. If you want the paint to match the rest of the car, just prep and paint it like any other part of it. It's still steel, just like the rest of the body. I can't help you with painting stainless parts.

I went out and bought myself a big ass air compressor at home depot. It's a Husky 7 Peak HP 60 Gal Husky Compressor Model VT6314. I read somewhere that the CFM of your compressor should be higher then that of your most powerful tool. I also read that when doing a lot of sanding it's good to have a big tank so you can work continously. This tank has a big enough tank (60 gallons) and the CFM is solid. However, it's a big sucker and will be difficult to move it around. Should I build some kind of "roller" for it? Any ideas how to do so? Should I set it up where I only use one tool at a time, or should I set up one of those copper lining things that have several different tools hooked up?

>"Big Ass" Is that a new brand ?     No need to move the compressor around unless you have two garages!. Set yourself up with some reel hoses and a good water separator and run it accross the ceiling with a drop to the work area. Put quick connectors on all your tools - do you really have a need to have more than one tool working at a time?

Is powder coating the bumper an option?

> I assume you want the bumpers to match the paint. The best option then would be to paint them, but you could certainly have a powder coater do them for you.

>This is a pretty big project to take on for a first timer with a just a few oil changes under your belt. I admire your drive! An old shop manual for your car would be invaluable to you. You can also get a lot of support and make some contacts for outsourcing work and finding local parts by hooking up with a car club in your area.

[terrible one]

Hey man, just wanted to wish you look and tell you that I respect your reasons for taking on such a project. As a 16 year old who got into this hobby with absolutely no experience only a year ago, I can truthfully tell you not to worry. I have gained a massive amount of knowledge thanks to forums like this one. I am in love with forums now because they offer such massive help. As you stated and have noticed, this forum is great at doing just that. Just wanted to tell you that with the time and money it won't be as hard as you think!

[Rack]

Its a base primer that helps adhesion and prevents corrosion. It should be used anytime you take the car down to bare metal.

So the self etching primer should be the first thing to touch the metal after I sand it down?

The best sequence in my opinion is to entirely strip the car down to the shell.

That's the plan. I'm even looking into building a rotisierre (or having one built). I want to get to every possible inch of the car. A rotisierre would make my back and neck very happy.


Block Sanding... how many "blocks" will I need? I've noticed there's many different shapes and sizes, I'm sure I'll figure out which one to use where, but how many will I need? Or is it just a matter of go with what you got till it gets damaged, then get a new one? I guess I can get two of each type. Better to have and not need then to need and not have.

depends on how far you want to take it. You said "Far", so I would disassemble the car to a shell deliver it to a media-blaster to strip it down to bare metal inside and out. The cost is actually quite reasonable if you look into it, plus they are able to get into areas that are difficult to sand

Yeah I had planned on that. I know a guy that knows a guy locally that uses baking soda to strip down cars. From what I've read here using baking soda is extremely messy. Maybe I can cut a deal if I offer to clean up the mess. lol

If you take chome parts to a chrome shop, they can strip it down to bare metal for you. If you want the paint to match the rest of the car, just prep and paint it like any other part of it. It's still steel, just like the rest of the body. I can't help you with painting stainless parts.

Ok that sounds easy enough. I do plan on farming out the car for final prep and paint (I know a guy that owns a paint & body shop, but I have to take a look at his work first), but I want the guy to have to do as little work as possible so he can concentrate on the paint part. That'll be up to me to get the car as perfect as possible. For stuff like trim pieces, would I be able to paint those myself? Or better to prep them and take them to him (separated from the car)? Is it better to take the car assembled, or in pieces (A hood here, a couple of doors there, a fender, trunk lid, etc...)? I guess it's a bit early to be asking that question.

>"Big Ass" Is that a new brand ?

No, but if you ever open an air compressor building business, you have my expressed written consent to use that name. 

No need to move the compressor around unless you have two garages!

Actually I don't have any garages (the two car garage was converted to a den a few years ago). I have a spot put aside for the air compressor though. It's even be protected from the elements. I am worried about the heat though. It gets extremely hot around here. Just two days ago it was 107 degrees, and it's not even our hot month yet! Would there be any danger if the compressor got too hot? Like I said, it won't be in direct sunlight and it'll be protected from rain.

About the garage, although I don't have my own garage I do have access to a shop/garage. I work security at a used car lot. The manage has given me permission to use the garage while I "work" at night (graveyard shift). So it works out real well for me, I can work on my car in a fully equipped auto garage (has a lift, but I still want to put a rotissiere out there) and get paid to do it. 

I'd just have to load the car on a trailer, take it down, put it on the lift, etc... by myself. I also have access to a trailer that I can use at any time. I'm very lucky in that regard.

Set yourself up with some reel hoses and a good water separator and run it accross the ceiling with a drop to the work area. Put quick connectors on all your tools - do you really have a need to have more than one tool working at a time?

What is a water separator? I've had my air compressor sitting in my den for two weeks cuz I have no idea how to hook it up. 

As you stated and have noticed, this forum is great at doing just that. Just wanted to tell you that with the time and money it won't be as hard as you think!

Money?! I figured I'd need no more then $500-$600 for the whole job! 

j/k. "not as hard as you think" is good to hear. I've been doing a lot of reading (books and articles) about car restorations, but my brain learns better with physical demonstrations. But more then one form of instruction works best for anyone IMO. I figure that reading the books/articles will actually get my brain there, watching some restoration DVDs will push the knowledge a little further, the detailed information I get here will help "clean up the knowledge" and actually doing it will get me over the hump.


I'm gonna get started setting up my air compressor now. Hopefully I'll be able to use it soon.


Thank you terrible one and RallyeMike for your replies. I've already got a few cloudy spots cleared up.

[RallyeMike]

I have always painted the etching primer, then placed the filler over it, roughening the primer with sand paper for adhesion. Follow the directions on the products you buy.

The "blocks" are semi-flexible rubber pads or whatever you want to use to from/hold the sandpaper. They last forever - it's the sandpaper you will go through.

When you find the painter, ask him how he wants the car delivered. It's best in my opinion to deliever the body re-assembled if only loosly. That way you know you have all the parts you want painted AT the shop.

A water separator is a device that mounts inline of your air hose and removes the water that condensensses on the inside of your compressor. If you don't run one, the water gets blown through your air tools and paint gun abd ruins your day. Very moderate short term use on air tools can get by without one, but not for what you plan to do. Buy a good one if you are going to paint.

Youre tackling this without a garage where it's 107? What are you - half Charles Bronson and half camel ?!~   

[Rack]

Youre tackling this without a garage where it's 107? What are you - half Charles Bronson and half camel ?!~   

Haha! Most of the work will be done after 10 pm. The work I do during the day will be done in my den (in a small corner of what used to be the garage). I'll rarely ever be working outside during the day. Not during the summer anyway. I don't have a "Deathwish"!

I can't stand hot weather. That's why I love my job. Work till 6 or 7 am, then sleep through half the day and avoid as much 100+ degree weather as possible.

[Rack]

Another stupid question...


I've been reading the "Paint & Body" forum and I kept coming across the term "Cutting". What does that mean?

[MichaelRW]

I'm assuming you mean cutting when it is associated with buffing. It means sanding the paint to remove imperfections and then polishing to remove the sand scratch marks. This will result in a smooth, shiny painted surface.

A good reference book is the one written a couple years ago by Larry Lyles. It's called Project Charger: The Step-By-Step Restoration of a Popular Vintage Car. This will provide you with the basics. It's available from Amazon.com for about $15.

[Rack]

I'm assuming you mean cutting when it is associated with buffing. It means sanding the paint to remove imperfections and then polishing to remove the sand scratch marks. This will result in a smooth, shiny painted surface.

A good reference book is the one written a couple years ago by Larry Lyles. It's called Project Charger: The Step-By-Step Restoration of a Popular Vintage Car. This will provide you with the basics. It's available from Amazon.com for about $15.

Yeah I meant to add "buffing" to my post but for some dumb reason (maybe cuz it was 5:40 in the morning) I couldn't think of the word.

A good reference book is the one written a couple years ago by Larry Lyles. It's called Project Charger: The Step-By-Step Restoration of a Popular Vintage Car. This will provide you with the basics. It's available from Amazon.com for about $15.

Actually I'm already reading that book.

I'm about halfway through it now. It's really helped me understand bodywork a lot better then I did before. Last night I read the chapter about replacing/swapping the trunk floor. Before reading that I thought doing that work would be incredibly difficult. After reading it it seems like it would actually be pretty easy (except for the welding).

Very good book for somebody like me.


About the cutting, yeah that makes sense. I should of figured that out on my own (it was 5:40 am and I hadn't slept. Sometimes the graveyard shift sucks).

I had been under the impression that if you "screwed up" the paint job you had to redo the whole section again. Didn't realize you could fix it with "cutting and buffing".

Thanks

[Rack]

Yet another stupid question:

What's the difference between a big block, small block, wedge, etc...?

[MichaelRW]

I had been under the impression that if you "screwed up" the paint job you had to redo the whole section again. Didn't realize you could fix it with "cutting and buffing".


Cutting & buffing will only fix certain paint problems. It's used mostly for orange peel & minor dust.

[Ghoste]

Smallblock, bigblock and so on are somewhat loosely defined terms but in Chrysler parlance they can mainly be separated by engine architecture.  For the sake of keeping it simple, muscle era Mopars such as your 68 Charger would list the smallblocks as the 273, 318, 340, and 360.  The big blocks of that era would be the 361, 383, 400, 413, 426, and 440.  There are others of both and all sorts of permutations but these are the ones most of the people are thinking of when they use these terms.  The wedge refers to the shape of the combustion chamber in wedge engines.  If you saw the head in half from side to side and look at the cross section, the chamber will appear wedge shaped.  A Hemi will appear half rounded or "hemishperical".  I'm giving you the super condensed version but it'll get you off and running and don't worry, you'll pick up the lingo real quick.  Buy any Mopar magazines you can and ask lots of questions.  Ther are several good books on the market as well which have some excellent Mopar history in them as well.

[Rack]

Smallblock, bigblock and so on are somewhat loosely defined terms but in Chrysler parlance they can mainly be separated by engine architecture.  For the sake of keeping it simple, muscle era Mopars such as your 68 Charger would list the smallblocks as the 273, 318, 340, and 360.  The big blocks of that era would be the 361, 383, 400, 413, 426, and 440.  There are others of both and all sorts of permutations but these are the ones most of the people are thinking of when they use these terms.  The wedge refers to the shape of the combustion chamber in wedge engines.  If you saw the head in half from side to side and look at the cross section, the chamber will appear wedge shaped.  A Hemi will appear half rounded or "hemishperical".  I'm giving you the super condensed version but it'll get you off and running and don't worry, you'll pick up the lingo real quick.  Buy any Mopar magazines you can and ask lots of questions.  Ther are several good books on the market as well which have some excellent Mopar history in them as well.

Ok so my 440 (when I get one) will be a big block. Gotcha. 


Here's another question:


What is a "Dana"?

I know it's the ... axle area (Differential?), but not sure of specifics. I first thought "Dana" was a brand name. Still pretty confused about this one.

[Brock Samson]

dana info:
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/64159/

[terrible one]

Nice link Strat.

Rack,

This is helpful too:

[Rack]

Thanks, Brock and Terrible.


Very good info. That 8 3/4" looks like the one on my car.

[Rack]

Ok after reading those articles it seems a Dana isn't what I'll be needing. I'm looking to build a high powered street car, but not at the level of an actual drag car. I mean, if I happen to pull up next to some rice burner and he wants to race, well what can I do? What CAN I do?

But as far as actually going to a track and racing against a car likely filled with steroids (aka NOS), no thanks.

[Ghoste]

The 8.75 will take a lot more abuse than it's often given credit for so you'll likely be fine with it.  Dana was an outside supplier (still are when they aren't in bankruptcy proceedings) of various drivetrain components for all of the automotive industry.  The Dana 60 was only one of several axles used by Chrysler over the years.

[Rack]

Dang Ghoste you replied right when I was about to add another question. 



Yeah I'll stay with the one I have. Gives me something else to use my new powder coater on too.




Ok next stupid question:


Is a supercharger and a "Blower" the same thing? I told my friend the other day that it was, then I started thinking about it and figured I was probably wrong about that.


I know a "Blower" is exactly what it's called, a device that blows air into the carb at high speeds (or am I wrong?).

I always though a supercharger was the same thing, if it isn't, what exactly does a supercharger do?

[Ghoste]

Same thing.  Blower is a nickname they attached to the Rootes style superchargers you see on top of Top Fuel dragster engines.  It's also sometimes called a "Jimmy" blower from the early days of hot rodding when they would pirate them from GMC diesel truck engines.
More loosely today, supercharger and blower get applied to turbo's as well sometimes and it's not technically wrong but generally, it has always been accepted that a blower or supercharger was engine driven.

[Rack]

Same thing.  Blower is a nickname they attached to the Rootes style superchargers you see on top of Top Fuel dragster engines.  It's also sometimes called a "Jimmy" blower from the early days of hot rodding when they would pirate them from GMC diesel truck engines.
More loosely today, supercharger and blower get applied to turbo's as well sometimes and it's not technically wrong but generally, it has always been accepted that a blower or supercharger was engine driven.

Damn I was actually right!

I guess I'm a natural. 

[mikepmcs]

Rack
Sorry about your kin, where are you in texas?
Do you have numbers for this car like a VIN and the fender tag that can be decoded? How's about a build sheet(broadcast sheet).  If it's the original interior look under your front seats and then lift the back seat up and look under there.  If there is a piece of paper intact under one of those seats, stop, take the seat out and surgically remove the piece of paper. That will tell you a lot about your car or we can decode it for you here.   Your fender tag would be on the inside drivers fender near the battery.  Has a bunch of lines with letters and numbers on it.
It looks like you are being pretty well taken care of so far with questions, that's good, this place is awesome. 
Did you ever get that compressor hooked up?
Welcome to the site.

v/r
Mike

[terrible one]

Rack,

Do you have any more pictures of your Charger?

[Rack]

Rack
Sorry about your kin, where are you in texas?
Do you have numbers for this car like a VIN and the fender tag that can be decoded? How's about a build sheet(broadcast sheet).  If it's the original interior look under your front seats and then lift the back seat up and look under there.  If there is a piece of paper intact under one of those seats, stop, take the seat out and surgically remove the piece of paper. That will tell you a lot about your car or we can decode it for you here.   Your fender tag would be on the inside drivers fender near the battery.  Has a bunch of lines with letters and numbers on it.
It looks like you are being pretty well taken care of so far with questions, that's good, this place is awesome. 
Did you ever get that compressor hooked up?
Welcome to the site.

v/r
Mike

Hi, Mike. I'm in Laredo, TX. The car has the vin numbers, it's an XS29 car (can't remember the rest). No fender tag. I looked for the build sheet, but nothign was there. The front and back (and trunk) have a bunch of "gunk" all painted in it pretty thick so it might be there, but it's buried for the time being. The car had no front seats. The rear seats didn't have any paper underneath them. I'll go double check just to be sure though.

Still don't have the compressor hooked up but someone is gonna come by tomorrow and help me out with a temporary set up since I might be moving soon. The good thing is the place I move to should have a garage. 

Yeah everyone here has been very helpful. I've already learned A LOT here. I got a long way to go though.

Do you have any more pictures of your Charger?

Yeah I have a few. Did you want a picture of anything in particular or just what I've got?

[mikepmcs]

just throw up what you got, we like to see it all.
it will come in handy when you are asking questions about a certain area.
v/r
Mike