What should a transmission rebuild include exactly?

[protocolski]

I have a 72' SE, with a 400, and an Auto 727. Ihave called for prices on a rebulid, if i remove it and found prices ranging from $300 with new torque converter all the way up to $800 with and with out conveter. I am wondering what exactly should i get in a rebuild, what parts, ect. I want to ensure i dont get screwed over. The tranny is poorly shifting, and has misc leaks, including bell housing and looks like a rear output seal.  I also have a wierd vibration which i am 90% sure is coming form teh tranny,m as it feels liek its right under me whenim driving, and i got a new drive shaft made, which reduced some of teh vibrations, but theres still a distinct vib. Thnaks!

[John_Kunkel]

The word rebuild is most often misused, the common repair of an automatic transmission would be better described as an "overhaul".

An overhaul should include the replacement of all normal wear items like clutches, bands, seals, gaskets and bushings.  Many "hard parts" aren't considered part of a normal overhaul, some shops will charge a reasonable fee for the overhaul and will charge extra if any hard parts need replacement while some shops will inflate their fee to cover the amortized cost of hard parts replacement. Some shops will charge an inflated fee AND will also charge for needed hard parts.

It's always to ask for a detailed list of what will be done for the money charged and what is extra. A new or overhauled converter should be considered a must and I would have a quality reprogramming kit installed. Also the price will depend on whether you remove it and take it for a bench overhaul or whether the shop removes/reinstalls it.

Did the vibration just start or has it been with the car for a while? If it's been there all along it could be an incorrectly weighted converter, cast crank 400's need weights on the converter.

[protocolski]

I bought the car about 5 years ago while still in high school. The car has had the vibration ever since i bought it.  John, you said

"If it's been there all along it could be an incorrectly weighted converter, cast crank 400's need weights on the converter."

I assume the only way of knowing if the guy who put the 400 in actaully put the need weights on the torque converter is to open it up, right?  What should a solid rebuild with new converter cost?  as i said before, some guy quoted me $300-$350 WITH new converter, i am very weary of this guy.  I would be R+Ring it myslef, as i know that accounts for a lot of money.

THANKs EVERYONE!

[Silver R/T]

I dont see how you can rebuild 727 for $300, FastbackJon had over $600 on his. Ive invested ~1k just for rebuild, then the cost of the transgo TF2 shift kit

[John_Kunkel]

I dont see how you can rebuild 727 for $300, FastbackJon had over $600 on his.

I can overhaul a 727 with good quality parts, a TF-2 kit and include a rebuilt stock converter for way less than $300.

Damaged hard parts and added trick parts raise the price but I'm talking normal overhaul.

[ChargerBill]

The ONLY way I see someone rebuilding a tranny for $300 is if the parts are supplied by the customer and the guy doing the rebuild is a buddy cutting a deal. I have nearly $350 in parts (TF2 kit and Blue Plate clutch kit) for a basic street performance rebuild and still need to buy a torque converter....that ought to tell you something.

Now $300 for an overhaul...sure, I could see that.

[694spdRT]

About 5 years ago the 727 rebuild in my plow truck was around $400 + a shift kit but, I did the pulling and putting back in. I think my dad's truck was around $650 installed with a new tranny cooler from the same place.

[John_Kunkel]

The ONLY way I see someone rebuilding a tranny for $300 is if the parts are supplied by the customer and the guy doing the rebuild is a buddy cutting a deal. I have nearly $350 in parts (TF2 kit and Blue Plate clutch kit) for a basic street performance rebuild and still need to buy a torque converter....that ought to tell you something.

Now $300 for an overhaul...sure, I could see that.

As I stated earlier, although widely used, the term "rebuild" is not really correct for the refurbishing normally done to a TF. Rebuilding entails major component replacement whereas an "overhaul" entails only the replacement of normal wear items such as friction material, seals, rings, etc.

Here's my cost for a normal street performance overhaul: (parts acquired at Makco) http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=A727


$88- Master overhaul kit which includes Red Eagle clutches, Kolene steels, gaskets/seals and a ring kit.

$13- Front flex band

$26- Rear band (often not needed)

$13- Bushing kit

$2-  Filter

$55- TF-2 reprogramming kit.

$13- Freight

Total- $210

I can have a stock converter rebuilt locally for $40 (a converter from Makco is about $30 more), so the actual cost in parts for a normal street performance overhaul is right at $250 which is "well under $300" where I come from.

Of course, if one makes unnecessary upgrades to such things as Blue Plate clutches, etc. the cost increases.

[ChargerBill]

Well had I known that Blue Plates were unecessary I could have saved some cash. I figured I needed them because my intention was to be around 550hp or better. Aside from that, it seems like the prices you are paying for parts are far less than what I've seen, but then I'm probably paying for the priviledge of living in Califrickinhornia....

[John_Kunkel]

Aside from that, it seems like the prices you are paying for parts are far less than what I've seen, but then I'm probably paying for the priviledge of living in Califrickinhornia....

Even using parts from the Transtar store in Sacramento I would be hard pressed to spend $300.

[Silver R/T]

Aside from that, it seems like the prices you are paying for parts are far less than what I've seen, but then I'm probably paying for the priviledge of living in Califrickinhornia....

Even using parts from the Transtar store in Sacramento I would be hard pressed to spend $300.

you're not including labor costs that include removal/install of the trans. For yourself I guess you could have it rebuilt for under $300 with stock parts. For someone else it would be way more than $300, especially if adding TF2 kit, performance clutches, synthetic fluid, etc.

[RD]

I am sure this all started from my post in businesses/services stating that I can do an "overhaul" for $300.00. 

Just as JK has stated, the parts do not equate to that much initial investment.  Dependant upon the use of the tranny equates to how much money you are spending.  Now, a stock "overhaul" will cost $88 for a kit from any local autoparts store sans the rear band (those are $35 from a local autoparts store, but I often pick them up for cheaper on ebay).  These kits include alto clutches and kolene steels, o-rings, rear and front seals, filter, gasket... you got it. 

Now I know some may say.. wth you going to use that stuff from that autoparts store for? well, I have rebuilt 727's that have been put behind 250hp - 550hp motors and the stock components hold up just fine.  I raced a 71 Charger with a 500hp 440 and used a stock overhaul kit and a 3 gear planetary and never had a single problem over 5 years of racing the darn thing (12.17 at 108mph on slicks).

I "could" charge more for an overhaul, but why?  If I invest a small amount in to the actual parts and charge an ungodly low price on labor for a guaranteed transmission, why worry?  I can understand questioning someone charging an overly high amount for a overhaul or rebuilt transmission, but why worry about someone charging too low of price? 

I thought that $300 was a fair price for all, especially since shipping will cost some dependent on where you live.  That way, the guys who cannot afford an overhauled transmission from the local tranny shop or buying a rebuilt one from an autoparts store AT LEAST have a cheaper alternative with the same warranty.  Can you beat that? Well, probably if you knew someone like JK locally who would be willing to do a tranny for you (speaking for him, I do not know if he would do that).  But not everyone knows someone like him or I locally.

The bottom line is this.  I get money for my services and the buyer gets a guaranteed transmission for a price that will not kill his bank account.  Sorry if I am going against the capitalistic norms, but, well... who cares?

[grdprx]

So, here's a silly question; but I don't know, so I have to ask.

I looked at Makco's web site, and they list the overhaul kit for a 62-70 and 71-up.

I have a 68 charger, but the transmission is from a 74.  Should I get the 71 & up kit?

Thanks for helping a novice!

[John_Kunkel]

You want the correct kit for the year of the transmission regardless of the year of the car it's in.

[Chatt69chgr]

I've got a bb 727 out of a 69 C-body and a bb 727 out of a 77 C-body.  they are both out of the vehicles and I was looking into the bell housing ends of each and noticed that the large flat surface in the back of the earlier transmission (where the input shaft comes out) appears to be aluminum where the same surface in the later transmission appears to be cast iron.  Were some of these made with aluminum and some cast iron.  Which is best for 2nd gen Chargers as far as strength, durability, etc.  Wasn't there a upgrade in the earlier 70's?  Seems I have read in some of the magazines about using certain newer stronger parts when rebuilding 727's.  Could someone shed some light on this.  Thanks.

[craigandlynda]

heres a thought- if you've got numerous complaints about the transmission, junk it. period. buy a refurbished one with a guarantee...that would eliminate a lot of possibilties of bad housings, pumps, and other parts that would be "extras"....maybe get a credit for the old core. and pay special attention to the balancing as was mentioned earlier- 400 cast crank motors NEED balanced converters...and be sure all weights are on converter..( i saw one one time that lost the "welded on" weight- was shaking pretty bad.

[grdprx]

Thanks a lot JK!

[375instroke]

Is the vibration speed related and power on/off sensitive, or is it RPM sensitive?

[craigandlynda]

comes and goes with rpm, and load can be a factor too...it can be a real shackle shaker

[John_Kunkel]

I was looking into the bell housing ends of each and noticed that the large flat surface in the back of the earlier transmission (where the input shaft comes out) appears to be aluminum where the same surface in the later transmission appears to be cast iron.  Were some of these made with aluminum and some cast iron. 

The surface you're looking at is the front pump housing, they are always cast iron but some shops paint them with an aluminum appearing paint.

Given the choice between a '69 and '77 BB 727 I'd go with the '77 because of the part throttle kickdown. The later trans needs some mods to shift as firmly as the earlier ones but a good reprogramming kit will address those issues.

[grdprx]

Another novice question.  What is the reporgramming kit?

[John_Kunkel]

A reprogramming kit is a more complex version of a simple shift kit or shift improver kit, the reprogramming kit addresses the "soft shift" issues engineered in at the factory; it  firms the shifts and increases longevity.

[gtx6970]

if you can find someone that says he'll rebuild it for $300 including parts, run away as fast as you can

if someone brings me one to bench build, I charge $200 plus parts, and parts costs can vary with type and style of kit  desired

[John_Kunkel]

It basically depends on what the builder is happy to put in his pockets. I, for example, tend to look at the number of dollars rather than the number of hours involved. At a smooth laid back pace I can do a 727 overhaul in about five hours.

If I can put $100 in my pocket for five hours of work I'm happy, if it were $200 I'd be happier and if it were $300 I'd be happier yet. Like Gordon Grecko said, "It's all about greed".