2 T-stats stucked on 8 months ( or any other problem ??? )

[Nacho-RT74]

What could be a reason to get 2 stucked T-stats in less than a year ?
I'm ussing water instead coolant... it could be rust ?


If so... is it posible fix it ? How or why a T-stat could be stuck ?

[dodge freak]

When you use straight water you need to add something to lube the T - stat and water pump, its by the anti-freeze if your stores sell it. Looks like milk, add that and it be fine. Change your T -stat to a Miiodon or Mr. Gasket high flow might help too but get some water lube for it.

[Chryco Psycho]

buy a good stat , Stant, Mr Gasket or Milodon
I have had 4 bad in 1 year

[TylerCharger69]

straight water??   I'd add in some coolant.   I use a 50/50 mix of coolant along with a bottle of Water Wetter.  That coolant helps keep the cooling system clean and rust free,  not to mention.....why is it called coolant??  Need some lubrication in there!!!

[Nacho-RT74]

OK, I now I made a mistake using only water, but some that I allways say, I HAVE TO DO, and allways let it go on, and go on, and go on...

The problem here is I never have found T-stats to my car... alll that I have found are smaller, no matter the brand. The only one I found is in fact without brand, and small size on opening valve.

Is the rust what stucks the valve or what else ? Maybe is possible try to fix it ?

Is Coolant and Antifreeze the same stuff ?

[nh_mopar_fan]

Yes.

Why are you using all water? You shouldn't be running straight water due to the lube issues that others have mentioned. You also should not run straight coolant either. It won't keep the cool as it should.

I remember one summer back in the day, my upper radiator hose went. I patched it up and filled the rad with water. Got a new hose and completely forgot that I had just water in the radiator...until one very cold January night.

Not an issue down in your part of the world but that was one of the more stupid things that I have done.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... I'll change the water, don't worry but...

It is posible to fix a T-Stat ? why or where stucks ? maybe is just rust what stuk it and I can try to release and clean it

[TylerCharger69]

Toss it and buy another one.   Yes...coolant and antifreeze are the same thing.

[TylerCharger69]

Again, with the coolant issue...Not only will it cause thermostat problems, it will cause your cooling system to rust out...i.e.  your radiator, hoses, and most likely your freeze plugs.  Those aren't much fun to change out especially if it's one in the back of the block, or one on the rear side of the heads.   I'd flush the entire system out, change the thermostat, and add 50/50 mix of water and coolant.

[Nacho-RT74]

Ok I just search the old one that stucked firts, hammered a little bit in case is somehow stucked, and put it on a bowl with boiling water, and t-stat opened... Don't know if enough ( around 2 milimeters ) since I don't know how much must open, but it opened.

I'll lubricate a little bit in case will open a little bit more.

[TylerCharger69]

Dude....spent five dollars and buy a new one!!!  If it's failing now...it will fail again!!!  I prefer a 180 degree myself

[Nacho-RT74]

Is not for the money, the problem is FIND IT, is they are not available here to BB Mopars. All that I find is smaller T-stats to modern cars. I think never were installed from factory thinking that we are on a tropical contry.

The only available is the same that I have got what it looks is a low quality one on same dealer... By the way, $10 hehehe, and as far I know they only have one last one in stock

I remove the second one, the one was actually installed on my car and ALSO WORKS, In fact opens more that the other one, Anyway, I dissasembled and grease it a little bit the rod that push the valve to open. Installed again once I checked that works on boling water... perfect.

question:
-degrees rate is stated when T-stats is wide opening or when starts to open ?

Last week and since new T-stat was intalled, I started the engine, and after 10 minutes warming or so, I had temp gauge needle quick up to  2/3 of scale and then suddenly go down to 1/3. Of course that is on the instant T-stat opened. Then on streets, temp gauge reads netween 1/3 and half of the way and allways keep on that rate... rarelly arrived to 2/3 of scale. Now since saturday noticed that gauge did read around 1/4-1/3 BUT Caracas is a Valley with lots of hills, similar to San Francisco... when I'm going up a hill ( or full gas pedal on highway), temp gauge goes up untill 2/3-3/4 of scale ( full gas pedal was 1/2 of read )... then on flat streets or going down the hill, again gets 1/4-1/3 of scale. Thats what did make think about somehow stucked/damaged T-stat with that kind of variations.

Today did what I explained above and still is the same with some exception, gauge did take more time to move needle...Damn, if is closing and opening perfect and reading is different that last week. While I was warming, I had radiator opened and water was not running, that it means closed T-stat. Once arrived home with 2/3 of scale, opened radiator cap and water was running, that it means open T-stat

question:
-WHICH READING IS THE WRONG ONE, the first one or the new second one since saturday ( or now )? was damaged since new and NOW is when is working ?

just to be sure... gauge reads are between 100ºF and 250ºF , being the intermediate marks 125º and 225ºF right ?

note... all readings are with a/c working

[dodge freak]

You might want to not use a t-stat and use the disc with a hole that goes where the t-stat goes. Not sure if you ever seen those. They come with differant size holes and you have to see what one works the best for you. Maybe even gut out a old t-stat and use that and see how it works. If you use nothing the engine will get too hot, the disks with holes slow the coolant down.

Yes I know a good t-stat is better, cause the engine warms up quicker but where he lives it is like Cuba and you have to do things differant. Good luck hope it works out good.

[TylerCharger69]

190 degrees is opyimal running temperature.    Man!!!   I can go to Autozone or wherever  and get those thermostats all day long!!!   It doesn't have to be anything extravagant.....I get them here for $4.29 plus tax.   They fit on many different cars!!!!   10 bucks is kinda high!!!  It's a very common part...and that's weird  that you can't find one.

[TylerCharger69]

well...if he cant get them....he cant get them...didnt realize  he was somewhere where availability  was a big issue

[Nacho-RT74]

question:
-degrees rate is stated when T-stats is wide opening or when starts to open ?


question:
-WHICH READING IS THE WRONG ONE, the first one or the new second one since saturday ( or now )? was damaged since new and NOW is when is working ?

just to be sure... gauge reads are between 100ºF and 250ºF , being the intermediate marks 125º and 225ºF right ?

[OttawaCharger]

Thermostats in proper working order, control only the minimum operating temperature at which engine coolant is allowed to heat. A properly operating thermostat has absolutely nothing to do with how hot the engine becomes. If you are experiencing an over heating concern, changing to a colder thermostat will not correct the condition, it only allows the coolant more time to over heat. A thermostat once fully open can do no more to control temperature the overheating cause lays somewhere else.

A thermostat has a metal (brass or stainless steel) valve operating open and closed by a temperature reacting spring. The spring is in the flow path of the heated coolant. Its cycling is determined by the temperature of the coolant it is in contact with, opening by small increments as the coolant starts to reach the rated temperature, closing down as the coolant becomes colder.

Thermostats have stock temperature tolerance variation up to + or -5* and will start to open at about 150*, completely open by 180*. At these operating temperatures, combustion by products and acids will be eliminated from the lubricating oil. Lower temperature or no thermostats can cause engine damage and loss of fuel economy. Sludge build up starves oil pumps and creates more wear.

Some believe that removing the thermostat completely can remedy over heating concerns. This can be deceiving, with out some flow control coolant can pass through the radiator without slowing enough to cool, returning to the engine hotter with each circuit of the liquid.

Usually washer type flow restrictions in place of the thermostat are only acceptable in racing applications. They can control neither minimum or maximum temperatures, only flow capability. The only exception is in racing application where it may become a restriction, to slow coolant flow through the radiator. You can see that removing a thermostat, going to a colder setting, or using flow restriction washers is not suitable for street driven cars.

A sticking thermostat is one that will over temp or under temp momentarily and then suddenly operate normally. Debris in the coolant can effect the thermostat operation. Mentioned earlier RTV, gasket parts, block casting wire, or hose parts all will cause thermostat problems also. Poorly maintained coolant or just using water can attack the thermostat damaging it and reducing it effectiveness. A sticking thermostat may cause the temperature to 'jump' instead of gradually change. Lastly, it's not only your thermostat that needs the lubrication from coolant but your water pump as well.

Sorry that was so long winded.  I got carried away. 

[Nacho-RT74]

so stated T-stat temp rate is widelly open. Then on boiling water as I checked on my cook what is around 95-100ºC ( what is around 195ºF ) my T-stat was good... is a 195ºF one, since started to open  around 10-15 seconds before water boiling.

but is normall then that variation going up a hill or High speeds... getting up to 2/3-3/4 of scale ?

[grouseman]

Some believe that removing the thermostat completely can remedy over heating concerns. This can be deceiving, with out some flow control coolant can pass through the radiator without slowing enough to cool, returning to the engine hotter with each circuit of the liquid.

I'll agree with most of what you said except the above quote.  Wrong.  While the water is in the rad cooling, other water is in the engine being heated.  You can't have it both ways.  If you want to transfer MORE heat, you must move MORE coolant - period. 

For Nacho's car, if he removes the 'stat and still overheats, it means his cooling capacity (radiator and pump) is not enough. 

By the way Nacho, is the support spring in the lower rad hose? 

[dodge freak]

No it is not, how old is the rad? Sounds like a clog up rad that needs a re-core. I think it pretty hot were you live, right. You need to have a nice clean rad with lots of air flow though it. If it was fine and has been get worst lately it very well could be a bad rad.

[Nacho-RT74]

By the way Nacho, is the support spring in the lower rad hose? 

THAT'S a good point... I think need a new one, plus a radiator cleaning. but the weird part was the SUDDENLY difference from one day to another

[dodge freak]

Well rads. don't get clog overnight, so I am with you on a bad T-stat, remember when its in a pot of water it has no persure on it, in the car it has 10-14 lbs of persure on it so don't think its -A ok- just because it open in a pot of water. If you have the stock fan sometimes the clutch slips bad and the fan doesn't spin as fast. The water pump should be ok, most of the time the bearings just go bad.

[Nacho-RT74]

yes that's what I think however, tested outside and works ( not sure about exact temp if matches with labeled temp but works ). Start cold engine and open radiator cap and water doesn't run...when I get home again, open radiator cap without turn off engine and water runs freely

[dodge freak]

You don't have to take the cap off just put your hand in the middle of the rad you should feel it be hot if the T-stat is close the rad will be cool. How do you get the cap off with out getting sprayed? There should be around 10 lbs of persure in the rad. if not you have a leak somewhere, maybe you are not loosing water but its not letting the persure build up. Wish I could meet you and see whats going on.

[Nacho-RT74]

How do you get the cap off with out getting sprayed?

it does with engine off, but not with engine running. I think someday in the past I made the same test with cap off while I was warming the engine, and once got operation temp rad started sprayed.

before the suddenly change of read I had gauge more at the middle of read on any moment. Now I have cooler readings on normal transit operation and hotter readings when I need torque. And as I stated, T-stat is working outside and apparently inside the car